Another year has gone by, and now I owe my loyal followers an update. In a nutshell, here it is: I am still very much alive, doing quite well, and remain eczema free. So, that’s nice. Oh, and yes, I am continuing to live on my vitamin A deplete diet. That’s nice too.
But, I’ve not been sitting idle regarding the vitamin A topic either. In addition to my day job, and other life responsibilities, I’ve spent more time investigating the history and nuances of the vitamin A story. This investigation has now led me to make a rather profound discovery. That discovery is that vitamin A is not a vitamin, at all. Nope; in no way is retinol, nor it’s precursors, a vitamin. That grand theory and the esteemed vitamin label given to this toxic molecule is rooted in nothing more than botched science.
Of course, that’s not just my opinion, and no, I am not delusional. Rather, you’ll soon see that it is simply a fact. So, if you are like me, and have been wondering why the symptoms of so-called vitamin A deficiency are a perfect match for those of vitamin A toxicity, you’ll get the answer to that little 100-year-old mystery.
I’ve documented this investigation in a new eBook. Like with my prior eBook, this one is completely free too. There are no hooks or gotchas to it, nor advertising associated with it. There’s no monetary gain in any of this for me, or anyone else. However, there’s a gigantic amount of money being made in attempting to treat the endless autoimmune diseases. Thus, the title: Poisoning For Profits.
Please download the eBook and share it with as many people as you like. All I ask in return is for you to please comment on it as you see fit. Therefore, please feel completely free to contact me with any feedback and questions.
Like always, you most certainly should not just take my word, or anyone else’s word, on any of this. Rather fantastically, you get to conduct a very simple in-home experiment and prove the science of it. You’ll get to see the results of that experiment with your own eyes. In doing so, you’ll get to participate in one of the most important health science experiments ever conducted. Science just does not get to be any cooler than that.
Poisoning For Profits Why so many of us are sick and dying young.
Thank you
A piece of evidence to support this theory of Vitamin A toxicity being a potential cause of eczema:
I had developed severe eczema on the backs of both hands, aggravated by ingestion of corn and tomato. It was strange, because I’ve never been prone to eczema or rashes (other than sunburn). At the time, I had been taking cod liver oil daily, and eating beef liver several times per week. Both of those are very high in Vitamin A. I was Googling for possible causes of eczema when I came across this blog. I decided that even though it was a theory I’d not heard before, it seemed plausible, given my liver and cod liver oil intake, so I determined to try it.
I didn’t implement a zero-Vitamin-A diet, but simply cut out the cod liver oil, the liver, and corn and tomatoes, as well as the almond milk and boxed cereals we routinely buy which are fortified with Vitamin A. I was already avoiding dairy products.
Fast-forward about 4 months, give or take:
My hand eczema is completely gone. The most I’ve experienced in the last month is some mild itching – no rash. I’ve been able to add corn and tomatoes back into my diet without the eczema coming back! I can’t absolutely attribute it to avoidance of Vitamin A because I have made a number of other changes at the same time (increased my supplementation of zinc and Vitamin C, a parasite cleanse, several liver/gallbladder flushes, increased my fish oil [not cod liver oil] intake, and a few other things…), however, it still lends at least some weak support to the theory expounded here on this blog. Therefore, I believe this theory to be deserving of attention.
Thankyou for sharing your experience.
An update: I now have another piece of evidence in support of your theory. I did end up eating a small amount of liver several weeks ago, to no effect. This week, however, my daughter was sick with a cold, and I could feel that it was threatening to make me sick, also, so I swallowed a pile of vitamins, among which was Vitamin A, 10,000 IU. I figured, what the hey, I’ll take it, and let’s see what happens. Nothing happened with that first dose, but the next day I could feel the cold virus once again threatening, so took another pile of vitamins, A among them, and yesterday, the eczema has reappeared in a small spot on my left hand! This after months of being completely free of that. So I am thinking that perhaps the months of not consuming any preformed A made a small dent in my liver stores, so that it took 1 dose of liver plus 2 capsules of A to reach my storage threshold and cause a return of the eczema. Needless to say, I’ll not be taking any more A capsules for a very long time.
Hi Shauna,
Thanks for the feedback and update. I’m sorry that your eczema has returned. I’m still staying away from all sources, 100%. So, that’s now 40 months of not consuming any VA. For me at least, that ends the claim of it being an essential nutrient.
My daughter’s doctor made mention of vit.A toxicity and said she should not take much.
After reading your article, I am ready to do an experient. This morning will be the last time I give her any vit. with A in it. I will get back to you in a month.
My daughter has Sydenham’s Chorea from complications of Rhuematic Fever that she aquired at age 4. However, it went undiagnosed even though we saw more doctors than I can remember for 28 years. Thankful to PANDAS NETWORK for helping to point me in a direction where my daughter is receiving help and healing.
She also has Bartonella and Erhlicheosis. I suspect and have my own therapies of how aluminum, mercury, etc in Vaccines contributed to her Autoimmune problems.
Thankful to you for possibly helping with one more piece of the puzzle to helping my daughter, Casey.
Vickie Bonawitz
Dear Grant,
First of all, many thanks for your research!
I have light form of IBD, billiary diskynesia and start to developing kidney disease after almost 2 years of consuming super-healthy food (lots of green veggies and Vit-D supplements). My skin was extremely dry, skin around eyes became very thin and I could (and unfortunately still can) see a dark circles and a lot of veins around each eye. I also have developed some problems with memory, slightly blurred vision at low-light conditions and pain in back. I`m only 27 years old. No help from doctors and I decided to do my own research, because I believed that my desease linked to my diet change in a some mysterious way. How this could be possible that health food made me ill? Then I found your blog. Your theory is brilliant and I adopted near zero vit-A diet immediately (only white rice, kidney beans and turkey breast twice a week). Three months gone, but I see no improvements and I am in сonfusion now. Obviously there are two possibilities:
1) My problem is not in vit-A poisoning. I still think your theory is brilliant completely correct but may be it is just not my case.
2) I really have vit-A toxicity (not vit-D as my blood test show normal level of vit-D), but for some reason my recovery progress is very slow.
I just need a liitle bit of hope at the moment so want to believe my problems will be resolved after time.
So my main question is: how are you now? Have your vision improved additionally since 20/15? And what about your kidney problems and IBD?
Sorry for my bad English.
Hello Victor,
Thanks so much for contacting me. I’m sorry to hear about your condition.
The short answer to your question, is yes, I’m still recovered, and doing quite well. I also continue with my vitamin A deplete diet too.
My vision is good too. I’m not sure if it is at 20/20 or not. I’ll get an official eye exam done soon, and share that result with you. But, overall, my eyes feel quite good. Also, I find my eyes being able to produce a lot more tears lately too. So, I think my eye health is rather good. But, I still have a bit of vascularization and redness in the sclera of the right eye.
Now, the longer answer to your question.
One thing I did not share in my blog post was that back in 2006, I too was diagnosed with kidney disease. After repeated tests, I was given pretty much a terminal prognosis and was told that I’d very likely be on dialysis by 2012, and then after that … well, it was not good.
So, by 2009, I had been officially doctor diagnosed with Cataracts, Kidney Disease, Adult Eczema, and Chronic fatigue. I was told that I’d have the eczema for the rest of my life too. All of the above doctor diagnosed conditions are now resolved. In addition, I self-diagnosed myself for diabetes, since I had all the top documented symptoms for it, specifically:
• Unusual thirst
• Frequent urination
• Weight change (gain or loss)
• Extreme fatigue or lack of energy
• Blurred vision
• Frequent or recurring infections
• Cuts and bruises that are slow to heal
• Tingling or numbness in the hands or feet
• Other issues
All of these symptoms are now resolved too. However, it did take a long time for me to completely recover from all of the above symptoms. The tingling and numbness in the hands at night finally completely resolved after about three years.
So, with that, I think it is very important to understand that there are really two phases to recovery. The first phase is to remove the toxin that has caused the issues and tissue damage. The second phase, and the much longer one, is to give the body the time needed to rebuild the damage to all the epitheliums and organs.
Now, as I stated in my eBook, the first early sign of recovery for me was the lifting of the chronic fatigue. That fatigue mostly resolved, and almost abruptly, at about 21 days into my diet change. Likewise, for joint stiffness.
The second early sign of recovery was a general drop in what I’ll call somewhat body-wide inflammation. It went through cycles, and it too started to happen by about the 30 day mark. But, I’d say that it took almost a year to really resolve all inflammation. All other recovery happened very slowly after that.
Now, for yourself. There’s no way for me to know if your conditions are really from vitamin-A toxicity or not. But, it sure does sound like it. Did you have symptoms of fatigue? Has that changed for you?
Your diet sounds too restrictive. Are you supplementing with B & C vitamins? If not, I’d at least recommend adding brown rice for some B vitamins, and cauliflower to get some vitamin C. Both foods are good sources of fiber too. One other very important thing to consider is that you need to have some salt intake too. I’ve subsequently learned that the liver attempts to expel excess vitamin-A out of the body via bile salts. So, you’d need to get some salts in your diet to facilitate that process. You might want to consider coconut water to provide other minerals.
I hope this helps. I can’t make any promises, and can only tell you about my experiences. But, I am so impressed that you’ve taken this experiment on. I would very much like to know how you progress.
Thanks
Grant
Hello Grant,
Many thanks for your reply! Glad to hear you are better now.
Regarding my diet – I tried brown rice but prefer a white one. The first reason is that my IBD symptoms were worse when I was consuming on brown rice (it seems that my vit-A destroyed digestion is now incapable of dealing with high amounts of fiber) and the second one is that brown rice is a quite high in manganese and I just want to avoid occasionally overdose. Yes, I take vit-C supplements with zinc and taurine, but haven`t noticed any improvements. It is interesting that you mentioned vasularization in eyes – I have that symptom too (mainly in the left eye, and pain in my back is also worse on the left side, it is strange and I think there should be a reason which I failed to find). I noticed that vascularization come in waves – some days it is better, some days is worse, but it had never resolved completely. Especially my eyes are very red when I wake up at night and go to pee and after shower. I also have tinnitus (most probably because of the inner ear inflammation). But if you have vascularisation even three years later, I think it is a bad sign. Do not want to believe, but it seems that vit-A half-life in body is much longer than we think. May be we`ll have to deal with slight inflammation till the end of our lives.
I can`t say much about fatigue because I have a little bit of chronic fatigue all my life. Yes, recently it has become a little bit worse, but I did not attach any importance to it, I think it is because of the stress.
Actually I am a kind of med/biochemical geek and since I realised that I most probably poisoned but vit-A (it is hard to believe, because according to everything that I have ever read, it is impossible to get such toxicity from beta-carotenу (sure only If you don`t drink litres of carrot juice every day), because body downregulate process of b-carotene to retinol conversion and this conversion is stopped when you don`t need retinol anymore. But now I realise that it is completely wrong. Obviously, our bodies never stop to convert b-carotene (and other retinol precursors) to retinol itself. May be there is some genetics involved in conversion speed matter, anyway it is clear that we should avoid “healthy” vegetarians diets for the rest of our lives.
Now I trying to find out a ways to faster deplete the retinol storage. I know about bile salts and think that bile salts sequestrants like Colestipol and Cholestyramine will significantly accelerate recovery, but they have a lot of side effects and will not only deplete vit-A, but all other fat-soluble vitamins. Anyway, none of bile salts sequestrants are on market in my country, so no chances to try.
Most interesting thing that I`ve recently noticed is that I feel slightly better when consumed little amounts of alcohol (red vine) and I remember that my symptoms have became worse after I stopped to ate broccoli. Do not sure 100% but I think that alcohol dyhydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase are the key. Both are induced by alcohol consumption and by sulforaphane (the potential caner-preventing and may be even anti-aging chemical agent from broccoli). Is it possible that it`s cancer-preventing properties are due to it can alter vit-A metabolism?
