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DiscussionLet's talk about it: Progress ReportsAnyone else craving fatty foods?

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Anyone else craving fatty foods?

#21 · January 3, 2019, 6:02 pm

Quote from Trista on January 3, 2019, 6:02 pm
My daughter and I have been and continue to react very poorly to fats during our low A journey. My daughter is far more sensitive due to her smaller liver (I believe), and her eczema reacts severely to even small amounts of fat.

Research about liver storage and fats let me to reading up on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease which we know is entirely due to vit A toxicity from Grant's work and how the liver functions to remove toxins.

The liver stores vit A as fats within the liver which causes it to become enlarged. When the liver is already full of fats, it can not store any more A or break down fats so the under-produced bile salts are essentially ineffective. The intestines, recognizing that the foods are not properly broken down to a form that isn't harmful, will recirculate everything through your blood until the liver has the material (or reduced toxic load) it needs to handle them. Which is why I believe the A is in our serum in the first place. On the other hand, if toxins are broken down quickly, and the liver can't keep up with the process of "packaging" material into a less harmful form, the partially-processed toxins build up in many areas body not just serum.

With all of this in mind I think it starts to make clear the answers to some of the questions asked here.

"...why does the body not flush the Vitamin A out using Bile salts."

"Why does the liver instead release Vitamin A into the serum?"

"Why is Vitamin A present in the serum at a consistent level up until the liver starts to get low on reserves?"

All of that being said and knowing my daughter and I both have an excess of fat stored in the liver as is the way of vit A toxicity, I believe we will not intake any additional fats until some of what it stored has depleted. The additional fats are causing too much strain on the liver and its ability to detox our bodies. I believe 100% in following your body's cues.

I do think fats are necessary for continued detox after the fats stored in the liver are depleted. That may be why the periodic craving for fats occurs.

Side note: breast milk is not waste. The toxic or overly acidic nature of the milk produced is entirely dependent on the blood in our bodies. Which also explains why so much A is in breastmilk when we are at levels toxic enough to recirculate it into the bloodstream.

My daughter and I have been and continue to react very poorly to fats during our low A journey. My daughter is far more sensitive due to her smaller liver (I believe), and her eczema reacts severely to even small amounts of fat.

Research about liver storage and fats let me to reading up on non-alcoholic fatty liver disease which we know is entirely due to vit A toxicity from Grant's work and how the liver functions to remove toxins.

The liver stores vit A as fats within the liver which causes it to become enlarged. When the liver is already full of fats, it can not store any more A or break down fats so the under-produced bile salts are essentially ineffective. The intestines, recognizing that the foods are not properly broken down to a form that isn't harmful, will recirculate everything through your blood until the liver has the material (or reduced toxic load) it needs to handle them. Which is why I believe the A is in our serum in the first place. On the other hand, if toxins are broken down quickly, and the liver can't keep up with the process of "packaging" material into a less harmful form, the partially-processed toxins build up in many areas body not just serum.

With all of this in mind I think it starts to make clear the answers to some of the questions asked here.

"...why does the body not flush the Vitamin A out using Bile salts."

"Why does the liver instead release Vitamin A into the serum?"

"Why is Vitamin A present in the serum at a consistent level up until the liver starts to get low on reserves?"

All of that being said and knowing my daughter and I both have an excess of fat stored in the liver as is the way of vit A toxicity, I believe we will not intake any additional fats until some of what it stored has depleted. The additional fats are causing too much strain on the liver and its ability to detox our bodies. I believe 100% in following your body's cues.

I do think fats are necessary for continued detox after the fats stored in the liver are depleted. That may be why the periodic craving for fats occurs.

Side note: breast milk is not waste. The toxic or overly acidic nature of the milk produced is entirely dependent on the blood in our bodies. Which also explains why so much A is in breastmilk when we are at levels toxic enough to recirculate it into the bloodstream.

