I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Whole Food Vitamin C, Copper, Iron, and Morley Robbins
Hahaha š me too, re: vegetables. Hated them growing up, learned to like them because they were "healthy". I think cucumbers and raw carrots were the few I did enjoy. Raw carrots I ate in the stable when really hungry and that was the only option, every time I thought "they are actually not that bad", sweet and crunchy, but I didn't eat them under any other conditions (until I learned they were healthy š¤¦āāļø)
@jaj for some, boiled meat is easier to digest. You have probably already tried it, but I thought I'd point it out. Red meat constipates me, that is my battle. I eat it almost daily due to its benefits (which might be dumb since it goes against my "nature", I have always done best, poop wise, as a vegetarian ) still trying to figure out how to solve that problem, preferebly without supps.
@wavygravygadzooks IĀ think you are right. I think psychology has a lot to do with it. Also, intuitive feedback from the body is a factor. Low stomach acid tends to make people find meat less appealing, so Iāve been told, and it makes sense. I have a genetic tendency towards pyroluria which results in lack of B6 and zinc (therefore low stomach acid). When this was picked up, I was asked if I ate much meat and I said Iād been a pescatarian for 25 years, she said thatās probably your body veering away from meat as you canāt digest it. As a child I ate meat and no vegetables (apart from chips!). It was in my 20s that the meat aversion set in and it was while reading a book where the character went off certain foods, from memory, which fits with your psychology theory! I do take betaine-HCl and I find it very useful.
I am now eating meat, but I donāt eat a massive amount of it. Iām not eating enough, for example, to fulfill my daily choline needs. This has run me into trouble I now believe. I donāt think my stomach acid is robust enough to cope with a high meat diet and I prefer a more mixed one. This fits in with my life better as well. This is why Iām keen to understand the particular nutritional factors that make people avoid accumulating extra issues while detoxing vA. Does the high meat diet protect them from Ā the ādetox setbackā hole?
Andrew Baird has been researching choline and a choline deficiency fits with many of my symptoms. Also a choline deficiency weakens cell membranes which could cause decreased absorption and therefore other nutritional deficiencies will accumulate. Iām also very interested in NAD, as lack of it upregulates the kynurenine pathway and thatās a whole load of trouble. Meat is high in niacin.Ā
Quote from Jenny on November 1, 2022, 9:51 amSo interesting @alexm thanks for posting your observations and thoughts.Ā
On the vA detox my iron results got more dysregulated not better as predicted. Higher ferritin, higher TIBC. Never really understood what was going on. Not had testing done in last couple of years though. Removing much of my high whole food vC could explain it. Recently Iāve been putting my food into Cronometer and realising how low my vC intake really is. Iāve always kept in fruit and vegetables but not high vC ones. Iām not hitting RDA for vC. Iāve started buying more high vC fruit this last couple of weeks. Food for thought.Ā
Grant found lowering vA led to a higher vC levels in his body. Maybe lowering vA does help. Idk. However, during detox often these things need to be supported until vA low enough, if that does indeed lead to naturally higher vC levels.Ā
Just emphasises how supplements and foods are not the same and there can be unintended consequences of limited diets. A realisation Iām having more each day. I knew it but now I really KNOW it!!Ā
@jaj No worries, well if you were antagonising copper heavily like GS advises people with zinc, selenium, moly then no wonder your ferritin was going up, all of those were really messing up my body ability to deal with iron and ended up causing severe blood sugar issues, even from pulse dosing and taking the tiny amounts I was taking based on tolerance.Ā I also think activated charcoal makes my iron metabolism worse probably because itās depleting my copper, I have been using the hardwood charcol the past week and I just feel cold and canāt eat red meat again however I do find the hardwood charcoal much more tolerable than the coconut derived stuff. My ferritin levels were the same as they were in May when I got them tested a month ago however it was in a period where I was taking a break from the VA detox so not sure if it would have shown different or not on the full VA detox.
One interesting thing I noticed is when on a full low vit A diet I canāt tolerate more than a few mg of zinc but if I eat high vitamin a foods I can tolerate 80-100mg zinc no issues and it makes me feel good. That being said they are zinc lozenges that also contain ascorbic acid 22mg zinc with 100mg ascorbic acid so it could be theyāre shutting off detox but at the same time I donāt tolerate at all or feel like these lozenges when Iām doing low VA. To me it seems like I stop tolerating them on low VA because they deplete my copper too much hence why I get intolerance to iron foods and blood sugar issues after taking them, Iām unsure about the idea that its because it causes more copper dumping.
@jaj I also struggled with meat digestion for years, on top of taking stuff for HCL production, what I probably found most useful were digestive enzymes that were high in proteases, like this one https://www.holisticheal.com/ultra-dairy-digest.html 50000 HUT (2 capsules) in proteases was the amount I needed to digest meat correctly. There are a number of brands which have the same formulation for this "Dairy digest" product. I found these were the best ones to use as they contain minimal enzymes in the formulation, the ones with lots of enzymes can cause issues.
I think part of the problem with meat digestion issues is a weak pancreas resulting in less enzymes being produced to digest the meat.Ā
On Low VA I was heavily reliant on that enzyme supplement to digest meat so my pancreas wasn't functioning well, now I'm doing a more relaxed version and have changed some things and I seem to digest meat fine at the moment with no enzymes.
@jaj I can't find the link, but I seem to remember you posting within the last few weeks about your Vitamin C intake not meeting the RDA for a while. I know you've mentioned anxiety pre- and during detox before. I was thinking and remembered that Vitamin C is reported to support folate status - both by activating it as well as protecting 5 MTHF. Could that be of relevance to you? I include potatoes at every meal (that's my only source of Vitamin C outside of mushrooms and white corn, which don't supply a significant amount), and I've found I can't skip potatoes in even two meals without then experiencing a depression that is unique to (what appears to be) low folate for me.
See here for a few references:
https://bmchematol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12878-018-0107-2