Also do you try fasting (and especially fasting with activated charcoal)? I read recent study and there was improvement in b-cells function in fasting patients with type 1 diabetes. I also know that fasting could improve regeneration of our stem cells.
I now plan to try sulforaphane and remain on this diet for another year, at least. It seems that if we dealing with such a stable molecule as retinol, we need to be extremely patient.
P.S. When you were self-diagnosed with diabetes, do you measured your blood glucose level? Do you know your glomerular filtration rate now and back in 2006 when you were diagnosed with kidney disease? I think that the most correct and accurate way to track the recovery process will be the C-reactive protein and IL-6 measurement. I have my results for CRP now and two years ago (before I adopt this devastating “healthy diet”). CRP level two years ago was 17 times less than now.
Hi Victor,
I’ll try to answer your questions as best as I can here.
Regarding Timeframe:
One of the thoughts that I had early on was that if it took decades to build up into a toxic state, then I felt it would probably take quite a while to detox and recover. Yet, obviously, this long recovery timeframe is a major difficulty for most people. Finding a faster, and more direct antidote would be fantastic. However, for me, the somewhat slow recovery has not been a too bad because I mostly recovered by about six months, and then just minor lingering cycles thereafter. But, overall, my health is now vastly improved.
Regarding: “healthy” vegetarians diets
Yes, I’ve read other accounts of people being on vegetarians diets and subsequently developing IBD, and other autoimmune diseases, etc. Especially so when combined with intense exercise, fitness training or stress. I believe the stress factors into it by the liver is releasing more glycogen into the blood. With glycogen comes the extra vitamin A.
Regarding: vascularization in eyes
My condition sounds quite similar to yours. I have more redness in the mornings too. But, overall, the amount of vascularization has been reduced substantially. It is far better than it was a year ago. My theory with the vascularization is that it is the body’s response to the damaged epithelium. As it thickens, the tissue not being able to absorb enough oxygen through the outer surface. The body then responds to that low oxygen condition and grows in new blood capillaries into that tissues to supply the needed oxygen from the inside. So, even long after the outer tissue recovers and returns to a normal thickness, those somewhat newly grown in capillaries are not going to un-grow themselves for a long time. I’m really fascinated by this aspect of the disease condition. Now, when I meet people, I find myself immediately inspecting their eyes for signs of micro vascularization. I think is it one of the first, and early signs of the development of the disease (aka poisoning).
If you are interested, I can take a photo of my eyes as they are now, and share that with you.
Regarding: fasting
I did not try fasting. I’ve only very a few times, and very intermittently, tried activated charcoal. I did try supplementing with taurine, and I believe I took too much of it and it made some of my skin to worsen. So, I stopped it altogether.
Regarding “Maybe we`ll have to deal with slight inflammation till the end of our lives.”
I hope not, and I really don’t think so, since I believe that I am now inflammation free.
Regarding Alcohol:
Yes, alcohol is documented to help wash more vitamin A out of the liver strores, but you’d then need some mechanism to capture and prevent that from circulating into other organs, and especially the brain. But, maybe combining Alcohol, followed with activated charcoal, say 30 minutes later, might do the trick? A lab test for what gets expelled would be fascinating?
Regarding: self-diagnosed with diabetes
No, I did not do any testing back then ( as I was convinced it was pretty much game-over for me anyways due to the kidney failure). But, my ability to now taste for sweetness is vastly more sensitive now. I recently did a blood sugar measurement (post meal) and it was at 5.6.
Regarding: most correct and accurate way to track the recovery process
Yes, agreed. Very soon I plan on going back to my nephrologist and redoing the protein tests, and be comparing that to where it was at back in 2006. I will share the results here.
I’ll also get an eye exam done, and I will share the results here too.
Regarding: CRP level two years ago was 17 times less than now.
I’m I reading this wrong? That sounds quite bad?
Regarding: cancer
There is no doubt in my mind, what-so-ever, about there being a very big connection here.
Hi Grant,
Regarding alcohol;
It seems that alcohol not only wash vit-A from the liver but also decrease retinoic acid synthesis, but also high concentrations of retionoic acid could contribute to ethanol’s toxicity. It sounds like you shouldnt consume alcohol when you are far beyound the vit-A saturation point, but it can be a little bit useful when concentrations of retionoic acid in your body is not high.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8801166
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3197900/
I think using charcoal will not help in this case, because alcohol make liver to release vit-A in blood and charcoal is not absorbed in blood, it can only deal with substances in GI tract, but while retinol is sequsted with bile salts, it seems that we should use choleretic and than (20-30 mins later) charcoal. What do you think?
Anyway, if I ever will find a way to faster depletion of vit-A storage I will share with you immidiately.
Wow. blood sugar 5.6 after meal is a great result.
Regarding CRP – yeah, 17 times is a really bad thing. I was completely inflammation-free two years ago before this diet. Now I plan to measure CRP (or IL-6 because it is even better marker of system inflammation) every 6 month, will report results there if you are interested in.
Yes, please take a photo of your eyes, I can take photo of mine too, but can`t attach photo to this web-form for comments.
And I found an interesting fact: did you read something about Kempner Rice Diet? It seems that diet from only rice and some fruits can cause reversion in some cases of hypertension.
Also want to ask whether you have any problems with heart? High vit-A can cause vascular and artherial calcification, it is one of the worst conditions that each one of us can ever deal with.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3557503/
Hello Igor,
I’ve uploaded a photo of my eyes showing the remaining vascularization.
https://ggenereuxblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/img_3009.jpg
I’ve also included a photo showing a bit of a recent history of my blood pressure.
https://ggenereuxblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/bloodpressure.jpg
And yes, I have no doubt that this poisoning is a very big contributor to heart disease. One of the points that I’ve read about is that the plaque that builds up in arteries is plastered with dead macrophages. As is the plagues that form in the brain in Alzheimer’s disease. Then, there’s this new research showing that Vitamin A basically immobilizes macrophages.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150630121406.htm
and
Hope this information helps
With all due sincere respect, from what I’ve read on your blog — and that admittedly isn’t very much — I don’t see where you can claim that people are getting overdoses of vitamin A.
For example, there’s only two percent of the RDA in a cup of milk. Most people these days don’t even drink regular milk — they drink soda and worse — but even if they did, plus had maybe some cheese every day, you’re still not getting anywhere close to the RDA.
As for vegetable/plant sources — that needs several different minerals and vitamin co-factors to be converted into retinol, especially zinc — which many are deficient in.
But overall — if what you say is true — it would be REALLY helpful if you would write up your hypothesis in a short, ‘Vitamin A Toxicity for Dummies’ style format. You claim yourself that one of the symptoms is poor memory, poor concentration, brain fog, etc.
Well that’s one of my main issues — so reading large amounts of text is Impossible. I contend it will be the same for many others you’re trying to reach.
A concise, bulleted approach with your claims would much easier to digest.
Thanks.
Hi Marcia,
I agree that there’s too much to read on that blog post. That’s why I wrote the two ebooks. You can download them and then take your time, and read them at your own pace. There’s no need to read it all at once. But, I know that a short version is needed too. I’ll try to find the time to develop that over the next month or so. In the interim, what you need to know is that vitamin A is probably not a vitamin, it is just a toxic molecule. It is a toxic molecule that the human body is very able to deal with on a reasonable basis. But, the body also slowly accumulates vitamin A over time. Once you’ve accumulated too much of it, it will begin to make you sick. At first, just a little bit sick, but slowly your organs and tissues will start failing and you’ll beccome more and more sick with disease. Depending upon age, and a person’s particular situation, the recovery times are long. Plan on a year or more.
I hope this helps, and thanks for the feedback. Please check back in a month or so for the short version.
Grant
Hi Grant- My plan is to try this diet. I am making a list from your ebook plus the couple comments in this post where you replied to Victor and mentioned a couple other things too.
I am pretty excited about this.
I have some questions for you about foods though and their possible safety from vit. A.
1. Do you know if Brazil nuts are low in vit. A? (I’d like to eat one or two of them a few times a week for the selenium.)
2. Dark meat chicken? (I am especially fond of chicken thighs from a local farmer here in Pennsylvania.)
3. You mention lobster as a splurge kind of thing. What about King crab legs or Snow crab legs?
So those are the specific foods I wondered about as I read your material.
But one more question…
Do you know where I could research true, accurate and real information about the nutrition facts of foods? I have looked some things up by googling, but I noticed that the information about lard says it’s 0% vitamin A and your info contradicts that…and I believe what you wrote.
So my guess is that the sites where I can easily find ‘nutrition facts’ may not be accurate. So wondered if you knew where to get accurate info.
Thanks so much for taking on this diet experiment. Getting other people to do so was the entire purpose of writing the ebooks.
For nutrition information, I’ve found http://nutritiondata.self.com to be a good site, and specifically for VA, I usually just type “Vitamin A in X” in Google’s search bar.
Yes, Brazil nuts = 0 vit A
Dark chicken meat – I would be very careful. But, it’s your call of course.
Yes, I think some of the information on vitamin A content might not be up-to-date, and therefore not reflect current production practices. Regarding lard, the possibility of it containing some retinoic acid is the bigger risk.
If you don’t mind, can you please report back on your progress and any findings?
Thanks
Yes. I haven’t started yet though. I am making lists and plans to start next month. I want to keep a journal for it too.
When I wrote next month, I forgot it’s April 1. Oops. I’m actually going to start it this month. I could feasibly start it now if I just eat rice and beef.
Another thing I wanted to mention is that I actually feel pretty excited to start this. More now that I’ve been looking up foods in google. Lol.
I’m admittedly disappointed about the chicken thighs. I looked it up after I read your comment and I was shocked at how much is in a cup. 49 point something in just 8 oz. Yikes!
But I discovered some other foods that I like that I could eat on this. Oats look ok and I love oatmeal. Then I thought “Ok, how am I gonna do this with no milk?”
“Oh I know. I could make nut milk from the Bazil nuts and use honey for sweetener.”
It turns out that maple syrup is on the yes list though too.
Ok so one other thing I’m confused about. How would I find out the amount of retinoic acid in a food or if it contains it at all? Like I mentioned lard and it saying on a nutrition site that it has no Vitamin A in it, but as you said, it does have retinoic acid. I understand this is not good and to stay away from it. But since it didn’t list retinoic acid on the nutrition site I’m wondering how many foods contain this but it’s not reported on nutrition sites. I’d just like to know how to find that out.
Thanks.
Sorry, I don’t know of any source of information for retinoic acid in foods.
Pingback: A Tale of Three Metals and The Fate Western Civilization – lifebiomedguru
Hello,
I have recently come across your website and I was curious about your previous diet, what was it you were eating prior to this? Do you know how much vitamin A you were consuming roughly per day, and from what sources?
Thanks!
My diet prior to getting sick was quite normal and would have been regarded by most experts as being very healthy. There’s a separate chapter my first eBook documenting how and why I descended into disease.
Thank you for the reply, I will take a look.
I wondered if you had considered Vitamin A’s role in Vitamin D, and how vitamin A could be exacerbating a vitamin D deficiency, if there is little vitamin D in the body? This could look like an issue with vitamin A, when in fact in the presence of adequate vitamin D, it would be beneficial. Also on John Cannell’s excellent Vitamin D Council website links many autoimmune diseases with low vitamin D levels, that are then improved by vitamin D:
https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health-conditions/
I wondered if you had had any vitamin D blood tests recently, and what was your results?
Thanks.
Thanks for the question. No, my descent into disease hell and my recovery from it had absolutely nothing to do with vitamin D. As I’ve documented in my two e-books, leading up to my descent into disease I was consuming large amounts of whole milk. The milk’s fortified with vitamin D. I was consuming this extra milk trying to offset an excess measure of gum recession my dentist had alerted me to.
