I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Another new one, this time from Europe
@jessica2I
It does appear you poo poo Grant's theories. Which is fine that is your right as it is my freedom to respond to you. It's also my freedom to point out where you have a made a mistake. Eczema is a sign of vitamin A toxicity. You stated eczema isn't caused by vitamin A.
It doesn't irk me that you have other possible reasons for recovery. Health is obviously multi-factorial. Probably a good way to prove Grant isn't just allergic to milk would be to add in unfortified raw skimmed milk and see how he does for a few months. That will have very little toxic vitamin A or other damaged stuff. But I doubt he will try it because he thinks some retinol gets bound to casein.
And my theory is that if it was an allergy it's because the body is reacting to the protein slipping past a leaky gut which is inflamed by vitamin A. Same as it is for gluten intolerance. So going carnivore doesn't even prove vitamin A isn't toxic because the gut could still be inflamed but you take away the most allergenic things about a diet and overall inflammation could be much lower. The real test is whether someone can add back in milk, gluten, and grains without that inflammation coming right back. And so far Grant has proved his inflammation didn't come right back with gluten. Which was my whole point in even commenting on this thread.
@jessica2
I am certainly not trying to convince you to eat a low vitamin A diet with foods you feel like crap on. Of course not. I've been pondering all of this since 2018 when I found Grant. I'm glad I did find him though. I was still trying to consume liver I was even taking a multi with added vitamin A at the time I found him. But it wasn't until really working on my bile that I was able to cure anything. So no I don't think just not consuming vitamin A will cure everyone's problems. But I don't think eliminating gluten and dairy cures anything either. The problem comes right back if they eat it again. I've seen it time and again. One family member gets a swollen thyroid when she eats anything with gluten. She has massive hair loss and hashimotos. Going gluten free didn't solve it, but it may keep the inflammation at a reasonable level. Which is better than nothing.
Do you ever wonder WHY people are reacting to a laundry list of foods? Karen Hurd explains it's everything in the bile recirculating for yrs and yrs and yrs. Here is a very important quote about allergens:
"Karen Hurd: how do we get these foreign proteins cleared, they are cleared out liver they're placed into the bile the bile goes to your gut you eat soluble fiber in the form of beans and you throw that out of your body and so then you don't have these gatherings so as you will get older and older and older it used to be doctors would say oh they're allergic as kids they'll grow out of it no they grow now you're growing into more and more allergies because you never get rid of what you have and so you have to start getting rid of those and you say but I can't eat beans because they're high histamine food well histamine is a protein guys it's a protein and so there's histamine in almost everything you eat and I can't have leftovers because leftovers are higher in histamine yeah but if you had been throwing away all of these foreign proteins that are dead that cannot reproduce themselves all these years you would never have any of these issues and then as your life goes on you have all of these recycling proteins and histamines from when you were 10 years old 12 years old 14 16 18 now you're in your 40s and you've got all of those circulating from a couple of decades ago plus you're exposed to new ones and then you just you get to the straw that breaks the camel's back it's like if I have one more dead foreign protein in my body I cannot clean them all out of the bloodstream my body just goes oh everything an enemy we're going to attack everything you're all alive because obviously you're reproducing there's so many of you you're like a bacteria you're reproducing multiplying at these quick rates so we're going to kill you and we're going to push out all these a histamine which is a protein and that's actually a cellular modulator that will actually kill the bacteria or the virus but it wasn't a bacteria or virus it's a piece of dead dog dander dog dander does not beget dog dander in your bloodstream but because it's multiplying in such a great way they think it's alive your body mistakes it for being alive but it's actually dead so what's the answer eat your soluble fiber people.
Unique Hammond: can it take a while to get out of the cycle??
Karen Hurd: it takes a while you can't get over it in a day because you know when we say eat beans and first of all people say the beans are too high in histamine if you really do have a response to them then do this do the psyllium husk, it has no histamine and so you can do that but we say eat your beans three times a day that's excellent but you recycle your bile depending on the motility of the person 20 to 72 times a day so you eat beans three times a day good girl excellent well done well you carry it three out of 20 times so the other 17 times you recycled it all and you say well I'll eat beans you know six times a day well that's good that's six out of 20 it's better than three out of 20 but what if you're one of the ones that recycle it 72 times a day woo we got a lot of eating of beans to go. "
So you solve the underlying cause.. toxic bile and you heal your liver, you heal your intestines, you heal your kidneys, your life gets better.
I don't think Grant would have done as well just eliminating gluten and dairy with no other changes. Though I have seen people recover from some serious bowel issues if they were celiac.
@jessica2
Yeah the carbs in beans is fiber isn't it? So it isn't going to your blood stream as glucose. I tried convincing my husband to eat beans on his carnivore diet but he wanted to be meat only. (although he eats a lot of mustard!) I think the microbiome can adapt to no fiber and you still eliminate some bile toxins, but not nearly as much as someone consuming fiber. Vegetable fibers are good too.
