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Antidote?
I started to use evening primrose oil on my skin from today on. I still have very dry skin on my lower legs and no oil or fat has made it go away, so I will try this...lets see!Also using it on my face. It has a little added vitamin E in it, they did not have any other brand here in the shop, but I think its fine because I might need some vitamin E too after so many years on mostly beef.
I also bought hemp seed oil, organic and cold pressed, but its very dark green and makes my skin feel a little funny, not immediately, but later? Like its sticky soapy somehow.... idk...? I guess it has lots of carotenoids, which I am not so longing for... so i stopped using it for now, lets see.
I wonder how much carotenoids 1 teaspoon of hemp oil would have, if taken internally.
Has anyone of you come across an article or a post about the ratio's / percentages of the fatty acids in cell membranes? Got my test back and it's pretty useless without the reference values, preferably given by one of those alternative practicioners. It only gives one for omega 6 to omega 3. Which is standard western diet ratio for me, 16 : 1. Coming off carnivore into the bean heavy diet for a few months so not too surprising.
Did some search engine results but couldn't find the reference values personally.
Peskin states "each cell membrane contains 25-33% parent essential oils"
Reference: Alberts, Bruce, et al., Molecular Biology of the Cell, Garland Science,
New York, NY, 1994, page 428.
Here is chapter 6 of his book PEO Solution, since I got it free (can't remember why) I would think it is okay to post?
Click to access Chapter-6-Power-of-the-Parents.pdf
"When tissue analysis is performed, the average
person has approximate 11:1 Parent omega-6 to
Parent omega-3 in tissues and organs. Humans
REQUIRE much more Parent omega-6 than Parent
omega-3. In fact, most Parent omega-3 is oxidized
(burned for energy)—unless the excess is so great
that it can’t all be used, and a portion is improperly
incorporated into tissue."
@jessica2
can't wait to hear your progress report
Quote from Jessica2 on April 25, 2023, 1:17 pm@inger I'm doing the evening Primrose oil, sesame (untoasted) oil and grapeseed oil. I'm actually staying away from omega threes right now. Which would be hemp and walnut seeds. For me personally when I eat walnuts it seems like my scalp gets itchy and irritated. I do eat fish once a week and occasionally flax meal. But I really overdosed on cod liver oil, though that was a year ago, however, maybe my membranes are still suffering so I am just concentrating on omega sixes right now and I'm having some great results which I will detail in a thread in a week or so.
@jessica2, that is interesting, because i ate heavy fatty fish based (every day fish, often 2 times/day) for a couple years recently, I probably overloaded on omega 3 too, because last 2 years since, I am not really wanting seafood much, it makes me feel not so good. Probably my body trying to tell it has too much of omega 3.... maybe thats why the hemp oil feels weird on my skin(and I dont feel like eating it either)! Evening primrose feels great, olive oil too.
I too am so curious of your report 🙂
Edit: Do you take Evening primrose oil internally and externally, both?
Quote from Jessica2 on April 26, 2023, 3:38 am@inger yes, both internally and externally. Once upon a time I put flax oil on my skin...I didn't like the feeling or results either.
I eat salmon about twice a month. Mostly because my daughters really like it. I don't think it has amazing health benefits, but I'm not sure. I don't feel terrible after eating it either. The other seafood I eat is shrimp and mussels, sometimes tilapia in fish tacos, canned tuna in olive oil in sandwiches.
I've long suspected that it might be some other factor of CLO besides high VA wrecking my health, but couldn't figure it out. Omega 3's were supposed to be much needed in our modern diets. I thought the tablespoon per day I was taking would cover the omega 3/6 imbalance we supposedly all suffer from. Suffice it to say I understand it in context a bit better now. Not only the VA of it but also the high omega 3 content explains so much of the symptoms I had.
@jessica2
I once some time ago stumbled upon someone hypothesizing that too much omega 3 in a world full of nnEMF (wifi, 5G etc) is very harmful.... I cant remember why he said that. Its a couple years ago but I kept it in the back of my head. I wonder if it could be something to it.
Anybody here having an idea why it could be? What is it that can happen when those very long chain fatty acids in our body that are so vulnerable, if they get radiated 24/7 in the way our modern life plays out today?
The world is not the same as it was 50 years ago at all. Or even 10 years ago. The radiation has increased massively. Maybe we need to adapt different eating styles too, to better survive this.