So I actually had lots of vitamin D in my diet leading up to my serious disease condition. As a matter fact, the extra milk consumption, with the supplemented vitamin D, vastly contributed to it.
I’ve now recovered from all of this disease condition, and my gums have gone back to being normal, and my teeth are now once again feeling quite strong. I did not supplement with vitamin D at all over this time frame. I did not consume any foods that contained vitamin D. I also live in Canada where we have a very dingy amount of sunlight for over nine months of the year. So, by not consuming any vitamin D, and only by eliminating all vitamin A, was I able to make this recovery.
What’s astonishing to me is that in the face of the massive and overwhelming rate of disease, and the staggering rate increases of diseases in North America people still naïvely believe that all of this is somehow attributable to a deficiency. That “deficiency“ excuse is just a bizarre thought to me. For example, in 1970 there were about a total of fewer than 1000 people with kidney disease in all of the USA. Now there are about 660,000 people with full-blown kidney failure and about 30 million people with emerging kidney disease. It is simply mathematically impossible for that rate increase to have anything to do with a deficiency. People need to wake up and face the obvious here and see this for what it really is. It is simply a goddamn poisoning. Then when you consider that many of the early vitamin A toxicity experiments conclusively proved that vitamin A would directly induce this same kidney destruction, and also just about every other named chronic disease, in experimental animals, I don’t think it’s a big challenge to connect the dots. We need to face the obvious; it’s nation wide vitamin A poisoning. I mean seriously, after seeing that over the last 100 years that researchers have repeatedly and systematically quickly poisoned tens of thousands of animals into massive disease and early deaths using a so-called vitamin how can any reasonable, rational thinking person continue to believe the phony theory of it being a vitamin?
We need to stop with the BS excuses and end the pointless debate by more people taking on this diet experiment. The chronic diseases have absolutely nothing to do with a deficiency in vitamin D, or anything else. Vitamin D is just a by-product of the solar breakdown of so-called vitamin-A, and it binds to the same cellular receptors. Therefore, vitamin D only appears to be a vitamin because it is far less toxic than vitamin A. And vitamin D blunts the toxicity of vitamin A by blocking up the same receptors, and thereby rate-limits the conversion of vitamin A into the highly toxic retinoic acid form of the retinoid molecule.
I want to thank you for your detective work in this endeavor. Your ebooks certainly make a compelling case.
Have you run across this blog before? https://www.healthextremist.com/how-i-got-vitamin-a-toxicity/
Read through the comment section (it’s lengthy but relevant to your data) to learn of some attempts at vitamin A toxicity reduction. Teprenone sounds interesting as it appears to block retinol ester formation (or something like that). If we can get enough attention to this, I am confident a solution will be discovered that doesn’t require the dietary approach.
Hi Evan,
Thanks for the feedback. I was not aware of Teprenone. I’ll check it out.
There have now been a few people contact me because they have genuinely poisoned themselves with vitamin A, and are trying to recover from that condition. It’s a very slow process to do it with diet alone.
Thanks for the link to https://www.healthextremist.com/how-i-got-vitamin-a-toxicity/.
Grant
Thanks for the reply,
If you have the time can you quickly summarize what meats would be safest as far as retinol (or retinoic acid) being in them (probably resides in the fat, right?). I am getting my family geared towards lowering VA consumption, but I have a 4 year old who isn’t fond of beef but loves ham and bacon (we all love bacon and bacon grease too, but that has me wondering what is in there). Russet potatoes show very little VA as well. Have you tried potatoes in your self-experimentation?
Hi Evan,
I really don’t have a list of meats that I can provide you. I can only say what’s worked for me.
In the first year or so, I was strictly sticking to grass fed beef. But, there definitely some vitamin A in beef. Since then, I changed to bison. Bison is just more aligned to my goal to continue with a complete (extremely low) VA deplete diet. For me, bison and beef are close to being the same price.
I have occasionally had turkey breast too. I would rule out all pork, pork fat, and even store bought hamburger too. I think pork is just too risky in my situation.
Potatoes would be fine. I have occasionally eaten potatoes and french fries with no ill effects.
Thanks for the support,
Grant
Why do you think beef has vitamin a?
It’s documented as such. But, it pretty low.
Hi Grant,
I supplemented with a greens powder that contained 2500 IU of palmitate for about a year. I developed sebhoreic dermatitis on my scalp, and dealt with brain fog and fatigue. I stopped using the powder about 7 months ago thinking it may have caused these problems, but I was not sure what specifically in the powder was the problem until I discovered more information about vitamin A toxicity and your blog two weeks ago.
I adopted your zero vitamin A diet (excluding any meat) two weeks ago and my fatigue and brain fog have been quickly improving.
Your research is amazing and I’m greatly appreciated that you’ve shared it. I have three questions for you.
1.Do you think the beef/bison/turkey is essential to the vitamin A deplete diet or is that just out of want rather than need? After reading How Not to Die by Dr. Michael Greger I believe that meat can be very harmful to human health (completely unrelated to vitamin A toxicity).
2. Do you believe your body will ever be able to rid itself of stored retinol or will you have to maintain this diet for the rest of your life?
3. Do you think that somebody who consumed high amounts of plant sourced vitamin A from birth but zero preformed vitamin A from animals would be at risk to saturate their liver stores? I haven’t done any research but the logical thought would be that the human body would be able to regulate vitamin A from plants no problem if we never consumed preformed vitamin a from animals or palmitate from milk and supplements.
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the comments, taking on this diet, and reporting your results.
RE: 1) Do you think the beef/bison/turkey is essential to the vitamin A deplete diet?
No, these meats are not essential, they are just what I did. However, what is essential is having some source of protein. Plant or animal sources, egg whites could be an option too.
RE: 2) Do you believe your body will ever be able to rid itself of stored retinol or will you have to maintain this diet for the rest of your life?
Yes, I think the body will eventually rid itself of stored retinol. It is just going to take a long time. So, I don’t think you’ll need to maintain this strict diet for the rest of one’s life. I’m just doing that to continue to experiment on myself in the name of science.
RE: 3) Do you think that somebody who consumed high amounts of plant sourced vitamin A from birth but zero preformed vitamin A from animals would be at risk to saturate their liver stores?
Yes, they would still be at risk, but just not as acutely, and it might happen at say age 80, rather than at age 55. I’m not so sure about this concept of the body regulating vitamin A from plants, but rather that plant sources would be hugely safer because the retinol content is not typically emulsified in oils.
I hope this help. If you don’t mind, can you please update us with your progress as time goes on? It is hugely helpful for other people who may be sitting on the fence regarding this concept.
Grant
Thanks for your reply Grant. I will provide updates for everyone on my progress moving forward.
Hello! I have going through what I feel is a toxic response to topical tretinoin. I began using the cream(Retin-a) October 31st and was experiencing many weird side effects. By November 12th I was at the hospital with back pain, strange head pressure and aches, dizziness, eye pain and almost confusion. I was not aware this cream could be toxic so I didn’t piece this together until a doctor asked me if I was doing anything different or using anything different. At that time I was using a new multivitamin and the cream. Both for about the same amount of time. The multi had 1200 ius. Half beta carotene and the other half retinal palmitate. It has been 6months now and I’m still experiencing some of these symptoms. It’s so hard for me to stick with a restricted diet. I do not consume any butter or eggs or cheese. I loved them all dearly. 😔 I struggle mainly with staying away from beta carotene. I love salads and melons and veggies. I welcome suggestions on diet.
Anyway I have begun reading your first e-book. It’s alot so I’m breaking in in slow. I’m catching the main points though. I love your points on vaccines. Could this cream have caused these symptoms? I have been sent out for an mri on my brain. Blood tests to check my vitamin levels. (Low on vitamin d 25ng). Blood tests to check vital organ function. A full eye exam with dilation. All normal.
However, I still experience brain fog, eye pain on the left side (mainly when I look to the side) mild head aches, fatigue and tiredness.
I feel like my life has been flipped upside down. My visual reality has definitely changed and it took quite a while to get used to it. I do not know if that is part of the toxicity or if that was damage done to my brain or eyes.
Any thoughts are welcome.
Ashley
Hi Ashley,
I’m sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Accutane / tretinoin
are horribly toxic drugs that should have been banned from the markets decades ago.
Yes, your conditions are very consistent with those reported due to Tretinoin poisoning.
Making a full recovery can take a long, long time.
As for a diet suggestions, other than what’s in my two eBooks, you might want to change to using cauliflower as your new primary veggie.
Grant
Is it possible to have vitamin A toxicity in the skin from topical retinoids? Is there a way to get it out of the skin? I ditched retinoids but would like my facial skin to improve back to normal.
Yes, it is possible to have vitamin A toxicity in the skin from topical retinoids. I’m sorry, but I don’t know of an antidote other than time.
Thanks! Any chance you know whether this is something my body will ever heal from? I feel like this is it. Like this is the reality I need to get used to forever. In moments of hope I can see the light and I believe in my body healing but sometimes (maybe from beta carotene?) I have major set backs and feel the way I did when this all happened. (That’s how I’m feeling now).
Ashley
Hi Ashley,
Yes, I fully believe that the body can heal from this condition. I’ve been through it myself. Retinoic acid is a brutal poisoning, and it is going to take a long time to fully recover. Right now, you need to be very careful with your diet, and include ample amounts of fats. For myself, I found that olive oil was safe.
I hope this helps.
Grant
Grant, I read your books but I can’t find if you mentioned the CARET study in them.
You may already know about it, but it’s another piece of supporting evidence:
The CARET study ended early, after the investigators found that daily beta-carotene (30 mg) and retinyl palmitate (25,000 IU) supplements increased the risk of lung cancer and cardiovascular disease mortality.
“CARET was stopped ahead of schedule in January 1996 because participants who were randomly assigned to receive the active intervention were found to have a 28% increase in incidence of lung cancer, a 17% increase in incidence of death and a higher rate of cardiovascular disease mortality compared with participants in the placebo group.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15572756
Hi Frank,
Thanks for reading all of that.
Hi Frank,
Yes, I am aware of the CARET study. My two ebooks are so long, and wordy, I just didn’t want to squeeze it in. Incidentally, there was a somewhat similar study conducted in Canada in the late 1970s. What was found in that study was that in asbestos workers who consumed moderate amounts of beta-carotene their risk of developing lung cancer was virtually 100%. Whereas, others who consumed only small amounts of beta-carotene their risk was substantially lower. So, it was not just the asbestos causing the cancer. It was the sharp and very stable asbestos fibers cutting into cell membranes and then that damage allowed more circulating retinoids to pass into the cytoplasm.
BTW, I did get your previous message with the recommendations. I think those are great ideas, and I’ll try to implement most of them in the next 4-5 weeks.
Thanks again,
Grant
Hi Grant and Frank,
Would you mind sharing the recommendations if they are relevant and helpful to the topic?
Side note- I will be sharing an update on my experience with the vitamin A deplete diet soon, Injust want to give it a bit more time.
Hi Bill,
Here’s a reference:
Source: National Institutes of Health
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminA-HealthProfessional/
Sorry for the confusion Grant, I was curious about the recommendations given to you by Frank that you said you would be implementing in the next 4-5 weeks. Just wondering if those are related to helping treat retinol poisoning?
Hi Bill,
Sorry for the confusion. Frank’s suggestion were about changing the format of my blog posts to make them more readable and sharable.
I hope all’s well.
Grant
All is well, thanks for the clarification.
Thank you, Grant. Your books were fascinating to read (and I’m hungry for more believe it or not). I think you’ve done a genius work of health/nutrition investigation.
I have been researching health and nutrition for years because I just never bought that basic idea that health is falling apart in the Western world for “unknown” or “genetic” reasons or simply due to poor habits (“just eat less and exercise more”). And I never accepted the general attitude that so many seem to have that these ailments are essentially inevitable and just our lot in life and we should just go to the doctor and take our medicine and hope for the best.
