I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Anyone else craving fatty foods?
You seem to have found a balanced diet that works for you. What health issues made you partake in low VA in the first place? Doesn't sound like you have many now if not feeling like going to work is your major life problem. Personally I never feel like working lol.
I am not pointing out to carnivores as examples of health, far from it. I am saying these people generally have a lot of intolerances and if we go by Grant theory they must have had a lot of VA toxicity. Most of them stick to steaks and do well enough which is why they stick to it so religiously. To you it might sound like a psychological issue but I think it's a VA issue. It is inadvertently a much lower VA diet even if you throw in some eggs. Diets like keto and paleo and wapf in comparison have plenty and I mean plenty of VA sources.
Grant theory seems to be dismissed by most people. It's sort of a taboo. This is the only community that's doing a n=many expirement. It still feels very tentative and I understand why people have second thoughts. I am seeing improvements I think I will stick for long haul as I only think it's fair.I
am using grapeseed oil by the way. No issues whatsoever.
I don't know what you mean by health is a moving target. For me, either Grant theory is right or it is wrong. Either VA is a poison at any dose or it useful in moderation. We can't have it both ways.
Even Grant mentions in his book that retinoic acid is used by the body to battle infections in his chapter on the hygiene theory. The body is equipped to rid itself of waste products. Retinoic acid is far from the only substance that can wreck havoc our bodies.
The major problem is that the substance was mislabelled as a vitamin and its intake got inflated by marketing/propaganda of vitamins.
And health is a moving target because the body is constantly changing and so are its nutrient requirements. There's no black and white in health it's all nuances of grey.
I disagree with that notion. The healthiest people I know ate the same thing their entire lives. Nutrition shouldn't be that complicated.
Grant makes a clear case that its a poison. If that's not the thesis of his work then he should have said: VA is good in small amounts within the RDA requirements. Don't go over that. Somehow I don't think he would have been groundbreaking to merit writing 3 books about...
They have figured out what their body needs for their lifestyle, or they have the psychological tools that help them withstand more digestive stress. And you said it well they ate the same thing their entire life.
We are in a world of abundance with incredible variety and might benefit from simplifying our diets, but that can remove the enjoyment of eating, especially in social settings.
I'm not saying it's needed, nor denying it's a poison. I am just saying that the body is able to deal with some amount of it and can even use the poison to its advantage in certain conditions. BTW, Grant's diet has some of it. Beef fat contains lutein, a carotenoid and I'm pretty sure the beans he eats are not zero carotenoids either.
I am well aware that no diet will be completely devoid of it. I understand your reasonable approach. However, that's not Grant's premise otherwise he would not have gone through all the trouble of eating the same food for years. Point is either its a poison or its okay in small amounts. You can't have your cake and eat it. I know the body can handle mild poisoning for a long time for example mercury. Nobody says yes mercury is a poison but in small amounts the body will dispose of it so its okay to indulge.
We are at a stage where we don't really know for sure. If everybody was to stop the diet halfway and go back to RDA recommendations in 6 months then I really feel the point was missed. This could be a major shift in nutrition say 50 years from now or it could be an inconclusive expirement.
Quote from Guest on January 16, 2019, 5:53 pmYou seem to have found a balanced diet that works for you. What health issues made you partake in low VA in the first place? Doesn't sound like you have many now if not feeling like going to work is your major life problem. Personally I never feel like working lol.
I am not pointing out to carnivores as examples of health, far from it. I am saying these people generally have a lot of intolerances and if we go by Grant theory they must have had a lot of VA toxicity. Most of them stick to steaks and do well enough which is why they stick to it so religiously. To you it might sound like a psychological issue but I think it's a VA issue. It is inadvertently a much lower VA diet even if you throw in some eggs. Diets like keto and paleo and wapf in comparison have plenty and I mean plenty of VA sources.
Grant theory seems to be dismissed by most people. It's sort of a taboo. This is the only community that's doing a n=many expirement. It still feels very tentative and I understand why people have second thoughts. I am seeing improvements I think I will stick for long haul as I only think it's fair.I
am using grapeseed oil by the way. No issues whatsoever.
My diet is still pretty low VA, coming in at less than 1000 iu a day vs the RDA for 3000 iu. I'm also hardly consuming any beta carotene, which I think was my main issue. When I added in some butter and heavy cream, the orange color on my calluses went away. That is why I continued consuming small amounts of butter. I'm definitely wary of side effects. I think skin problems usually come later. The first noticeable symptoms for me are usually headaches and ocular pain. If that happens, I'll be sure to reduce vitamin A further.