@jessica2
LOL I only got chapter 6 free! I did end up purchasing the pdf of the whole book though.
Misc. findings.
Not sure how we are expected to know all variables when it comes to eating. Sigh.
Right as I started to go down the PUFA pathway many months ago, it was like Smith knew because out of nowhere he started making plugs in his live streams about the toxic byproduct of PUFA's, namely malondialdehyde, as well as posting statements like this -
"PUFAs turn into malondialdehyde
Malondialdehyde irreversibly inhibits (aka "kills") ALDH
Therefore, PUFAs speed the development of aldehyde toxicity problems, which includes vA toxicity"
"PUFAs oxidize into malondiALDEHYDE
Malondialdehyde is an IRREVERSIBLE INHIBITOR of ALDH
This is how seed oils hurt people, but still, no one talks about the aldehyde/ALDH angle"
Kind of scared me a bit...
Here is the study he posted to support his findings.
https://sci-hub.st/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0378427482900078?via%3Dihub
conclusion: "malondialdehyde was found to apparently irreversibly inhibit the low Km mitochondrial ALDH of rat liver. The enzyme was susceptible to marked inhibition at low (1- 15 PM) concentrations of malondialdehyde. These findings may explain the mechanism responsible for the decrease in low K, mitochondrial ALDH activity following chronic ethanol ingestion."
If anyone reads the study, could you please help me to understand why we would avoid PUFA's based on this study? I feel like there is some backward thinking going on here. As far as we know, the EFA's are essential/necessary for us, comprising 25-33% of our cellular membranes. Wouldn't it make more sense to find ways to minimize the damage caused by the inevitable toxic by-products of lipid peroxidation? Avoiding PUFA's, seems equivalent to avoiding eating, drinking, sleeping, and breathing because they have the potential to create toxic by-products or contain them within.
This is where my lack of scientific understanding comes in but as far as enzyme inhibition goes, wouldn't we make more enzymes to replace the inhibited ones? I thought we made enzymes from proteins? The cycle of life...born, grow, serve some purpose, break down, die.
******************************************************************************************
Found this study and since eating meat seems preferential/encouraged/recommended...
Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and heme iron induce oxidative
stress biomarkers and a cancer-promoting environment in the colon of rats
highlights "the prominent role of heme iron as anoxidation catalyst" of PUFA's.
https://sci-hub.st/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0891584915000891
Thoughts: Budwig diet. Animal product discouraged with the exception of quark (which is non heme, virtually fat free - low VA, very low copper & manganese).
******************************************************************************************
The next two studies, how to lower malondialdehyde production from meat.
Two of Smith's favorites. Malondialdehyde ("kills" ALDH) plus polyphenols (slow ALDH) in one study.
Study #1
A novel function of red wine polyphenols in humans:
prevention of absorption of cytotoxic lipid peroxidation products
"We investigated the impact of red wine polyphenols on postprandial cytotoxic lipid peroxidation products (MDA) levels in humans. In a randomized, crossover study, the effect of red wine polyphenols on postprandial levels of plasma and urine MDA was investigated. Three meals of 250 g turkey cutlets supplemented by water (A); soaked in red wine after heating plus 200 ml of red wine (B); or soaked in red wine prior to heating plus 200 ml of red wine (C) were administered to 10 healthy volunteers. Subject baseline plasma levels of MDA were 50 +/- 20 nM. After a meal of turkey meat cutlets, plasma MDA levels increased by
160 nM (P<0.0001); after (B) there was a 75% reduction in the absorption of MDA (P<0.0001). However, after (C), the elevation of plasma MDA was completely prevented (P<0.0001). Similar results were obtained for MDA accumulation in urine. Our study suggests that red wine polyphenols exert a beneficial effect by the novel new function, absorption inhibition of the lipotoxin MDA. These findings explain the potentially harmful effects of oxidized fats found in foods and the important benefit of dietary polyphenols in the meal.—"
https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17712060/
Study#2
Coffee polyphenols protect human plasma from
postprandial carbonyl modifications
https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23322503/
I have not read the following studies yet, but wanted to list them to have in this posting.
@Andrew posted this in the LYL network :
"betaine helps reduce malondialdehyde (MDA) considerably"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166432820303983?via%3Dihub
and
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6719041/
Chole Stasis in the LYL network posted this:
******************************************************************************************
Magnesium, Vitamin C, Selenium, Zinc (anti-oxidants) prove to be beneficial.