Actually Karen Hurd went on the one of ones podcast, he is a low vitamin A coach. She kinda nodded her head about the vitamin A stuff as if she knew but I'm not so sure what she really knew about it.
It's worth mentioning that after an initial period of eliminating eggs Karen Hurd is enthusiastic about eggs. The best timing may differ for different people and different problems. In general choline from eggs and folate from beans being very helpful for detoxing. Phosphatidylcholine (PC) is crucial to toxic bile theory (see my post in Eggs for Vitamin A reduction - 23/8/24). With nutrition there are so many confounding factors. One experiment can seem like it's supporting one theory but you've inadvertently removed another factor. I mention this because I got eczema on the low vitamin A approach and kept thinking it was bile leaks until I found the histamine intolerance theory. And I reduced the histamines and the dryness and eczema went away. Too much mature cheese and I get a bit of dry skin at my ankle and it itches. I had bad itching a lot of the time before and during the low vitamin A approach. Grant has eliminated many of the histamine liberators like tomatoes, bananas and mature cheese. The foods he eats are generally okay for my now minor histamine issue.
Salicylates are another cause of leaky gut problems and eczema. Mustard as an example is high in salicylates. Probably with only the occasional apple Grant is also low in salicylates. Black beans are low.
Did you read the quotation from Karen Hurd? She explained histamine intolerance. The problem is when we aren't getting rid of stuff it accumulates and then the littlest thing pushes us over into an allergic situation.
"oh they're allergic as kids they'll grow out of it no they grow now you're growing into more and more allergies because you never get rid of what you have and so you have to start getting rid of those and you say but I can't eat beans because they're high histamine food well histamine is a protein guys it's a protein and so there's histamine in almost everything you eat and I can't have leftovers because leftovers are higher in histamine yeah but if you had been throwing away all of these foreign proteins that are dead that cannot reproduce themselves all these years you would never have any of these issues and then as your life goes on you have all of these recycling proteins and histamines from when you were 10 years old 12 years old 14 16 18 now you're in your 40s and you've got all of those circulating from a couple of decades ago plus you're exposed to new ones and then you just you get to the straw that breaks the camel's back it's like if I have one more dead foreign protein in my body I cannot clean them all out of the bloodstream."
She also explains that just consuming fiber with your meals three times a day is NOT going to cut it. The bile recycle upwards of 72 times a day. So you got rid of a little more 3 times out of those 72 times. It's just not going to make a difference. That's why her protocol is eat some beans or psyllium every 20 minutes. Then you carry it out many more times and the bile is then clearing up, then you can get to the place where you can eat tomatoes, hard cheese and not notice anything. But who actually sticks to this protocol? Not very many that's why we aren't seeing the raving reviews. But I have seen them and it's from those who really wanted to heal and they did the protocol to the 'T'. I haven't gone all in yet because of the inconvenience of trying to get the fiber in that often. I guess I can jut get used to carrying around a bag of beans. I just prefer my food warm.
So that's why Grant needed yrs to heal. Because he was only eating beans what 2-3 times a day? It's just going to take a LONG time doing that.
Jenny Jones tried to do Karen Hurd's protocol precisely about 3 times and it didnt work for her. It could be a number of factors: low choline (probably true for Jenny), low magnesium, low potassium or low B1. I think good motility might be pre requisite. Although the total beans may be still the same just spread out over the day. So if you can handle 20 grams of fibre then it may work for you.
Quote from Jiří on August 25, 2024, 4:03 am
Well there is a context for doing it every 20 minutes. It's not a blanket recommendation, the context was histamine intolerance in that quote. But she recommends this a lot for women with excess hormones and stress. What is your context? Are you healthy? If you are then you would never need to do the protocol.
That being said, low bile flow is a problem that would need to be fixed. Humans have to be squirting bile upwards of 72 times a day! That's why blockages in this system can be so deadly. Those with bile flow problems may need to do coffee enemas first before trying out soluble fiber like I did. I had toxic bile and even a small amount of whole grains, beans, psyllium, or nuts would cause IBS-C. I am cured of that problem now. Nuts are still a bit of a trigger but I haven't eaten them in yrs so that's not surprising.
So I had something interesting happen, I stopped the beans for a whole day. I had a surge of stress hormones that caused the feeling of being wired and tired, and shaky, within 5 minutes of eating them I can feel like they are calming. I think Karen Hurd is right they mop up stress hormones. We eliminate those hormones in the bile. And if you don't clean that very well due to bad gut microbiome then those just re-circulate. I'm going through a lot of stress right now, and I think the soluble fiber have made it far easier to get through than it would have been without them.