As far as explanations, I thought I had heard ’em all by now, but yours is truly original. I’ve never seen an explanation / collection of evidence as compelling as the one you’ve presented for retinol. I’m looking forward to watching as your research / theory gets out there and more people start investigating and experimenting (which I’m doing now too, by the way with a low vitamin A diet).
Btw, here’s another dot for the connecting:
When reading your chapter on poison ivy / urushiol I remembered a video I watched about a poisonous plant called Giant Hogweed (Heracleum mantegazzianum) and it’s toxic sap.
If you don’t already know about this one, it’ll sound familiar.
“The sap of the giant hogweed plant is phototoxic; when the contacted skin is exposed to sunlight or to ultraviolet rays, it can cause phytophotodermatitis (severe skin inflammations). Initially, the skin colours red and starts itching. Blisters form as it burns within 48 hours. They form black or purplish scars that can last several years.
[..]
These reactions are caused by the presence of linear derivatives of furanocoumarin in its leaves, roots, stems, flowers, and seeds. These chemicals can get into the nucleus of the epithelial cells, forming a bond with the DNA, causing the cells to die. The brown colour is caused by the production of melanin triggered by furocoumarins.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleum_mantegazzianum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furanocoumarin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psoralen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelicin
P.S. Always funny when you read about another one of these toxic plant compounds and the horrific damage they do and then you get to the section where it says: “Oh, and it’s also a psoriasis / eczema / cancer treatment.”
Agreed, it was rather strange to learn that some of the big cancer drugs (specifically the nitrogen mustards) had their origin from the mustard gases used in World War I. Quite similarly for retinoic acid too. These “drugs” cost mere pennies to manufacture, and have had almost no legitimate research and development costs, and yet they charge patients tens of thousands of dollars for the “treatments”. This whacky concept of poisoning the body back into health is so completely broken, and needs to come to an end.
After reading a bit more about these plant toxins I came across another example. You could just skip to the conclusion but I think there’s some interesting stuff along the way.
The giant hogweed is a member of the Apiaceae or Umbelliferae family, which is “commonly known as the celery, carrot or parsley family [and includes] such well-known and economically important plants such as ajwain, angelica, anise, asafoetida, caraway, carrot, celery, chervil, coriander, cumin, dill, fennel, hemlock, lovage, cow, parsley, parsnip.” [1]
The Umbelliferae includes the Cicuta (or “water hemlock”) which is “considered one of North America’s most toxic plants, being highly poisonous to humans. […] Poisoning has been reported following children blowing whistles made from the hollow stem of water hemlock plants.” [2]
I never knew how closely related these plants / herbs / spices were. There are many poisonous plants (including the famous poison hemlock) and compounds in this family and they happen to also be high in carotenoids. Is that a coincidence? Toxicity sure seems to be the preferred defense strategy for this plant family and it makes me question the wisdom of consuming plants that have close relatives that are so highly poisonous.
Finally, this lead me to the toxin coumarin, which “was first synthesized in 1868. It is used in the pharmaceutical industry as a precursor reagent in the synthesis of a number of synthetic anticoagulant pharmaceuticals similar to dicoumarol, the notable ones being warfarin (brand name Coumadin)” [3]
And here’s the kicker:
“Warfarin first came into commercial use in 1948 as a rat poison.” [4]
Warfarin (as a so-called “blood thinner”) was in the top 20 most prescribed drugs in 2010 with 32 million prescriptions. [5]
So modern doctors are *literally* prescribing rat poison to the masses.
Talk about a red flag…
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apiaceae
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicuta
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coumarin
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin
5. https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2011/04/19/americas-most-popular-drugs/
Hi Grant,
Great blog and thanks for doing all this research. I just found your site 10 mins ago and haven’t had a chance to read your book yet .
When i was in highschool i had the worst acne of anyone i knew. Nothing worked to fix it, until i was put on accutane. Accutane worked fast.(this was 11 yrs ago now) im not sure if you are familiar? Accutane is a synthetic form of vitamin A. Ever since then ive suffered from dry eyes (my eyes also seem to have yellowish whites).
I’m curious as to your opinion on this is? I also developed an autoimmuneish type thing on my butt cheeks skin during my last course of antibiotics where i got boils seemingly randomly. It is much less now but i still get the occasional one (compared to never having them before)
I also have IBS which i tread with a fodmaps diet.
Curious to hear your thoughts on accutane.
Thanks,
Mark
Hi Mark,
Yes, I do have a lengthy discussion regarding Accutane in my first ebook: Extinguishing the Fire of Hell.
Your experience with Accutane is very much like those of other people I’ve been in contact with. Remarkably, people continue to suffer the long-term damage from it even more than a decade later. But, at least two Accutane victims I’ve talked to have now adopted a very low vitamin A diet, and are now after about a year are seeing significant improvements in their overall health.
The fancy medical term for the autoimmune boils is Hidradenitis Suppurativa. But, let’s not use the obfuscating fancy term, and just call it for what it really is, and that’s a poisoning.
Thanks
Grant
Hi Grant,
Great ! Thanks i have begun reading the accuranw section. Its interesring you say these IBD and autoimmune problems can take 10-20yrs afer accutane to show up. Why do you rhink it takes so long? Dont we use the vitamin a up incrhe mean time?
I.e. if ee take 4 courses of accurane (what i did, and didnt get permanent symptoms until the last course) which is like, shall we say 24 months. At the 24th month lets say we approach 100% capacity. Now 2 years later, wont we have used that up somewhar and now be at like 80%?
Or is your theory more along tbe lines of… earing fortified foods (or foods naturally high in vit a) will cause a chronic low level increase in vitamin A over time? I dont think i eat chronically high vitamin a foods. I avoid dairy and most of my other foods are greens, almonds, bananas, beef and potatoes. But i wonder if i havent HAD to eat this particular diet because it is relatively low in viramin A.
a very enlightening aticle and I dont doubt that Vit A in excess or excess fish oil are problematic, however, I dont know that you addressed liver function in any way as a mitigating factor. Many autistic kids do already have digestion problems and issues with fats in general, and kids in general with the toxic load given them courtesy of the immunistion programme. People who are hypothyroid have poor liver and detoxification issues already. The heat generated from an overburdened liver rises according to TCM, affecting spleen/digestive function, in turn affecting the lungs which are a window to the skin, so the heat escapes through the skin in some cases, or carrys on to become headaches, dizziness , siezures and more. Attending to the internal heat generated from an overburdened liver can help skin issues. but of course if you are still going to shovel in poor fats youre going nowhere fast. My son , who is hypothyroid, tends to get yellow skin and ive found a few drops of cytoflora helps take that away. Could be useful for someone. We still do have issues and I shall take your extensive research on board, thanks.
Hi Sue,
Thanks for reading.
Yes, there’s no doubt that a compromised liver function is going to make the situation far more dangerous. I’ve been in contact with a senior academic researcher who’s like-minded and believes that a compromised liver function leads to a spillover effect, thus allowing retinoids to linger in circulation longer, thus leading to chronic disease.
However, one of the most important understandings for me, and what I was trying to communicate in my ebook, is that given the amazing healing and self-repair capabilities of the human body, there is almost no way a child should experience chronic and long term disease. The only way for that to happen is for them to be exposed to a long-term and persistent poisoning. With a compromised liver function, dietary sources of retinoids fit the bill.
Thanks for the tip regarding cytoflora. I have no prior knowledge regarding it, so I’ll check it out.
unfortunately I would say that the immunisation programme is a system of long term and persistent poisoning beginning at birth and continuing onwards in a relentless fashion throughout the growing years. Have you heard of Dr Mark Starrs book regarding thyroid dysfunction called “hypothyroidism , type 2. the epidemic ” ?
Hi, I recently came across your work and firstly i’d just like to thank you for making your research available. I think it may well be what I have been searching for for the last 5 years since taking Accutane.
I was wondering why the diet you suggest is so minimal? Are these really the only foods that contain zero vitamin A?
Im really keen to have a good go at the diet for at least 12 weeks but it must be exceptionally difficult on just the foods that you mention.
I found a website called dietgrail.com and it claims many more foods do not contain vitamin A than the ones you suggested. Is their information inaccurate?
Thanks again, I really appreciate your work,
Lee
Hi Lee,
My super restrictive list of foods is mostly because I want to continue to experiment with myself on a zero vitamin A diet. It is not because I need to be that restrictive. For most people, unless you are extremely sick, I don’t think they need to be at absolutely zero intake. Yes, there are more foods that don’t have vitamin A, I was just listing what I called “substantial” foods.
Great, thanks for getting back to me. I’ll aim to devise my own very low vitamin A diet and see how it goes.
I’m only part way through the e book but am I correct in thinking that by consuming almost zero Vitmain A this allows the body to metabolise and get rid of excess/toxic vitamin A stored in the liver and fatty tissue?
Is there anyway way to know that this process is taking place? Any means to measure it? Anything I can do or take to assist the process?
Is it worth taking some activated charcoal?
Thanks for your time,
Lee
Hi Lee,
Yes, the body will eventually use up and or expel its store of vitamin A, but it takes a long time.
RE: How will you know that it’s working? I think the best measure is your feeling of overall general well-being. Additionally, you could get a blood test to measure current serum levels, and then another say six months from now.
You could also see and gauge the amount of stored retinol in the skin using a special light (I’ll soon create a new blog post on how to do this using a very inexpensive light ( from a great tip from other reader).
RE: activated charcoal
I did not try activated charcoal as part of my recovery process. However, I think it could be very beneficial. The reason I say that is that the liver attempts to expel stored vitamin A via bile salts, and most of that bile (along with the vitamin A) just gets reabsorbed by the small intestine. So, it’s almost a closed loop process. Whereas, if you took some activated charcoal before the first meal of the day, that activated charcoal (in theory) might capture some of retinol from the bile salts and help with expelling it.
If you don’t mind, can you please let us know what your experiences are on this diet.
Thanks
Grant
Thanks Grant, I will certainly report back my experiences of this diet and if it helps with my post Accutance side effects. I know I will find it extremely difficult to implement a vitamin A deplete diet but im going to give it my best shot because your theory makes so much sense to me.
I’m likely to have a lot of questions on this journey and usually i’ll look to google or Pubmed for the answers but the discussion on this page seems to be the only place to find like minded people. In other group discussions on Accutane there are many people convinced that the drug has left them with a Vitmain A deficiency by somehow damaging some receptors. I assume you would think this to be completely incorrect? It’s quite the opposite isn’t it? Toxicity?
If vitamin A is converted to retinoic acid in the body and Accutane is retinoic acid then surely by supplementing with more Vitamin A which will be converted to retinoic acid within the body then aren’t you effectively giving yourself more of the same poison?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4533586/
I would be most grateful if you could give me your opinion on the above study as it seems to be this that is driving the theory of Accutane somehow leading to Vitamin a deficiency not toxicity.
I’m about half way through your second book and finding it absolutely fascinating. Thanks so much for your help.
Regards,
Lee
Hi Lee,
Yes, I think it is completely to opposite, and it not a vitamin A deficiency at all.
I am quite convinced that it is simply impossible for anyone to be vitamin A deficient. That’s because so-called vitamin A is not a vitamin at all. It is simply a toxin.
I also believe that the damage to cell membranes, from say taking Accutane, or for many other reasons, causes circulating retinol to be more easily converted into RA. So, yes, it is a toxicity. Continuing to consume vitamin A is just adding more gasoline to the fire.
I’ll try to read that study over the next few days. Thanks
Hi Lee,
RE: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4533586/
It’s just so amazing to me that after there now being some 40,000+ reported cases of adverse reactions (including brain damage), and 10,000+ cases of induced IBD, and probably thousands of deaths attributed to this supposed “drug” they refer to it being the “gold standard” in dermatology to treat acne. It’s just insanity!
