Quote from Deleted user on August 21, 2024, 1:45 pm

Quote from Jessica2 on August 21, 2024, 9:05 am

@joe do you avoid dairy and gluten now?

Yes.  At my most acute pain 11/2022, I gave up dairy.  Retried toward end of 12/2022 and pain returned with vengeance.  

Gave up gluten decades ago to excellent effect.  Never saw a reason to go back.  Good glutinous grains are too difficult.  Standard American grains suck without even considering gluten.

Quote from Deleted user on August 21, 2024, 2:11 pm

Quote from Luis2 on August 21, 2024, 12:35 pm

Quote from Joe on August 20, 2024, 10:14 pm

Quote from Luis2 on August 20, 2024, 9:20 am

Quote from Andrew B on August 20, 2024, 7:43 am

Going too low vitamin A in the first place isnt a good idea. It backfires for about 50% of people including me about the 2.5 years mark. In my group there's less problems when you replenish choline and betaine first. So I wouldnt eliminate 1-3 eggs a day. We recommend about 50-75% of RDA initially. Grant did low vitamin A to prove a point but it's not the best way to detox according to liver practitioners.

Thanks Andrew. The thing is that I don't think I've taken so much of it lately, so I need a way to know if my problem is Vitamin A and the path is going to worth it, or not. That's why I thought a shock diet would be better. Maybe I could try a shock diet first, and if the problem improves, I know the problem is VitA, and I can reintroduce it at low amounts...

 

I forgot to say that my headaches are usually accompanied by mouth sores (canker sores), or times when beard hairs get inside the skin and become infected. I guess that would be inflammation on the mouth or the skin, but I don't know.

When getting the mouth sores, I make a pot of chicken soup.  1 gallon distilled water, salt, 1 whole organic chicken, juice of 1 lemon.  Lysine in chicken seems to be the thing.  I clean the chicken of bones and eat the meat in the next couple days.  I put the broth in quart jars in the refrigerator and sip as needed.  The sores go away quickly.  

I was keto paleo 12 years before finding Grant and Garrett Smith 12/2022.  I went low vitamin A as fast and hard as I could.  My problems were acute and dire.  Working with Garrett and his blog posters on nutritiondetective.com was invaluable.   I am still there.  My first couple months, I focused on and pled with everyone to find a way to slow down my liver detoxing the retinoids.  It took persuasion and patience.  Once I started getting good results I realized they are right.  It is much better to rebuild the digestive tract and increase the excretion of the toxic bile rather than slow down how much toxic bile the liver dumps into the system.  As long as the colon is pooping out the retinoids faster than the liver is dumping them life keeps improving.  

That is where charcoal, soluble fiber and magnesium, potassium and other nutrients that retinols deplete come in.  

I ran across this testimonial last week and got permission to repost it elsewhere tonight.  Peter asked that I leave his last name out and that I note that he is eating carnivore + psyllium.

I suggest you stop the ibuprofen completely now.  It is slowing down your liver and making the pain worse long term and probably soon short term.  Pharma are not our friends.  

The kidney stones and the hemorrhoids have everything to do with the retinols.  Oxalates and nightshades are also probably not helping.  When the liver is falling down on the job, the kidneys and skin try to take up the slack.  I have passed stones (some horrific) since 2003.  My most frequent stones were daily starting 11/22/2022.  After 6 months on low vitamin A working with Dr Smith and all my stones stopped.   Previously I was passing sand in my urine with 5 to 10 stones the size of flax seeds daily.   A few zingers the size of rice grains every week just to keep my attention.   During that time, my stones were a secondary symptom to isotretinoin induced sacroiliitis.   When I started improving in March of 2023, all my symptoms faded progressively faster.  I have passed zero kidney stones since then.  I have had zero kidney symptoms since then.  Everything is still improving. My testimonial is on here somewhere.   

Glad you are here and learning fast.  Please do not eat eggs nor bacon.  The fraudulent science folk who measure for vitamin A in foods routinely do not measure all forms of vitamin A.  Pork has far more vitamin A than they show.  I find it increasingly humorous that anyone discusses nutrition based on RDA's from people that Grant has clearly proven are frauds.   Grant has taken in 1000 times less vitamin A for ten years than the RDA's require.  By these science fraud standards, Grant went blind 9 years ago and died 8 years ago from vitamin A deficiency diseases.  

Good luck and see you around.  Hope to see you on the Love Your Liver network on Garrett's blog.  It costs $100/yr and is well worth it.  Also Garrett has weekly livestreams where he answers questions and deals with related topics.  Today was livestream #160 and dealt with copper toxicity, what binds copper and how much better life gets.  And it does.  Garrett also has excellent threads on Twitter @nutridetect

htt

ps://www.

youtube.c

om/watch?v=T33iqL81j8g

For some reason the link above needed to be broken.  Seems like youtube is messing with us again.   The link below works fine.