About the carnivores, I was just saying that some vegetable oil shouldn't cause the symptoms they were experiencing. Also, I'd be wary of any immunosuppressive effects of a diet that low carbs, fiber, and plant foods in general. Most mammals do not eat like that.
Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 7:46 pmEven Grant mentions in his book that retinoic acid is used by the body to battle infections in his chapter on the hygiene theory. The body is equipped to rid itself of waste products. Retinoic acid is far from the only substance that can wreck havoc our bodies.
The major problem is that the substance was mislabelled as a vitamin and its intake got inflated by marketing/propaganda of vitamins.
And health is a moving target because the body is constantly changing and so are its nutrient requirements. There's no black and white in health it's all nuances of grey.
Couldn't have said it better.
Quote from Guest on January 16, 2019, 8:39 pmI am well aware that no diet will be completely devoid of it. I understand your reasonable approach. However, that's not Grant's premise otherwise he would not have gone through all the trouble of eating the same food for years. Point is either its a poison or its okay in small amounts. You can't have your cake and eat it. I know the body can handle mild poisoning for a long time for example mercury. Nobody says yes mercury is a poison but in small amounts the body will dispose of it so its okay to indulge.
We are at a stage where we don't really know for sure. If everybody was to stop the diet halfway and go back to RDA recommendations in 6 months then I really feel the point was missed. This could be a major shift in nutrition say 50 years from now or it could be an inconclusive expirement.
Most of the benefits from certain foods come from hormesis. This is true for foods and substances like blueberries, wine, coffee, and many chemicals in plants. Just like exercise, these substances benefit your body by forcing it to react to these chemicals. Many of these chemicals can be toxic at a high dose, but are beneficial at low doses. This is not an unusual idea. Vitamin A is unique in that it has such a long half life. With excessive consumption, your body has problems excreting enough in order to absorb the fresh supply. Factor in a high fat, high protein diet, and the body will absorb even more Vitamin A from food. That is the trap door.
Also, as mentioned above, I'm hardly eating the RDA. I'm avoiding beta carotene, and consuming a little preformed Vitamin A if I feel like it.
Further update. Reducing added dairy fats to minimal. No more than a pat of butter a day. I feel like butter might be problematic because it has no nutrition or protein to balance out the Vitamin A. Additionally, I think some calcium helps lower PTH, which may be high from a high grain and meat diet. Adding some cheese instead. Cheese is an excellent source of zinc, which may help deal with some of the Vitamin A. Generally, I only feel well with cheese if it is combined with other foods like wheat, nuts, seeds, and some meat. Also been using imported cheese as opposed to domestic, and favoring sheep dairy. Some of the benefits I've felt since introducing some dairy is my pants no longer feel as tight. Three months on low Vitamin A with zero dairy actually made me go up one pant size. Some dairy helped shrink my waist a bit.
Were you eating more calories before introducing the cheese?
Generally people lose weight when they drop the dairy.
Butter does have some nutrient like K2 and from what I understand it's not about balancing VA its about emulsifying it to protect from damage.
This seems overly complicated and a little far fetched. So you telling me you need some sheep cheese from the Alpes to balance our your diet. Also, that's some rather unusual ways of combining cheese with other foods.
This reminds me of the ray peat forum where everyone is a biochemist. It really should not be that complicated.
What I am saying is that since reducing most vegetable oils, replacing fats with good quality dairy products, and getting adequate amounts of calcium, it seems like my body isn't swelling up anymore. I am relatively lean to begin with, so it became very noticeable when my waist started to increase in size, and pants started getting tight. Who knows, maybe I need to gain weight?!
Combining cheese with dried fruits and nuts seems to be pretty normal, at least with my family. The dried fruits provide Vitamin K and the nuts provide Vitamin E. Additionally, there is some evidence that saturated fats from dairy are not fully absorbed.
My main issues seem to be with Beta Carotene. The effects are almost immediate, and the disruption in my mood lasts a few days.
If I do start to get issues with dairy, whether skin issues or not, I will update this log. I am also still making sure to not go more than 800-1000 iu of Vitamin A a day. Different people will have different ceilings for Vitamin A. Additionally, different forms of Vitamin A might have positive or negative effects.
Also, issues with Vitamin A are far more complex than simply ingesting it. Vitamin A is strictly regulated and recycled by the body. Higher levels in the serum can be a symptom of some other inflammatory issues as well. I wish things were simple with health, but they are not, and you need to see things with nuance.