Not dissuaded by those little details, to treat this kid’s acne, and after only 140 mg they have damaged the eyes enough to cause their patient to developed defective night vision and myopia. Whatever became of the quaint concept in medicine of “first do no harm”? For them to continue to prescribe this wonder drug under any circumstances is just criminal negligence.
Anyways, for them to imply that the treatment with 25,000 IU of VA was somehow responsible for ameliorating the condition is completely bogus, because they had already stopped the isotretinoin treatment (a.k.a. the real poisoning) . The hypothesized prior hypovitaminosis A condition being a predisposing factor is just that; a hypothesis, and nothing more. Moreover, I believe it is completely wrong too, because it is simply impossible for ANYONE to be in a state of hypovitaminosis A.
BTW, I’m now 100% convinced that the overload of the skin lipids with the retinoids is actually the root cause of acne in the first place.
Grant
Hi Lee,
I’ve been following a zero vitamin A diet for roughly three weeks now. The foods I’ve found with zero vitamin A other than the ones Grant suggested are buckwheat (which is the primary food I eat due to arsenic concerns is rice), macadamia nuts, and coconut water. If you come across any others could you please share as I’m always looking to add different foods to a very boring diet.
Thanks
Grant, you wrote of cataracts, but do you think retinol could also cause (or contribute to) myopia? If so, how would you describe that mechanism / process?
I didn’t need glasses until around the age of 19 — so it fits your theory of that age as a common “saturation point” for the liver’s retinol stores.
And the idea that humanity could have survived as *hunter*-gatherers for millennia whilst perpetuating a “genetically-determined” tendency for blurry vision beyond 10 feet never passed the “common sense” test with me.
Around that same time I started developing a suite of health problems of which I really began to take notice: constipation, hair loss, weight gain, depression, anxiety, fatigue.
I also first noticed a varicocele at around that age. I have the same questions about that: Could it be caused by retinol? How would you describe the process?
Hi Frank,
Yes, I do believe that our overload of retinol is a big factor in causing myopia. The probable mechanism being that the accelerated growth rates induced in the epitheliums cause a distortion of the lens and other eye tissues.
Grant
Hi Grant,
Do you know if retinoic acid in the form of tretinoin can store in the body like retinol/retinal?
I ask to try to understand what is going on in my body.
Am I ridding my body of this toxin or am I repairing from the damage this has done? Perhaps both?
Lastly, my symptoms mimick benign intracranial hypertension on some “off” days to a degree. My headaches will be mild and the backs of my eye will be sore upon moving to the side. If I am clearing my body of the retinoic acid stores would this clear up then? Or could this be life long? 😔 You May not have all these answers but maybe you’ve come across a situation similar to mine and could share with me.
I have begun my zero vitamin a diet and things are going well. I even have my family eating this with me. Aside from the fruits and veggies which they all love. I plan to consume zero vitamin a until resolves. I noticed that strawberries have little vitam a and that has been my fruit. Cauliflower is my veggie.
Thank you for all the knowledge you share to us. I appreciate your books and this blog.
~Ashley W.
Hi Ashley,
RE: is retinoic acid stored?
Yes, I think retinoic acid is stored in the body, and it is documented to be accumulated in the sebaceous glands.
RE: AM I ridding my body of this toxin or am I repairing?
Both. The repairing process can take a long time. There is no quick fix unfortunately. But, I don’t think it is life-long either. I have a lot of confidence in the body’s amazing power to heal itself.
RE: Pressure/pain in the back of the eyes
I too suffered from that condition, and for years before I had any idea about vitamin A toxicity. Thankfully, that condition has now resolved for me. I’d say completely resolved by year two on my diet, but I’d say it was mostly resolved even after the first year.
Thanks for taking this diet on. I’d really appreciated it if you could post some follow-up progress reports over time.
Thanks
Grant
Will do, Grant. Thanks again. ❤️
~Ashley
Hi Grant,
Update on my zero vitamin A diet: For the past three weeks I’ve been consuming only rice, GF oats, buckwheat, pinto and kidney beans, macadamia nuts, cauliflower, and coconut water. I’ve noticed improvements in my fatigue, going from 14 hours of sleep total per day to on avg 8. It’s tough to say if my skin has gotten better, but I understand the skin takes a long time to heal so I’m being patient.
I have one question: if retinal palmitate is water soluble and not fat soluble, would the liver be able to store it or would it be stored in a different manner? From your books my understanding is that the liver store fat soluble vitamins.
I consumed a lot of retinal palmitate and I’m considering experimenting with activated charcoal but if it’s not in my liver I’m not sure there’s a point to using it.
Thanks
Bill
Hi Bill,
Thanks for the update.
You make a very good point regarding retinal palmitate being water soluble. Being as such much of it accumulates in the kidneys. And I believe that’s why there are now a staggering 30,000,000 Americans with various stages of kidney disease.
Agreed, activated charcoal might not be much help with regards to the retinal palmitate form of the “vitamin”. But, on the other hand, it still might be a little bit helpful by being down overall storage levels lower.
Interesting, I would think that’s bad news as the liver is much more durable than the kidneys. Do you think the kidneys will be able to excrete any of the stored poison or is it stuck there forever?
Another interesting point is that the retinal palmitate must be somewhat fat soluble as I’m certain it ended up in my sebaceous glands all over my skin.
Thanks for your help.
One last thing…. Did you suffer from mild sharp intermittent pain around the head? This is not so painful that I am using medication but it’s noticeable.
Thanks
Ashley
Yes I had prolonged but some what cyclic inflammation of the brain.
Hi Grant! Someone came to my blog recently, urging me to check out your work. Really fascinating stuff! I’m about halfway through your 2nd book, and hope to read your first book next (although I hate reading on a screen). I’m excited to become your next guinea pig 🙂
Hi Matt,
Thanks for reading.
Hi Matt, I found out about this eBook thanks to your blog.It’s definitely fascinating stuff. You say your happy to be the next guinea pig, does this mean your going to try a low vitamin A diet? Have you thought about how you might implement it?
I’ve been trying with it for about three days, it’s tough!
Thanks,
Lee
Hello — I have only been able to read some of your “Poisoning for Profit” book but believe that you are onto something very important that has the potential to help millions of people. But in order to reach those large numbers of people, I think you would also need to do a VERY abbreviated “quick start” version of the book (e.g. 10-15 pages). For those with severe brain-fog, even reading it over a long period of time (as you recommended to Marcia here) usually does not help, given the severe problems with concentration and inability to remember what they read 20 pages ago. You obviously have put a tremendous amount of time, energy, and heart into your work, but I think it will be inaccessible to many who are very ill; ironically, they may need to be healthier in order to be able to read your books.
If I could ask a few specific questions to help me get started, I would really appreciate it:
Just a little earlier here, someone mentioned another website re: Vit A toxicity. Some people there have experimented with various ways of trying to speed up the process of decreasing their Vit A stores. Two that I thought were very interesting were 7-Keto DHEA and Lion’s Mane mushrooms. Do you have any thoughts on those?
Re: milk. There is a local dairy here where I can get “cream top” whole milk and skim off the cream. My energy is extremely limited, and this is a way for me to get some of my protein via drinking it plain and adding it to protein drinks. It has added Vit D but no A. I know that’s not ideal (the added Vit D), but do you think it would be harmful?
In one of the chapters in PFP, it looked like you were going to talk about Vit K but then I couldn’t find any discussion of it. Helpful or harmful for chronic Vit A toxicity?
Thanks very much. I look forward to your reply.
I understand your concerns. I’ll try to find time to write up a very short version. I just don’t have a lot of spare time. In the interim, here’s the very short list of the highlights from my eBook.
Vitamin A is probably not a vitamin at all. The very earliest experiments used to make the original determination of it being a vitamin were completely botched. On the other hand, for over a hundred years now researchers have routinely and very quickly poisoned thousands of animals to death with the said to be “vitamin”.
Thus, it is clearly a toxin, and I can’t find speck of credible evidence to support the claim that it is a vitamin.
I believe vitamin A poisoning is responsible to most of our chronic diseases, including the big ones such as Alzheimer’s, diabetes, MS, Asthma, eczema, kidney disease, breast cancer, skin cancers, heart disease, stroke, and much more.
Much of my ebook was providing the backup evidence and logical thinking to support these claims.
The vaccine-vitamin A connection is hugely important, but it may not apply to you, so, you can ignore those chapters if you want to. However, my primary goal in writing the eBooks was to provide enough evidence to where people would be willing to experiment with this diet change, and then report their results.
I have no information or experience with 7-Keto DHEA or Maine mushrooms. Regarding the milk, personally I’d not take any chances with it. There’s very likely some retinol encapsulated in the milk casein protein, and that’s a very bad combination. There is an early study regarding vitamin K, and it did not prove to be helpful. However, vitamin C was. Zinc is reported to be helpful too.
The only recovery plan that I know of is going on a diet plan that includes very tiny amounts of vitamin A. There may be other measures to accelerate the detoxification process, but I’ve not tried them. And, detoxification is only the first phase of the struggle, the second phase is that you then need to give your body time to recover, and repair all the damage that’s been done. That repair phase can take a very long time. I think that most adults should plan on it taking a year or more.
I hope this helps you.
Grant,
Thank you for freely sharing the research that you’ve done. I hope to be able to provide personal feedback in the upcoming months.
Thank you for sharing this information, i really like the way your books are written. I am myself a victim of isotretinoin, mega-doses of vitamin A. My biggest side effect is a severe rosacea, that i have for more than 10 years. The fact that along the years the condition has progressed, means something was fueling it, I know now it was diet. (mine was quite rich on vitamin A) Although vitamin A liver storages are suspected in post-accutane community, no-one went as far in research in this direction as you and made an experiment like yours.
I wonder if copper plays a role in conjunction with it ( ex. “Modification of vitamin A metabolism in rats fed a copper-deficient diet.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3679695 ) It seems that my symptoms worsened after posing a few dental amalgams, rich in copper. Some people suspected copper as a culprit of their rosacea too.
Maybe the balance of micronutrients plays a role in what symptoms you will have (eczema vs rosacea vs crohn etc) ?
Hi Grant, thank you for your book and research, as a nutritionist I have read it with great interest.
I have been on a mineral balancing program for the past year by a ND I was working with and it involved vitamin A supplementation (mainly to bring down calcium levels). Over the course of the program I’ve noticed becoming more sensitive to the sun, burning very quickly.
After reading your book I’ve come to the conclusion that the vitamin A could be the culprit, as I have also some other signs. I was wondering if you’d be willing to share your sources about vitamin A causing photosensitivity? I’d be very interested in learning more about it.
Many thanks!
Hello LW,
The accumulation of retinoids in the skin is causing solar energy to be more rapidly absorbed. Although, many people are reporting that they are now much more sensitive to the sun, it is not because the sun has gotten hotter. It is simply because the skin lipids now directly contain a powerful UV receptor. Quite amazingly, you can probably actually see these built-up retinoids in your skin now too by using the right light source.
Here’s one source for supporting info:
Photodecomposition and Phototoxicity of Natural Retinoids.
Tolleson WH, Cherng S-H, Xia Q, et al.
International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health. 2005;2(1):147-155.
I highly recommend that you carefully read, or re-read, Chapter 13, Systemic scientific fraud in P4P. And especially so the section titled: Cancer Study Fraud in the
PHOTOCOCARCINOGENESIS
STUDY OF
RETINOIC ACID AND RETINYL PALMITATE
Thanks for the comment.
Grant
Thanks so much for sharing this, it is pretty scary!
I know that blood tests are rather useless for diagnosing toxicity – is there any way of testing this accurately?
Thanks again!
Please understand that we are breaking new ground here. What’s considered to be normal by the experts is probably completely wrong. In my view the most desirable serum levels are 0.0, and the same applies to the RBPs. Likewise, for measuring the tissue concentrations.