******************************************************************************************
If you have insomnia I have some reading material that will cure it. I attemped to get an understanding of Lipid peroxidation by reading these papers - way above my pay scale.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066722/#B352
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5319403/#:~:text=An%20emerging%20strategy%20to%20prevent,at%20sites%20prone%20to%20oxidation.
Interesting to note - another lipid peroxidation product even more cytotoxic than malondialdehyde, 4-hydroxy-2-nonenal (4-HNE), has physiological and protective function as signaling molecule stimulating gene expression and cell survival, as well as a cytotoxic role inhibiting gene expression and promoting cell death.
4-Hydroxynonenal, a lipid peroxidation product of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids, has anticarcinogenic properties in colon carcinoma cell lines through the inhibition of telomerase activity☆
https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19733043/
******************************************************************************************
Things are not all good or all bad, but usually both, probably by design.
Quote from PJ on May 3, 2023, 12:01 pmMisc. findings.
Not sure how we are expected to know all variables when it comes to eating. Sigh.Right as I started to go down the PUFA pathway many months ago, it was like Smith knew because out of nowhere he started making plugs in his live streams about the toxic byproduct of PUFA's, namely malondialdehyde, as well as posting statements like this -
"PUFAs turn into malondialdehyde
Malondialdehyde irreversibly inhibits (aka "kills") ALDH
Therefore, PUFAs speed the development of aldehyde toxicity problems, which includes vA toxicity""PUFAs oxidize into malondiALDEHYDE
Malondialdehyde is an IRREVERSIBLE INHIBITOR of ALDH
This is how seed oils hurt people, but still, no one talks about the aldehyde/ALDH angle"Kind of scared me a bit...
Here is the study he posted to support his findings.
https://sci-hub.st/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0378427482900078?via%3Dihubconclusion: "malondialdehyde was found to apparently irreversibly inhibit the low Km mitochondrial ALDH of rat liver. The enzyme was susceptible to marked inhibition at low (1- 15 PM) concentrations of malondialdehyde. These findings may explain the mechanism responsible for the decrease in low K, mitochondrial ALDH activity following chronic ethanol ingestion."
If anyone reads the study, could you please help me to understand why we would avoid PUFA's based on this study? I feel like there is some backward thinking going on here. As far as we know, the EFA's are essential/necessary for us, comprising 25-33% of our cellular membranes. Wouldn't it make more sense to find ways to minimize the damage caused by the inevitable toxic by-products of lipid peroxidation? Avoiding PUFA's, seems equivalent to avoiding eating, drinking, sleeping, and breathing because they have the potential to create toxic by-products or contain them within.
This is where my lack of scientific understanding comes in but as far as enzyme inhibition goes, wouldn't we make more enzymes to replace the inhibited ones? I thought we made enzymes from proteins? The cycle of life...born, grow, serve some purpose, break down, die.
******************************************************************************************
Found this study and since eating meat seems preferential/encouraged/recommended...Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and heme iron induce oxidative
stress biomarkers and a cancer-promoting environment in the colon of ratshighlights "the prominent role of heme iron as anoxidation catalyst" of PUFA's.
https://sci-hub.st/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0891584915000891
Thoughts: Budwig diet. Animal product discouraged with the exception of quark (which is non heme, virtually fat free - low VA, very low copper & manganese).
******************************************************************************************
The next two studies, how to lower malondialdehyde production from meat.Two of Smith's favorites. Malondialdehyde ("kills" ALDH) plus polyphenols (slow ALDH) in one study.
Study #1
A novel function of red wine polyphenols in humans:
prevention of absorption of cytotoxic lipid peroxidation products"We investigated the impact of red wine polyphenols on postprandial cytotoxic lipid peroxidation products (MDA) levels in humans. In a randomized, crossover study, the effect of red wine polyphenols on postprandial levels of plasma and urine MDA was investigated. Three meals of 250 g turkey cutlets supplemented by water (A); soaked in red wine after heating plus 200 ml of red wine (B); or soaked in red wine prior to heating plus 200 ml of red wine (C) were administered to 10 healthy volunteers. Subject baseline plasma levels of MDA were 50 +/- 20 nM. After a meal of turkey meat cutlets, plasma MDA levels increased by
160 nM (P<0.0001); after (B) there was a 75% reduction in the absorption of MDA (P<0.0001). However, after (C), the elevation of plasma MDA was completely prevented (P<0.0001). Similar results were obtained for MDA accumulation in urine. Our study suggests that red wine polyphenols exert a beneficial effect by the novel new function, absorption inhibition of the lipotoxin MDA. These findings explain the potentially harmful effects of oxidized fats found in foods and the important benefit of dietary polyphenols in the meal.—"https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17712060/
Study#2
Coffee polyphenols protect human plasma from
postprandial carbonyl modificationshttps://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23322503/
I have not read the following studies yet, but wanted to list them to have in this posting.