(22182) Love Your Liver Livestream #160: Bind Copper = Less DISEASE! Testimonials! Subscriber Q&A! - YouTube

These are free and many of us use them in a do it yourself mode.  

Thank you.  Do well and see you around.

 

 

 

Peter
Member

Home
I have been on the diet now for 2 years and 8½ month. The last couple of months I have had days, where I feel incredible well. Today is one of them. It is just insane so good one can feel when the level of toxins comes below a certain level. Bile seems to flow very well.

I came to this forum to get help with xanthalasma that had evolved for about a year. It is gone now, except for a couple of small, almost invisible patches that only I can see. It will also soon be gone.

I was born with jaundice and for more that 50 years liver paté and carrots were some of my favorite foods that I ate almost daily, as they are considered stable foods here in Denmark. I have also been eating a lot of eggs and whole livers. This year, for the first time since I was a kid, my skin was not yellow during the winter.

I'm curious about what my serum level of vA is, but unfortunately it is not possible to get that tested here.

Posted Thu, August 15

 

Thanks! A lot of very good advice...

Is there a table that I can trust that show VitA and retinoids in the food? I'm using this one (in spanish), but I don't know if I can trust it...

https://www.cun.es/chequeos-salud/vida-sana/nutricion/alimentos-ricos-vitamina-a

 

Yeah, I'm trying not to use pharma, and get rid of the Ibuprofen, but for now I need it because I've been more than 2 months with headache. I cannot wait to return home (I'm on vacation with the family) to start cutting on VitA to see if something improves...

Thanks!

Have seen some tables on vA content.  Not alot of reason to trust them.  Easier to go by sense.  The more colorful the more danger.  As far as animals go look at their diet.  Hogs concentrate vitamin A from many sources.  They are omnivores.  Best to avoid bottom feeders or environmental filters.  So shellfish is bad.  Ever seen the video of two tanks of sea water?  Both full of cloudy messy dirty water.  One tank has clams dropped into it.  Within hours the water is crystal clear.  All that dirt in the water is now in the clams.  So not carp.  No pigs.  Mostly it comes down to Kosher Food Law.  Guessing there were good reasons with long experience before those laws were written down.  

As to ibuprofen, it will not be easy at first.  It will get easier faster though.   Might be worth getting off the ibuprofen before playing with vitamin A reduction and depletion.   

Old LYL montras of Garrett's. 

Poison on the way in and poison on the way out.  Whatever toxins we take in are going to hurt when we take them in until the liver pulls them out of blood and stores them safely.  How much it hurts when the liver gets those toxins out will be a function of how well the liver is working and how well the rest of the excretory organs are working.  

The poison always wins.  Many clients in their first months ask us if it is ok to eat more vitamin A or copper if they just eat additional magnesium, potassium, zinc, soluble fiber, charcoal,....... all the things that help up deplete the stored vitamin A and copper.  The short answer is no.  It is not a good idea to continue taking in a toxin with the idea of cushioning the blow.  In the race to get poison out anyone who is still taking poison in will lose that race against the poison.  It is a losing bet.  

Ibuprofen is impairing your liver.   Even Joe Rogan and a number of his guests have established this.  It is lowering your pain tolerance and increasing the injury to your liver.  It is impairing the liver's ability to get toxins, including ibuprofen out, let alone to process those toxins safely in packaging.  Same as liver packages retinoic acid in RBP, retinol binding protein.  Unbound retinoic acid is what shredded Grant's skin and kidneys.  And my sacroiliac and kidneys

Quote from Luis2 on August 21, 2024, 2:34 pm

Quote from Joe on August 21, 2024, 2:11 pm

Ibuprofen is impairing your liver.   Even Joe Rogan and a number of his guests have established this.  It is lowering your pain tolerance and increasing the injury to your liver.  It is impairing the liver's ability to get toxins, including ibuprofen out, let alone to process those toxins safely in packaging.  Same as liver packages retinoic acid in RBP, retinol binding protein.  Unbound retinoic acid is what shredded Grant's skin and kidneys.  And my sacroiliac and kidneys

Thanks a lot. I'll try to not use it at all. Removing VitA and Ibuprofen at the same time. We'll see!

Quote from Janelle525 on August 22, 2024, 7:24 am

Quote from Jessica2 on August 21, 2024, 4:19 pm

So, you and Grant both abstain from gluten and dairy and have had better kidney outcomes. 

I think Jason Fung really knows what he's talking about haha.

We should see Grant's kidney disease come back then on the massive amounts of gluten he is eating now?