Grant, in another comment you said:
“The chronic diseases have absolutely nothing to do with a deficiency in vitamin D, or anything else. Vitamin D is just a by-product of the solar breakdown of so-called vitamin-A, and it binds to the same cellular receptors. Therefore, vitamin D only appears to be a vitamin because it is far less toxic than vitamin A. And vitamin D blunts the toxicity of vitamin A by blocking up the same receptors, and thereby rate-limits the conversion of vitamin A into the highly toxic retinoic acid form of the retinoid molecule.”
That’s very interesting about the “solar breakdown” of retinol — how does that work? Is there anywhere I can read more about that?
Also, do you think this “solar breakdown” of vitamin A process suggest that sunlight exposure could help accelerate the depletion of our vitamin A stores? Or that a lack of sunlight could be a contributing factor to quicker vitamin A accumulation?
Hi Frank,
Here’s a good report on the process.
Photodecomposition and Phototoxicity of Natural Retinoids. Tolleson WH, Cherng S-H, Xia Q, et al. International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health. 2005;2(1):147-155.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16705812
Yes, getting reasonable amounts of sunlight exposure on the skin would help breakdown the store retinoids therein. Obviously, you’d want to be very careful and not over do it too. And as I’ve documented you’d most certainly not want to use sunscreens either.
Yes, agreed, getting relatively frequent exposure to sunlight would help prevent the over-accumulation of the retinoids too.
Hi Grant
I found this today, which backs up some of your research: https://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/news/20030122/vitamin-bone-poison#1
I really appreciate all your work on this subject. I’ve read a fair amount of it (and learned a lot of useful info), and I’ll have to keep going back to it.
I have posted this article on my FB page, in hopes someone will pay attention.
I need to drastically cut back on my intake of Vit. A. I’m almost 72, and this past winter I had the most difficulty ever with eczema and other skin issues. Your e-books and articles here have certainly made sense of what’s been happening.
I’m visiting family for the next three months, but I’ll do the best I can until I’m home again.
Thanks Meighen
Just saw this YouTube video of a child who poisoned himself with multivitamin gummies. Backs up all of Grant’s arguments. https://youtu.be/mZ6nREONy_4
Hey Grant,
Not sure if anyone has shared this with you, but several years ago there was a scandal with cod liver oil. Many consumers were reporting all kinds of symptoms from taking cod liver oil (I bet you can guess most of them!). A couple of gurus recommending it died! The consumers concluded that the reason it was causing problems was due to it being fermented cod liver oil, and therefore oxidized. But after reading your work I know they were dead wrong. There is a huge compilation of testimonies here. Hundreds of them. http://www.cheeseslave.com/fermented-cod-liver-oil-scandal-many-fclo-customers-report-health-problems/
And you’ll absolutely LOVE this one. Tons of confirmation of your theory. http://www.cheeseslave.com/fermented-cod-liver-oil-scandal-cathy-raymonds-story-of-head-to-toe-skin-rash-homelessness/
Thanks Matt,
Yes, it fits with my experience. Except what ended up getting me was the over consumption of milk, eggs, spinach, and tomatoes. Just nuts. Someone should try to contact them and let them know that it was not just the FCLO that caused it, it was the vitamin A in the FCLO.
Grant
I’m going to be working hard to publicize your work in July Grant, once I’ve finished reading both of your books (200 pages to go!) and have a chance to write up a big summary. I have a large audience and wide reach, and it will reach a great deal of those misguided people. Several of my long-time followers are already very interested, and one person has even compiled a list of hundreds of foods in order of lowest to highest vitamin A content! Things should be getting very exciting around here soon.
Grant,
I just discovered that in some countries in Central America they fortify *sugar* with retinyl palmitate. Are you aware of this?
Source: https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/132/9/2927S/4687712
“Some countries in Central America decided to fortify sugar in the 1970s because other options were inappropriate: salt was consumed in very small amounts and its quality was inadequate; oil/margarine and wheat flour were neither widely distributed nor consumed by the most needy individuals; dairy products were scarce; and corn flour, although widely consumed, was mostly produced at home.
The Institute of Nutrition of Central America and Panama developed appropriate technology, promoted legislation, and established national programs in three countries (Guatemala, Honduras and Costa Rica).”
And then there’s this:
“To avoid promoting higher sugar consumption because of its fortification, it was initially forbidden to declare that the product contained added vitamin A”
How thoughtful of them.
It might be that the source of retinol in regions like the one referenced in your book with high Alzheimers incidence is that pernicious retinyl palmitate which has been added to some fortified staple food. That article discusses fortification of sugar, margarine, flours and oils.
And apparently they could be consuming it without even knowing because deliberately concealing the retinol fortification of a staple food has precedent in Central America (and who knows where else).
—
There’s a lot more disturbing info about fortification with retinol going on across the world in that article. A couple more examples:
• “Venezuela has had a national program fortifying precooked corn flour since 1993”
• “In the Philippines, wheat flour used in making the popular bread pandesal is fortified with vitamin A (4.5 mg/kg) to produce a pandesal fortified at 2.8 mg/kg. Daily consumption of 40 g of bread provides about 19% of the vitamin A RDI.”
• “The U.S. Title II Food Aid Program (U.S.PL480) has been fortifying wheat flour with vitamin A (SD-250) since 1969”
• “It has been recommended that at least 18 mg of vitamin A be added per kilogram of vegetable oil from the U.S. Title II Food Aid Program (U.S.PL480), providing about 50% of the RDI with an average daily ration of 16 g per person”
• “Today, sugar in households in Guatemala and El Salvador contains an average of 9 mg of vitamin A per kilogram, which contributes 45–180% of the vitamin A RDI for people older than 3 y of age (per capita sugar consumption ranges from 30 to 120 g/d). Sugar is now the main source of vitamin A even for infants and young children; it supplies ∼30% of the RDI.”
—
Also, you may be interested in this fact sheet about fortification of sugar with retinyl palmitate:
http://www.a2zproject.org/~a2zorg/pdf/Sugar.pdf
Which describes the chemistry of the process and also includes studies and charts documenting the effectiveness of the poisoning with retinyl palmitate.
Hi Frank,
Yes, I do know about that. It’s somewhat covered in my Vitamin-A supplementation in SE Asia, and South America chapter in P4P.
I’m quite sure that’s why there’s now about 350,000,000 people with diabetes and human fertility rates have been decimated too.
Did you see my proposed food label for vitamin supplemented SUGAR and MSG being sold in the regions?
Ah, sure enough, I had forgotten that that section applied to Central / South America.
It’s surreal to see the lengths to which they are going to push this retinol “supplementation”. Getting very hard to believe that they could be motivated by good intentions.
Real convenient for them that when the truth finally gets out about retinol toxicity, they can claim: “Sorry, we didn’t mean to poison / kill hundreds of millions of people. We we’re just trying to help. We thought it was a vitamin.”
Hi Grant,
First, thank you so much for all your amazing research! I stumbled upon your site as I was researching hypervitaminosis A and I have read both your books, fascinating stuff! I have been on a zero vitamin A diet for about 2 months now and have noticed many improvements in my health.
I had developed numerous food intolerances about 5 years ago, when I turned 50, probably caused at least in part by vitamin A toxicity. Many of the symptoms of food intolerance are similar to vitamin A toxicity symptoms. There are natural chemicals in many foods that people can be sensitive to; salicylates, amines and glutamates to name a few. I have followed a Failsafe diet (Free of Additives, Low in Salicylates, Amines and Flavor Enhancers) for the past 4 years. Interestingly this diet is also very low in vitamin A, unless you eat liver and/or take vitamin supplements. I did very well on this diet until I started eating liver and taking cod liver oil (because it is so good for you!). Two months ago I developed a non-itchy rash on my face which was the tipping point that caused me to research hypervitaminosis. When I came upon your site all the pieces started to fit together! I had so many of your symptoms, mental fog, low energy, forgetting words and very bad sleep. Just a few weeks on the zero A diet and I had so much more energy and a clear head. I also don’t get stuck trying to find the right words to say in conversation. My face is vastly improved, but still a bit of a rash (rosacea), I imagine it will take a little longer to recover.
We also put our old dog (who seemed to be getting alzheimer’s quite rapidly) on a zero A diet of homemade food. He is much more alert now and no longer stands out in the rain staring into space. It’s impossible in the US to get pet food that is not supplemented with vitamin A
Also I wanted to let people know of a few more foods that have zero A; celery root, chayote and pealed pears. Rutabagas and white onions are also extremely low, but not quite zero.
Thanks again for all you have done, it’s much appreciated!
MaryAnn
Thank you MaryAnn
MaryAnn,
You should look into the Raw Meaty Bone diet for your dog — which, not coincidentally, happens to be very low in vitamin A (as long as you don’t feed them liver). It’s based on the idea that canines are carnivores and should eat a diet similar to their wild ancestors, wolves.
You can research more about it by searching for B.A.R.F. Diet (Biologically Appropriate Raw Food) or R.M.B. Diet (Raw Meaty Bone).
Or you can read the book Give Your Dog a Bone by Ian Bilinghurst or take a look at introductory websites like: https://perfectlyrawsome.com/
There are also many videos on youtube demonstrating how much dogs love this diet and thrive on it. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94C79Aovfv4
—
I was planning to post a comment on this blog about the raw meat and bone diet for dogs because it actually adds further evidence to Genereux’s theory.
It seems that canines (wild and domesticated) can thrive on a low retinol diet and, furthermore, research shows that they have interesting means of biological protection against retinol.
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5090096/
“Carnivores appear to be the class of animals most tolerant to high dietary VA [Vitamin A]. Work in the domestic cat indicates increased VA tolerance compared with other species due to the ability to increase metabolism and excretion of VA and maintain higher concentrations of circulating retinyl esters in blood [16, 17]. Cats increase urinary and fecal excretion of VA when consuming large quantities, as evidenced by the increased excretion of retinol, retinyl esters, and more polar retinol conjugates in cats dosed orally with 3H-retinol [16]. Retinol and retinyl esters have also been measured in the urine of the dog, silver fox, blue fox, and raccoon dog, while no VA was detected in the urine of cows, sheep, horses, rabbits, and rats [18, 19]. No more than trace amounts of VA have been observed in human urine with the exception of cases of pneumonia, kidney disease [20], or infections causing diarrhea or proteinuria [21], when retinol appears to be excreted in urine associated with RBP.
Carnivores also store tremendous amounts of VA in the liver at much higher concentrations than have been found in livers of noncarnivores. This fact is well-known among northern native people and polar explorers, who have found that consumption of polar bear and seal liver causes acute toxicity. […]
Vitamin A tolerance is likely protective for wild carnivores, which may sporadically
consume large amounts of VA from the liver of prey species.”
—
After learning about Grant’s theory and about the raw diet for dogs, I wondered whether dogs actually want / like to eat liver because many on the internet claim that wolves do.
Compared to the many videos of dogs excitedly eating raw meat and bone, there are very few videos on youtube of dogs eating raw liver, and in the few that do exist I have yet to see a dog excited about the offer of raw liver. (I have seen videos of cats readily eating raw liver, but based on the research above, they might be even more “immune” than dogs.)
There are several videos showing dogs that clearly don’t want to eat raw liver (even though their foolish owners think they’re doing good by feeding it to them). In nearly all cases I’ve seen, the dogs refuse or ignore raw liver. In a couple cases, their owners trick them into eating it by chopping it up and stuffing it into other food or by cooking it or by feeding it to them frozen (which I assume works to trick them because it masks the smell which dogs obviously rely on).
Examples of dogs not wanting to eat liver:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LBPTllzpwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG_ppQAoOyA
Another video talks about how it’s a “common problem” for dogs to not want to eat liver and organs (which seems to be the case indeed).