@Andrew posted this in the LYL network :
"betaine helps reduce malondialdehyde (MDA) considerably"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166432820303983?via%3Dihub
and
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6719041/Chole Stasis in the LYL network posted this:
******************************************************************************************
Magnesium, Vitamin C, Selenium, Zinc (anti-oxidants) prove to be beneficial.
******************************************************************************************
If you have insomnia I have some reading material that will cure it. I attemped to get an understanding of Lipid peroxidation by reading these papers - way above my pay scale.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066722/#B352
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5319403/#:~:text=An%20emerging%20strategy%20to%20prevent,at%20sites%20prone%20to%20oxidation.Interesting to note - another lipid peroxidation product even more cytotoxic than malondialdehyde, 4-hydroxy-2-nonenal (4-HNE), has physiological and protective function as signaling molecule stimulating gene expression and cell survival, as well as a cytotoxic role inhibiting gene expression and promoting cell death.
4-Hydroxynonenal, a lipid peroxidation product of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids, has anticarcinogenic properties in colon carcinoma cell lines through the inhibition of telomerase activity☆
https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19733043/
******************************************************************************************
Things are not all good or all bad, but usually both, probably by design.
EFAs, so called, are not essential, and cell membranes can be made with other fatty acids.
Quote from salt on May 3, 2023, 1:36 pmQuote from PJ on May 3, 2023, 12:01 pmMisc. findings.
Not sure how we are expected to know all variables when it comes to eating. Sigh.Right as I started to go down the PUFA pathway many months ago, it was like Smith knew because out of nowhere he started making plugs in his live streams about the toxic byproduct of PUFA's, namely malondialdehyde, as well as posting statements like this -
"PUFAs turn into malondialdehyde
Malondialdehyde irreversibly inhibits (aka "kills") ALDH
Therefore, PUFAs speed the development of aldehyde toxicity problems, which includes vA toxicity""PUFAs oxidize into malondiALDEHYDE
Malondialdehyde is an IRREVERSIBLE INHIBITOR of ALDH
This is how seed oils hurt people, but still, no one talks about the aldehyde/ALDH angle"Kind of scared me a bit...
Here is the study he posted to support his findings.
https://sci-hub.st/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0378427482900078?via%3Dihubconclusion: "malondialdehyde was found to apparently irreversibly inhibit the low Km mitochondrial ALDH of rat liver. The enzyme was susceptible to marked inhibition at low (1- 15 PM) concentrations of malondialdehyde. These findings may explain the mechanism responsible for the decrease in low K, mitochondrial ALDH activity following chronic ethanol ingestion."
If anyone reads the study, could you please help me to understand why we would avoid PUFA's based on this study? I feel like there is some backward thinking going on here. As far as we know, the EFA's are essential/necessary for us, comprising 25-33% of our cellular membranes. Wouldn't it make more sense to find ways to minimize the damage caused by the inevitable toxic by-products of lipid peroxidation? Avoiding PUFA's, seems equivalent to avoiding eating, drinking, sleeping, and breathing because they have the potential to create toxic by-products or contain them within.
This is where my lack of scientific understanding comes in but as far as enzyme inhibition goes, wouldn't we make more enzymes to replace the inhibited ones? I thought we made enzymes from proteins? The cycle of life...born, grow, serve some purpose, break down, die.
******************************************************************************************
Found this study and since eating meat seems preferential/encouraged/recommended...Dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids and heme iron induce oxidative
stress biomarkers and a cancer-promoting environment in the colon of ratshighlights "the prominent role of heme iron as anoxidation catalyst" of PUFA's.
https://sci-hub.st/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0891584915000891
Thoughts: Budwig diet. Animal product discouraged with the exception of quark (which is non heme, virtually fat free - low VA, very low copper & manganese).