#22 · January 3, 2019, 10:30 pm

Quote from YH on January 3, 2019, 10:30 pm
I just want to add that I've continued to include dairy fats in my diet for the last two weeks. This is after being close to zero vitamin A for nearly two months, and Low Vitamin A since the summer. Some negatives I felt at first were minor brain fog, but I think it might be related to a mild allergic reaction after reintroducing dairy products. Additionally, I do have some occasional redness in my eyes.

For the last two weeks, I have been including italian and french butter, along with a 1/2 a cup to a cup of heavy cream a day. This is in addition to a diet that is already pretty low in vegetables and high in grains and legumes. I have been consuming up to about 2000 iu of Vitamin A between the butter and cream. The heavy cream I have been using is raw and from Jersey cows. I believe if I am going to consume anything with Vitamin A in it, it has to be unadulterated.

The reason I am continuing to consume dairy fats is because I feel it is having positive impact. My hair texture is continuing to improve. Additionally, orange calluses on my feet and hands(from lifting weights) are losing their color and actually healing. The interesting thing is that the calluses are not peeling, but rather changing back into healthy skin with a healthy color.

(Since I can't process beta carotene well, I am wondering if the retinol is replacing the carotene that is sitting in my body. It sure looks like it)

From what I read, long chain fatty acids are extremely important for myelination. I definitely feel like it's been helping. Sometimes I feel the mental effects almost immediately. I used to occasionally wake up with numb fingers, but that hasn't been happening these passed two weeks. Digestion has also been great with dairy fats. I did experiment with various vegetable fats and even beef fat, but dairy fat has overall been positive in comparison. Cheese, milk, yogurt do not have the same effect. I don't know if it is due to the casein or calcium, but I don't feel like they are helpful. Either way, I'm going to trust my intuition, and continue to add fats to craving.

I just want to add that I've continued to include dairy fats in my diet for the last two weeks. This is after being close to zero vitamin A for nearly two months, and Low Vitamin A since the summer. Some negatives I felt at first were minor brain fog, but I think it might be related to a mild allergic reaction after reintroducing dairy products. Additionally, I do have some occasional redness in my eyes.

For the last two weeks, I have been including italian and french butter, along with a 1/2 a cup to a cup of heavy cream a day. This is in addition to a diet that is already pretty low in vegetables and high in grains and legumes. I have been consuming up to about 2000 iu of Vitamin A between the butter and cream. The heavy cream I have been using is raw and from Jersey cows. I believe if I am going to consume anything with Vitamin A in it, it has to be unadulterated.

The reason I am continuing to consume dairy fats is because I feel it is having positive impact. My hair texture is continuing to improve. Additionally, orange calluses on my feet and hands(from lifting weights) are losing their color and actually healing. The interesting thing is that the calluses are not peeling, but rather changing back into healthy skin with a healthy color.

(Since I can't process beta carotene well, I am wondering if the retinol is replacing the carotene that is sitting in my body. It sure looks like it)

From what I read, long chain fatty acids are extremely important for myelination. I definitely feel like it's been helping. Sometimes I feel the mental effects almost immediately. I used to occasionally wake up with numb fingers, but that hasn't been happening these passed two weeks. Digestion has also been great with dairy fats. I did experiment with various vegetable fats and even beef fat, but dairy fat has overall been positive in comparison. Cheese, milk, yogurt do not have the same effect. I don't know if it is due to the casein or calcium, but I don't feel like they are helpful. Either way, I'm going to trust my intuition, and continue to add fats to craving.

#23 · January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm
Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

puddleduck has reacted to this post.

#24 · January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

#25 · January 16, 2019, 4:24 am

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 4:24 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I don't think science can ever fully figure it out, especially since the exact gut composition is always changing. That's where intuition comes in. You have to learn to deal with your body and treat it like it needs to be for its current condition. Not that it's easy, but at least you're now responsible for your health.

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I don't think science can ever fully figure it out, especially since the exact gut composition is always changing. That's where intuition comes in. You have to learn to deal with your body and treat it like it needs to be for its current condition. Not that it's easy, but at least you're now responsible for your health.