I know this isn’t rigorous science — just “youtube research” — but I still find it interesting as another possible piece of evidence.
It’s suggestive that carnivores (animals which due to their diet would be most susceptible to retinol poisoning) have biological adaptations tested and honed by millions of years of evolution that give them powerful protections against retinol ingestion — namely excretion and enhanced liver storage capacity. And many dogs seem to demonstrate the “instinctual knowledge” to avoid eating raw liver in bulk.
Hi Frank,
That’s very interesting. I’ve read an account accounts of people who were forced to eat dogs, and they ate the liver from dogs. The result was that it quickly burned their skin off.
Also, when a polar bear in the arctic is killed, the ravens will pick away at the carcass until it’s clean down to the bones. But, oddly, they won’t touch the liver. So, even the birds have learned not to eat it.
A new diet craze of late is eating only ribeye of beef and water. One of the most famous and stunning examples of the diet is a woman named Charlene Anderson. She had terrible eczema and asthma and other health conditions and claims to have grown up “loving organ meats.” But now she doesn’t eat them because she’s noticed they cause inflammation. Check the comments where she states that…
http://meatheals.com/2018/02/04/charlene-andersen/
She has eaten only ribeye and water for something like 15 years, and so has her husband. If that’s not proof that vitamin A isn’t an essential vitamin I don’t know what is.
As far as instincts kicking in to prevent the consumption of liver, watch this poor kid Frank, who eats only raw meat but insists that eating organ meats with it are essential (and has published multiple videos touting the importance of high dietary consumption of Vitamin A). He can’t even eat it without washing it down with water! And that’s saying something, as he started the meal eating raw brains and enjoying that just fine….
https://youtu.be/e2T5SRpBk70?t=9m47s
Here’s another link about Charlene and her family. Her kids have only had beef and water too, and are 8 and 10 years old when this article was written. And the husband and wife have had no vitamin A in 17 years!
https://gistonice.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/when-eating-only-meat-becomes-a-way-of-life-family-lives-on-only-meat-for-the-past-17-years/
Hi Grant,
I’ve now been on a zero vitamin A diet for 2 months. Unfortunately I’ve seen little improvement over that period. Symptoms i am still suffering from include fatigue, brain fog, psoriasis/sebhoreic dermatitis on scalp, blurred vision.
I’m trying to figure out if there is something I am unknowingly doing wrong in the diet. I’m consuming cauliflower daily for vitamin C and I’m concerned there may be Vitamin A in that. I use a b12 supplement that has natural berry flavor in it, concerned that may have vitamin A also.
Other thoughts I’ve had are I had more of a build up of vitamin A then you did and therefore it is taking longer to recover. Also, I’m concerned about iodine deficiency so I’m gonna get that tested.
Question: Did you ever try using the preparation H on your scalp? I am considering trying this, as I have not found a good way to treat the symptoms of psoriasis as the vitamin A clears.
Thanks,
Bill
Hi Bill,
I’m sorry to hear that you’ve not seen any improvements yet.
No, I did not try prep-H on my scalp. But, it is very important to know that the prep-H sold in the USA is not the same as that sold in Canada. The version sold in Canada has activated yeast termed BioDyne. That in the USA does not.
Please let me know how things work out for you,
Grant
Hi Bill,
It’s possible you might have one or more food intolerances in addition to the vitamin A toxicity. Cauliflower contains salicylate which is a chemical found in many plants and is very similar to aspirin. Salicylate intolerance can manifest as fatigue, brain fog and skin problems. Here are a couple of good web sites if you want to investigate further:
http://www.failsafediet.com/the-rpah-elimination-diet-failsafe/
https://www.failsafetable.com/rpah-failsafe-diet
I am on a zero vitamin A diet, also grain free. I eat beef, celery root, chayote and peeled pears.
Hi Grant
On the subject of speeding up the process of detoxing excess stored A, what do you think of those liver & gallbladder flushes (olive oil, lemon, Epsom salts)? They are not without risk, as a “stone” could become lodged in a duct, but the improvements that people report from doing many flushes makes me wonder if the benefits are coming from reducing their stored A?
I have no idea about the flushes. But, I’m super curious about hearing if they are effective or not. Clearly, attempting to detox from VA by diet alone is very slow.
Thanks
Grant
Hi Grant,
I’m revisiting your site because I’m rethinking all of this. After having some inflammatory reactions to other foods I came across information on histamine intolerance which then led me to info on leaky gut and the issues that presents. Which include many symptoms and the chronic illnesses.
I’m wondering now if the problem isn’t a leaky gut rather than a Vitamin A toxicity in many cases. Or at least in some. It seems to make sense that the digestion would be impaired given GMOs, facory farmed animals that are fed food they were never meant to ingest and therefore can’t digest. So it makes them sick and in turn makes us sick.
That aside though, milk, eggs and tomatoes are actually very common foods to react to when someone has leaky gut.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just thinking down different avenues and wanting to know what you think. Also, what really made me question all of this is that when I eat ground beef (pasture raised from a local farmer) I seem to be fine…no reactions. But when I eat certain cuts of steak (from same farmer) I get an inflammation reaction and heart palpitations. These are the reactions I get when I eat something I can’t tolerate, along with itchiness on an eczema spot that has been healing.
The palpitations I’ve figured out are reaction to certain foods, particularly cooked fats. Including olive oil. So if the steak is fatty I get palpitations as well. But the big tell tale for me when I react to something is my ankles swell.
So if it’s Vitamin A that’s the culprit of all these things, and I do react to things high in Vitamin A, like chicken, a little with eggs, citrus fruits are really bad for me and some veggies.
My thinking is that I’m reacting to the rendered fat in the steaks, since they are fatty cuts. I know you wouldn’t know what is going on exactly and obviously I could be reacting to more than just Vitamin A. Someone with histamine intolerance can react to any food that isn’t completely fresh because the longer it sits, the more histamines it develops.
Just trying to make sense of it. Tonight I ate a sirloin steak from local farmer, for dinner and didn’t really eat much of the fat. However, not only did my ankles swell and I got arrhythmia symptoms, I also felt itchy on the patch of eczema that has been healing. Anyway, any input or thoughts would be welcome.
Thanks.
Hi Aura,
Thanks for getting back in touch and for the questions
RE: Leaky gut as opposed to VA toxicity:
Of course, I continue to investigate this topic, and there’s just now mountains of overwhelming evidence that VA is the primary culprit in the chronic diseases. I believe that it causes leaky gut too.
However, I don’t believe that VA is acting alone in all of this either. There are many other aspects and other contributing factors.
One thing to keep in mind is that since it took decades of accumulation to get into a toxic state, we should expect that it is going to take a long time to detox from it too. And that there are really two major phases to recovery. Phase one is getting the retinoid levels back down to a tolerable level where they are not causing inflammation. Phase two is giving the body the time it needs to repair the damage to the organs and tissues. So, even if we had an antidote, it would still take a significant amount of time to fully recover. But, we need to start somewhere, and a restrictive diet is all I know of right now.
Please keep in mind that beef fat does contain some VA too. I think corn-fed beef would be worse. Thus, why I changed to bison.
I hope this helps.
Grant
It would make sense that it would take a long time to detox from something like this. I agree. I also agree that it must be more than just the VA toxicity alone.
I am really frustrated and confused by some things though.
The frustration comes from the histamine intolerance. There are things that are VA free or even very low that are high in histamine or give me the histamine response. So it makes the list ever so small for me.
The confusion is seeing people seeming to heal eating nothing but meat and even raw meat. And meat contains vitamin A. I mean there’s a whole niche dedicated to what is being called the carnivore diet. Have you seen anything about this? Inflammation is going down, people are losing weight, feeling and looking better.
I have some issues with it as I stated although I think the fat being cooked is a factor, as I also mentioned.
There’s this one guy, who was vegan for a while. Not sure how long. But he went completely 100% raw carnivore…eats raw eggs, raw liver and other organs and raw muscle meat too. Oh and raw butter. If you watch his videos from when he is vegan he is very dark and depressed, slow in his thinking. Now that he eats a raw carnivorous diet he seems to be thriving. If you’re interested his channel name is sv3rige. He has a video talking about VA too.
I am also confused about natural VA in animal foods. It makes sense to me that the beta carotene in plants would not be something our bodies can use, as well as supplements, made in a lab. But the A in liver. Idk, I’m still trying to make sense of all this.
I saw in one of your reply comments though that you went from having receding gums to not having receding gums. That got my attention for sure because I’m dealing with that.
Hi Aura,
RE: the histamine intolerance.
I too experienced this. Even just my regular deodorant was causing a big histamine response.
RE: carnivore diet.
No, I had not heard about this. But, even though meat has some vitamin A, is it extremely low. So, if a person just ate one 12 oz steak a day, and nothing else, they’d be very low compared to most other people eating a mixed diet.
RE: Fried fats
I don’t know for sure, but I think a slow cooker would be safer.
RE: Guy eating raw liver
It is just a matter of time….
RE: Liver
The liver is the body’s detoxification organ. It accumulates toxins for later safe disposal once other resources (bile salts and fats) are available. Thus, the liver is the body’s trash can. There’s no way we should be eating that.
RE: receding gums
Yes, confirmed. That’s what first got me to start drinking more and more milk. Anyways, that condition has now resolved for me, and my teeth are now feeling much stronger and smoother too.
I’m sorry that you are frustrated. Obviously what’s needed is an antidote. In the mean time, all I can suggest is to find your small collection of safe foods, and give it time.
Thanks
Thank you so much for this detailed reply to each point in my comment. Very thoughtful of you. I will take your advice. Thanks again.
Grant,
A couple questions I’ve been meaning to ask:
1. Do you have any idea what the average daily usage of retinol is in the human body? Or what would you estimate it to be? I tried researching this but couldn’t find a good answer.
2. I wonder if you’ve thought about this question: If retinol is toxic, why is it in human breast milk? Wouldn’t the human body be smart enough not to poison a baby with it?
Actually now that I think about it – perhaps the reason it is found in breast milk is because the tests are being run on populations that consume too much. And perhaps a mother on a low vitamin A diet would have no vitamin A in her breast milk. Still though, it’s not being “filtered out”. Perhaps, the human body uses breast milk as a method to get rid of the toxin — but its at the baby’s expense, though, not sure if that makes evolutionary sense or not.
Getting rid of retinol seems to be quite a problem for humans. Why is that? Why does it seem to want to hold on to it and store it everywhere? Is it just because it’s fat soluble? Does it have no good way to get rid of excess?
Hi Frank,
RE: Average daily usage:
Yes, it is documented to be 0.5% per day. So, in 200 days a person should have depleted their stores of it (But that’s not exactly true IMO)
RE: Vitamin A in Breastmilk
Oh yes, I’ve thought about this a whole lot. It’s actually a key aspect of an upcoming blog post. Until then, the short answer is that yes it is just a fat soluble molecule, as is lead, PCB’s, dioxins, etc. For example; see https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1247564/
RE: The detoxification of retinol is slow for humans.
Yes, we’ve recently vastly over done it on consumption side. That has overwhelmed the normal detoxification pathways.
Quick follow-up re: the 0.5% per day depletion rate. What would you estimate that to be in Vit A IU’s on average?
I’m thinking that would give us an estimate for a daily threshold where if you over-consume your increasing your retinol stores, if you under-consume you’re depleting them. Also, it might be helpful as a safe limit on a “cheat day” for those of us less disciplined 🙂 or less severely sick.
Also, would that daily consumption amount be the “Genereux RDA of Vitamin A” for healthy people? If not that, what do you think is a safe amount of retinol and/or carotene for healthy people to consume (because presumably most of the unhealthy should be on a depletion diet)?
Hi Frank,
I’ve add a forum page as you suggested. Thanks.