******************************************************************************************
The next two studies, how to lower malondialdehyde production from meat.Two of Smith's favorites. Malondialdehyde ("kills" ALDH) plus polyphenols (slow ALDH) in one study.
Study #1
A novel function of red wine polyphenols in humans:
prevention of absorption of cytotoxic lipid peroxidation products"We investigated the impact of red wine polyphenols on postprandial cytotoxic lipid peroxidation products (MDA) levels in humans. In a randomized, crossover study, the effect of red wine polyphenols on postprandial levels of plasma and urine MDA was investigated. Three meals of 250 g turkey cutlets supplemented by water (A); soaked in red wine after heating plus 200 ml of red wine (B); or soaked in red wine prior to heating plus 200 ml of red wine (C) were administered to 10 healthy volunteers. Subject baseline plasma levels of MDA were 50 +/- 20 nM. After a meal of turkey meat cutlets, plasma MDA levels increased by
160 nM (P<0.0001); after (B) there was a 75% reduction in the absorption of MDA (P<0.0001). However, after (C), the elevation of plasma MDA was completely prevented (P<0.0001). Similar results were obtained for MDA accumulation in urine. Our study suggests that red wine polyphenols exert a beneficial effect by the novel new function, absorption inhibition of the lipotoxin MDA. These findings explain the potentially harmful effects of oxidized fats found in foods and the important benefit of dietary polyphenols in the meal.—"https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17712060/
Study#2
Coffee polyphenols protect human plasma from
postprandial carbonyl modificationshttps://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23322503/
I have not read the following studies yet, but wanted to list them to have in this posting.
@Andrew posted this in the LYL network :
"betaine helps reduce malondialdehyde (MDA) considerably"
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166432820303983?via%3Dihub
and
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6719041/Chole Stasis in the LYL network posted this:
******************************************************************************************
Magnesium, Vitamin C, Selenium, Zinc (anti-oxidants) prove to be beneficial.
******************************************************************************************
If you have insomnia I have some reading material that will cure it. I attemped to get an understanding of Lipid peroxidation by reading these papers - way above my pay scale.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4066722/#B352
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5319403/#:~:text=An%20emerging%20strategy%20to%20prevent,at%20sites%20prone%20to%20oxidation.Interesting to note - another lipid peroxidation product even more cytotoxic than malondialdehyde, 4-hydroxy-2-nonenal (4-HNE), has physiological and protective function as signaling molecule stimulating gene expression and cell survival, as well as a cytotoxic role inhibiting gene expression and promoting cell death.
4-Hydroxynonenal, a lipid peroxidation product of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids, has anticarcinogenic properties in colon carcinoma cell lines through the inhibition of telomerase activity☆
https://sci-hub.st/https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19733043/
******************************************************************************************
Things are not all good or all bad, but usually both, probably by design.
EFAs, so called, are not essential, and cell membranes can be made with other fatty acids.
I am aware that the idea of PUFA's as a necessary factor in our health is up for debate in many circles out there, especially the ones originating from Ray Peat. That is why I called this post Antidote, because if it is simply an antidote, then that does not make it something that is necessary for our health (and Grant may very well prove that to be the case.) The reality is, though PUFA's are in virtually every food (even the foods Grant is eating), albeit in some pretty minuscule quantities.
I am sure that our cell membranes may very well be made with other fatty acids, but does that make it a healthy cell membrane.
FYI. Essentiallity only means our body cannot manufacture it, so we need to get it from our food. So EFA's are in fact essential.
P.S. I would genuinely like to hear your story. How long have you been low VA? What brought you here, what success have you seen, where are you still looking to see improvement?
Quote from Jessica2 on May 3, 2023, 3:27 pm@pattycake The oils used in that 2nd study are corn oil, safflower oil, and rancid fish oil. They even say the rats didn't eat much of the fish oil/feed combo because it was stinky and presumably rancid. There's no way of knowing whether the corn and safflower oils were heated/rancid and how they were gotten. My guess is that if they are conventionally heat or hexane extracted and processed oils that this study would indeed prove all of them would have very negative consequences on health markers.
I just wanted to point out with that study that heme-iron in meat, fish, and poultry serves to oxidize PUFAs (which are also in meat). But you are correct in that rancid oils would definitely factor into producing more of the toxic by-products and could skew some of the results.