Quote from YH on January 22, 2019, 4:21 pm

Update: I think I'm gonna end the experiment. I may leave small amounts of butter, but I will probably cut milk and cheese down to a couple times a month. I only seemed to benefit from dairy after I hadn't had it for a while. It felt good to have it the first few times. But I think that consistent consumption of dairy products leads to problems. I've noticed foods with Vitamin A have diminishing returns the more often you consume them, and eventually negative things did start to happen this week. Some of the symptoms I started getting:

• Redness on the skin by my eyelids and eyebrows.
• Nausea.
• Slight coating on tongue in the morning.
• Mild rashes and itching.
• Pressure and pain on the left side of my face.
• Inflamed skin by my testicles.
• Increased desire to smoke cigarettes, drink coffee and alcohol.

There were some benefits which may have to do with the increased calcium and protein content of the dairy. I did sleep a little better, but I did also have reduced wakefulness.  I had more motivation to complete some creative endeavors that I hadn't before, but at the same time I did feel restlessness with completing chores. Also, the spinal issues that I had before had not returned, thankfully. But, still I don't want to take any chances. I'm gonna take these mild symptoms as "warning signs" to reduce Vitamin A.

 

Quote from somuch4food on January 22, 2019, 7:49 pm

Did you experiment with yogourt?

I am still eating some dairy and have noticed that cheese seems to trigger inflammation in my gut. Eating plain yogourt with a bit of honey does not.

I think it has to do with the proteins being predigested by the bacteria.

Quote from YH on January 22, 2019, 8:24 pm

Quote from somuch4food on January 22, 2019, 7:49 pm

Did you experiment with yogourt?

I am still eating some dairy and have noticed that cheese seems to trigger inflammation in my gut. Eating plain yogourt with a bit of honey does not.

I think it has to do with the proteins being predigested by the bacteria.

I did try yogurt as well, and never noticed any issue with it. A single serving of dairy, whether it's yogurt, cheese, milk, or butter, doesn't really give me immediate symptoms or digestive issues. The symptoms were very gradual, making it difficult to pinpoint what dairy product is actually problematic.

I also just realized I had a few glasses of hibiscus iced tea over the weekend at a friend's place. One glass has 700 iu of Vitamin A! So I could have overdone the beta carotene which made some of the symptoms more apparent.

Quote from Liz on January 22, 2019, 9:53 pm

Quote from YH on January 22, 2019, 4:21 pm

Update: I think I'm gonna end the experiment. I may leave small amounts of butter, but I will probably cut milk and cheese down to a couple times a month. I only seemed to benefit from dairy after I hadn't had it for a while. It felt good to have it the first few times. But I think that consistent consumption of dairy products leads to problems. I've noticed foods with Vitamin A have diminishing returns the more often you consume them, and eventually negative things did start to happen this week. Some of the symptoms I started getting:

• Redness on the skin by my eyelids and eyebrows.
• Nausea.
• Slight coating on tongue in the morning.
• Mild rashes and itching.
• Pressure and pain on the left side of my face.
• Inflamed skin by my testicles.
• Increased desire to smoke cigarettes, drink coffee and alcohol.

There were some benefits which may have to do with the increased calcium and protein content of the dairy. I did sleep a little better, but I did also have reduced wakefulness.  I had more motivation to complete some creative endeavors that I hadn't before, but at the same time I did feel restlessness with completing chores. Also, the spinal issues that I had before had not returned, thankfully. But, still I don't want to take any chances. I'm gonna take these mild symptoms as "warning signs" to reduce Vitamin A.

 

Same-ish things happened to me when I did casein experiment after 4 months 100% milk free. I thought my issues were allergic reactions and since blood work came back negative I thought I'd try.

First thing i had was a small piece of sardinian unpasteurized sheep cheese. Within minutes i got runny nose, thick throat and after 2 hours a small eczema had appeared. I tried it again the day after and then no reaction. For a few weeks I had quark, toasts, butter and such daily and I was in heaven, not really noticing anything bad. After a week or two the eczema started getting bigger, i started to itch all over and after 3 weeks I had horrible mood swings and got extremely sensitive over stress and did not recognize myself at all. That is when i realised it must be the A after all causing all this, and went on a strict A diet, not only 100% milk free. Have not looked back since, but am glancing at butter occationally...

Quote from YH on January 23, 2019, 7:41 pm

Quote from Liz on January 22, 2019, 9:53 pm

Quote from YH on January 22, 2019, 4:21 pm

Update: I think I'm gonna end the experiment. I may leave small amounts of butter, but I will probably cut milk and cheese down to a couple times a month. I only seemed to benefit from dairy after I hadn't had it for a while. It felt good to have it the first few times. But I think that consistent consumption of dairy products leads to problems. I've noticed foods with Vitamin A have diminishing returns the more often you consume them, and eventually negative things did start to happen this week. Some of the symptoms I started getting:

• Redness on the skin by my eyelids and eyebrows.
• Nausea.
• Slight coating on tongue in the morning.
• Mild rashes and itching.
• Pressure and pain on the left side of my face.
• Inflamed skin by my testicles.
• Increased desire to smoke cigarettes, drink coffee and alcohol.

There were some benefits which may have to do with the increased calcium and protein content of the dairy. I did sleep a little better, but I did also have reduced wakefulness.  I had more motivation to complete some creative endeavors that I hadn't before, but at the same time I did feel restlessness with completing chores. Also, the spinal issues that I had before had not returned, thankfully. But, still I don't want to take any chances. I'm gonna take these mild symptoms as "warning signs" to reduce Vitamin A.

 

Same-ish things happened to me when I did casein experiment after 4 months 100% milk free. I thought my issues were allergic reactions and since blood work came back negative I thought I'd try.

First thing i had was a small piece of sardinian unpasteurized sheep cheese. Within minutes i got runny nose, thick throat and after 2 hours a small eczema had appeared. I tried it again the day after and then no reaction. For a few weeks I had quark, toasts, butter and such daily and I was in heaven, not really noticing anything bad. After a week or two the eczema started getting bigger, i started to itch all over and after 3 weeks I had horrible mood swings and got extremely sensitive over stress and did not recognize myself at all. That is when i realised it must be the A after all causing all this, and went on a strict A diet, not only 100% milk free. Have not looked back since, but am glancing at butter occationally...

I also think milk/dairy is sort of immunogenic by nature. It not only provides nutrition, but also exposes the calf(or human in this case) to toxic elements in the environment to build up the immune system. That is why it can sometimes provoke an allergic reaction. All dairy, no matter how "pure" will contain some heavy metals, plastics, and in this case Vitamin A.

I haven't had any dairy at all since Monday and most of my itching had subsided. There could also be an allergic response to dairy, as the vitamin A content is relatively low. I plan on experimenting with some other vitamin A foods in the future, separately from dairy, in order to see how I react.

Quote from Liz on January 23, 2019, 11:20 pm

YH - I think the retinoic acid in milk/casein products is an important factor as well, even though vit a seems relatively low. It was the retinoic acid that killed the animals in the study after all.

Cow's milk is breast milk after all, and just as with humans, toxins show up in the milk. It doesn't mean it should be there or that it fills an intended function. But just as babies react to the milk depending on what the mother eats, same probably goes for us vs the cow's diet. I have noticed before, some brands of milk I tolerate better than others. It could be an A1-A2 thing or the cow's diet 🤔