Quote from Andrew B on August 22, 2024, 7:59 am

@janelle525 A few people including me have found they can now tolerate gluten again. Grant by eating sourdough which I also find is easier to digest. When I gave up gluten 25 years ago I did get sore kidneys but never as far as kidney disease. Now there's definitely no pain in kidneys involved in eating a reasonable amount of organic spelt and sourdough bread each day. I do put it at least partially down to reducing the high level of carotenoids and reducing high vitamin A.

Quote from Janelle525 on August 22, 2024, 9:15 am

Quote from Jessica2 on August 22, 2024, 8:37 am

@@janelle525 Possibly. Grant doesn't see a kidney specialist regularly. 

It could be also that he's allergic to the dairy albumin. He described his diet before as having a lot of milk.

I wouldn't characterize his diet right now as having "massive amounts" of gluten. When he was eating exclusively bread he said he was eating a third of loaf of bread a day. But even now he doesn't eat that much he said he often swaps out rice for bread so he probably eats a good mix of both and probably even eats less than a third of a loaf a day overall as average.

My point wasn't how much bread he consumes just that he is able to now. I guess I shouldn't have said massive amounts. My point was that if it was lectins you'd expect that not to just go away. It seems you don't think vitamin A is a problem at all. I have wondered if it was the dairy that caused it, but you have to wonder why does someone not tolerate dairy? Milk has been a staple food for thousands of yrs. It is this question that I think Grant has attempted to answer with the vitamin A is toxic theory. And no not every food on the list of allergens is high vitamin A, but some of them are gut irritants, if the gut is destroyed then you'd expect IBS, crohn's, ulcerative colitis, acid reflux, gallbladder disease, eczema, autoimmunity, because digestion sucks. So a trigger food doesn't have to be high in vitamin A to cause a problem. It's the leaky inflamed gut. That's why I have been focused more on leaky gut, bile flow and inflammation than anything else, but I am still cautious about vitamin A. It's clear that it's breakdown products can cause a lot of disease, we do still need to figure out what causes those breakdown products to be harmful. We forget that Grant did find that study that showed betaine, methionine and choline to be rescue agents. Maybe a diet high in animal protein protects from the toxicity of vitamin A. But then you'd think milk protein is protective too, but that doesn't seem to be the case for a lot of people. There are so many unknowns at this point. 

All I know is that I couldn't consume acacia gum, beans, whole wheat or whole nuts without insane cramping and I've been cured of that. I don't qualify at all of the diagnosis of IBS anymore. That only took less than 6 months of adding soluble fiber to my diet. Previously I just ate a diet with very little fiber and ate a higher carb higher saturated fat diet mainly, but my liver was becoming burdened, my IBS was getting worse, my constipation got very bad before I switched to the toxic bile theory. I had been using betaine hcl leading up to this change but it didn't resolve my constipation or IBS by itself.

As a side note: This is also why I think intuitive eating can cause disease, I would love to eat cheese and soda (my favorite snack!) and ice cream everyday, it was clear this was  goinnotg to work out in the end. That's what I would eat everyday of my life if I could. YUM, but no it wasn't working. It saves someone from anorexia and that's about it. When I'm 80 I will eat that diet again and savor every moment of it lol! But if I want to live to be 80 I will eat my beef beans and rice with a little dairy.

Quote from Janelle525 on August 22, 2024, 11:41 am

@jessica2

Actually Eczema tops the list from this textbook about vitamin A. 

 

Quote from Janelle525 on August 22, 2024, 12:19 pm

Quote from Jessica2 on August 22, 2024, 11:57 am

This textbook also says Vitamin a is needed and symptoms occur when deficient. Do we believe this too or only the part that would bolster certain ideas about it being poison?

It says those symptoms should appear when not eating enough everyday. Why doesn't Grant have not even one thing from the list of deficiency symptoms? I think that is the bigger question. We all realize that if we develop blindness the theory is debunked. 

Quote from Janelle525 on August 22, 2024, 12:33 pm

Quote from Jessica2 on August 22, 2024, 12:26 pm

But you're ready to explain away Margos low serum VA and night blindedness to other factors. Why?

Because blindness in vitamin A deficiency should go along with other symptoms keratinization of the skin, impaired immunity, extremely dry eyes which causes bacterial infection of the glands before it ever causes blindness. A problem with seeing well in the dark could be more than vitamin A deficiency. And yes her serum was pretty low but not as low as some others on the diet. I am experiencing dry eyes without night blindness though sometimes when I open my eyes at night it takes a minute to adjust. I will be testing my serum levels to see if anything correlates. My diet has not been low enough to cause deficiency though. So I do still think Grant is on to something. But we won't know until we have many people with verified low serum levels and no blindness or keratinization or impaired immunity.