As for a RDA recommendation, I think it is highly dependent on a person’s dietary history, and their current health status. If you are young and healthy, then your body can safely deal with a lot. Otherwise, I think it would be wise to be very low on the consumption side.
I continue to be on my zero, or near zero, diet just to continue with my experiment, and not out of necessity.
Thanks again
Grant
Grant,
So I have adopted a (near) zero vitamin A diet since a few weeks and notice some improvements. For my main concern though , rosacea, it will be very slow, if ever possible. One of my symptoms is that my face almost completely lacks sweat. Do you think that my sweat glands were burned by RA? Another thing, since accutane I don’t have acne, but it returns when I take biotin. It seems to increase skin oiliness, but I struggle to understand,would that be beneficial to eliminate more RA or not. Any idea on that?
About three years a woman who had severe rosacea had also adopted my diet. She was didn’t go completely zero, but close. She also had a condition called TMJ, that’s a significantly twisted jaw and a crooked smile. She had a lot of pain in her heck and jaw too.
I recently had a follow-up call from her. BOTH her conditions are now resolved. Her jaw has straightened out.
I also am completely convinced that acne is caused in the first place by too much vitamin A. It causes the sebaceous glands to swell, and load up with lipids. It also causes the immune system to locally back down.
For now, all I can recommend is diet and time.
That gives me hope! On my affected areas I can literally see (and feel on touch) the skin thickening that you talk about in your book. As for TMJ, that must come from some nerve damage, (maybe that’s the reason too I cannot sweat from face), amazing that she could reverse it.
Here’s another interesting case study that matches up with Grant’s theory.
Jordan B. Peterson’s daughter, Mikhaila, had a lot of serious health problems starting at a very young age — among other things, she had severe depression and fatigue and had “autoimmune” arthritis so bad she had to have her hip and her ankle replaced when she was 16.
She eventually tried an extreme elimination diet — starting with the usual suspects like wheat and dairy and legumes, and eventually found that her symptoms improved most when she stuck to a diet of just meat and “greens”. (Since then, she has eliminated the greens as well and on her blog she claims she’s been on an all meat diet — mostly beef — for 6 months.)
In short, this elimination diet cured all her problems and she’s off all her medications, including anti-depressants and arthritis meds. And she convinced her dad to try the diet, and it cured him of his fatigue and depression and several other autoimmune symptoms as well.
If we apply Grant’s vitamin A theory, then it follows that the Peterson’s elimination diet worked because they were eliminating vitamin A even though they don’t even know that it is the root cause. They seem to suspect that the carbs are to blame, but I still think its much to Mikhaila’s credit that she arrived at this diet through a process of elimination without having encountered Grant’s research.
Here is a short interview with Jordan about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw8Rf9h0-Sk
Here is a longer interview with both Jordan and his daughter, Mikhaila, where they talk about their experiences in more detail:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6g_geYeL4U
And here is Mikhaila’s most recent blog post where she talks about the benefits she and her dad have gotten by eating only meat (mostly beef, because they both report problems from chicken and salmon, which both have some vitamin A):
http://mikhailapeterson.com/2018/06/18/6-month-carnivore-update/
Also, she is collecting testimonials on her site that seem like they will (inadvertently) serve as further proof of Grant’s theory.
Here is another Jordan Peterson video that is even more recent. He is interviewed by Joe Rogan and they discuss how he and his daughter have now eliminated the “greens” and as of the last few months they are now eating a beef-only diet (plus water and salt) and have seen even more improvements.
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGikB-54Lwk&w=640&h=390]
Is soy sauce ok
Probably not.
Hi. My toxicity came from using too much retin A. Would the vitamin A be stored in my fat cells or liver? Every time I eat foods that contain vitamin A in it, my symptoms get worse within 10 minutes of eating. My symptoms are hairloss, headache, severe IBS , blepharitis, seborrheic dermatitis. Will diet cure this?
I’m sorry. I can’t answer your personal question.
Why isn’t soy sauce ok? All nutrition sites say it has no vitamin a. And the ingredients are just water, salt, soy, and wheat. and soy and wheat are already low VA foods.
OK. Fine. My mistake. The brand I had looked at included fish oil. That’s why I had ruled it out.
Thanks for the clarification.
Grant
Oh ok. I’ve never heard of soy sauce with fish oil before, that sounds kind of interesting and disgusting at the same time lol. What brand was that?
Am,
Check out this blog and the read through the comment section. Yes, other people have become ill from topical retinol and have found relief from avoiding all retinol (and beta-carotene). You should probably adopt a low vitamin A diet until you feel better and perhaps a while longer to create a buffer for your liver to better handle vitamin A when you do start eating it again. https://www.healthextremist.com/how-i-got-vitamin-a-toxicity/
Thanks Evan for that. I will take a look at that site. I think I got confused about the site, but glad you’ve pointed me in the right section. I will try a low vitamin A diet, it’s hard but definitely worth a try. Thanks.
Are raisins good? You mentioned them in your first book but not the second
That’s good question. I think raisins should be OK, if they are truly sun-dried.
How come raisins dont have vitamin a when grapes do? What happens to the vitamin a when the fruit is being dried? And why does it have to be sun-dried, i only have access to mechanically-dried raisins. Do they have vitamin a in them? Thank you very much for your time.
I meant mechanically steamed
Yeah, it’s hard to know for sure. You could contact the producer and see if they can provide you more information on their specific product. Even still, small amounts taken without fats in the same meal are probably not too much of a concern.
Thanks again
I see you mentioned raisins in the first book but not the second. Did you change opinion on them? I think it would be really helpful if you could write like a short 2-3 page tract with the central information and a list of what foods to eat. It’s very hard to read books when you have chronic fatigue and the information doesn’t stick anyways.
I think raisins are going to be pretty safe. Yes, I know that it’s too much to read. I’ll try to develop a short version. But, I’m just one guy, and I don’t have a lot of free time.
isn’t there any other vitamin or molecule that could chelate vitamin A? I heard vitamin D is an antagonist of vitamin A, maybe vitamin D supplements could help to detox more rapidly ? what do you think
I’m not sure. The vit D thing also a bit of a heated topic for some people. I did not take vit D while detoxing from vit A, so I don’t have first hand experiences with it.
it’s weird though most starches and fruits have tons of vitamin A, and people in africa, asia and indonesia eats alot of these but they don’t have as much auto immune problems.
there is also a link between low vitamin D and auto immune diseases, maybe people in hot countries can tolerate more vitamin A because they produce more vitamin D
so the lack of vitamin D and overdose of vitamin A in western countries could explain that there are more of these issues
i have chronic fatigue / neuropathy / brain fog and so on (got these after a vaccine 5 yrs back) and I remember that most of my symptoms were gone after taking a shot of high dose vitamin D last year, it lasted a few months but symptoms came back and I couldn’t reproduce that experience 🙁
RE: most starches and fruits have tons of vitamin A
That is not true. Rice and regular potatoes have zero. But, this is not the place for debates. Thanks
Just a thought regarding sources of vit A / betacaroten:
palm oil is listed as very high in betacaroten. Palm oil has 15430 micrograms per 100 g (ca 3,5 oz), carrots have 8695 micrograms per the same (according to matkalkyl.se). That is almost twice as much as carrots.
Palm oil is VERY common is processed foods. Even though at least in my country the industry has began to use coconut oil (and sun flower seed oil) more after alarming research regarding palm oil and cancer was released recently.
Coconut oil is not listed but coconut milk is listed with 2 micrograms per 100 g which is practically nothing.
As for retinoleqivalents (vit A), lamb’s liver tops the list with 49014 micrograms per 100 g. Beef liver has 18234 micrograms.
Hi Alisah,
Thanks for the sharing that info. I knew that Red palm oil is very high, but did not realize that the other forms are too. Very good to know.
Grant
Hi Grant,
It would make sense being red palm oil with high levels of betacarotene. But it doesn’t specify it in this list. It just says palm oil. Maybe another list can clarify?
I have had som very weird symtoms for years. Worse then than now but lately i am losing my short term memory again, cant find words. And my eyesight is really shitty since starting working with IT (due to the screens or due to the many free carrots i have been munching on simce I started this job?)
Def an interesting theory, where individual differences probably are relevant. I have become aware of my ginormous veg intake and have cut it down drastically.
Hi Grant,
Here is a study I think you’ll find very interesting (if you haven’t already seen it).
A New Deficiency Disease Produced By The Rigid Exclusion Of Fat From The Diet
George and Mildred Burr, 1929
http://www.jbc.org/content/82/2/345.full.pdf
It is a study which supposedly demonstrates a “new disease” caused by a “deficiency”, but in this one the authors claim it is a deficiency of certain fatty acids that cause (and prevent) the disease.
The experiment design, the diet design, and the disease results are all suspiciously similar to the 1925 Wolbach and Howe study you debunked.
Two quotes about the diet design:
• “The stock colony is maintained on McCollum’s Diet I (whole ground wheat 67.5, casein 15, whole milk powder 10, butter fat 5.2, calcium carbonate 1.5, sodium chloride 0.8).”
• “Vitamins A and D are furnished by the non-saponifiable matter from high grade cod liver oil. The non-saponifiable matter from 0.5 gm. of the oil is fed to each animal in a week.”
Sure seems to me like this be another case of false conclusions of “essentiality” drawn from inadvertent retinoic acid poisoning.
By the way, I found this study thanks to an article by Ray Peat wherein he debunks the claim of “essential fatty acids” by other means than your retinol theory — he points to studies which show no ill effects from a deficiency of these fatty acids and studies which actually prove the opposite.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturatedfats.shtml
If you’re not familiar with Ray Peat’s research on polyunsaturated fatty acids — the gist of it is that he debunks the claims that they are essential for health and attempts to prove that they are actually damaging to our health.
The claims of “essential fatty acids” being necessary for good health persist to this day. The top Google result for “essential fatty acids” says:
“Two essential fatty acids, linoleic and alpha-linolenic, cannot be synthesized in the body and must be obtained from food. These basic fats, found in plant foods, are used to build specialized fats called omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. Omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are important in the normal functioning of all tissues of the body. Deficiencies in these fatty acids lead to a host of symptoms and disorders including abnormalities in the liver and the kidneys, reduced growth rates, decreased immune function, depression, and dryness of the skin.
Sounds familiar, ay?
The similarities sure are piling up.
Deficiency experiments in the 20s. Using McCollum diet. Demonstrating severe disease and death. Conclusions of “essential” dietary factors.
Those so-called “essential” dietary factors are subsequently promoted to the public and pushed into the diet of the populace over the course of a century in spite of any and all evidence contradicting their claims and in spite of evidence proving the opposite and demonstrating these “essential” factors to actually be toxic and to be factors causing disease.
I’d greatly appreciate your thoughts on this one.
Thanks.
In the above I meant to say: “seems to me like this *could* be another case of false conclusions of “essentiality” drawn from inadvertent retinoic acid poisoning.”
But I must have accidentally deleted it.
HI Frank,
I agree, and yes, it’s sounds all too familiar.
The ridiculous process they go through to purify the casein used in that experiment is complete insanity. I can almost not believe what I’m reading in that report. Basically, they’ve brewed up this incredibly toxic mix of casein, toluene, hydrochloric acid, fed it to rats, and quickly killed them with it. And then they conclude; damn, aren’t we smart, we’ve proven the critical need for fats in the diet.
I wonder how much retinoic acid the created in their zeal for purifying the casein? As far as I can determine, retinoic acid was not discovered until around 1946/47. So, back in 1929, these researchers sure weren’t considering that possibility. I think these people were mad men and completely clueless, and showed absolutely no respect for nature. Too bad they didn’t try out that special diet on themselves. If they had, maybe we’d have a whole lot less disease chronic disease today?
Thanks
Grant
Regarding the cauliflower can I only eat the “head” or the green leafy part too?
No. I would not eat the green leaves.