Ian McCoondog has reacted to this post.

#26 · January 16, 2019, 4:52 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 4:52 am

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 4:24 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I don't think science can ever fully figure it out, especially since the exact gut composition is always changing. That's where intuition comes in. You have to learn to deal with your body and treat it like it needs to be for its current condition. Not that it's easy, but at least you're now responsible for your health.

Yeah. Spontaneous eating means trusting your senses but to trust our senses in the first place it requires throwing away all the trash created by all kinds of religious dieting rules.

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 4:24 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I don't think science can ever fully figure it out, especially since the exact gut composition is always changing. That's where intuition comes in. You have to learn to deal with your body and treat it like it needs to be for its current condition. Not that it's easy, but at least you're now responsible for your health.

Yeah. Spontaneous eating means trusting your senses but to trust our senses in the first place it requires throwing away all the trash created by all kinds of religious dieting rules.

puddleduck has reacted to this post.

#27 · January 16, 2019, 6:38 am

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 6:38 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 4:52 am

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 4:24 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I don't think science can ever fully figure it out, especially since the exact gut composition is always changing. That's where intuition comes in. You have to learn to deal with your body and treat it like it needs to be for its current condition. Not that it's easy, but at least you're now responsible for your health.

Yeah. Spontaneous eating means trusting your senses but to trust our senses in the first place it requires throwing away all the trash created by all kinds of religious dieting rules.

Throwing it all away was pretty easy once I realized that the more I applied those rules the less awesome I felt. Healthy is not a word I'm willing to even use anymore :(. It is tainted with all the advice you find in media.

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 4:52 am

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 4:24 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I don't think science can ever fully figure it out, especially since the exact gut composition is always changing. That's where intuition comes in. You have to learn to deal with your body and treat it like it needs to be for its current condition. Not that it's easy, but at least you're now responsible for your health.

Yeah. Spontaneous eating means trusting your senses but to trust our senses in the first place it requires throwing away all the trash created by all kinds of religious dieting rules.

Throwing it all away was pretty easy once I realized that the more I applied those rules the less awesome I felt. Healthy is not a word I'm willing to even use anymore :(. It is tainted with all the advice you find in media.

puddleduck has reacted to this post.

#28 · January 16, 2019, 7:54 am

Quote from Guest on January 16, 2019, 7:54 am
YH,

Could you clarify what you mean by stress tolerance? Sounds like a very broad and highly subjective/variable measuring stick. Not sure how dependent it is on diet vs external factors. I am only a bit over a month into the diet so I don't have your experience.

I also have trouble buying into the whole craving liver thing. It has to be one of the most repulsive cuts of meat so much so that some carnivores dieters drip it with honey to make it palatable. Usually it's served sliced with onions and spices to make it somehow tolerable. I only ate it because I wanted to be superman with all the nutrients

Your current diet sounds a lot like what I had been doing for most of last year except I was more extreme. Going for nutrient density, eating liver 2x a week, raw dairy from A2 cows, dozen egg yolks and plenty of oysters and fish. Like you I had no immediate reaction and might have even notice some positives.

Within 2-3 months on that eating style I had developed alopecia on beard, itchy scalp, rib cage pains, night sweats and genital pimples. All very real symptoms. Fast forward 6-12 months and now I have a torn rotator cuff and a skin condition (sebhorric derm).

I don't really care about subjective feelings and don't usually attribute those to diet much but when its physical symptoms that I never had before that happened to occur with diet change then I am forced to reevaluate.

If I hadn't gone this route I would never even considered Grants theory. I almost get a trigger now when someone mentions organ meats and raw dairy or any western a price/ keto influenced diets. I read a lot of carnivore diet logs and a lot of them decide to exclude dairy and organ meats. Simply sticking to the fat from the steak and not even a grass fed one at that and seeing improvements. Notable examples: Shawn baker, Jordan peterson and his daughter. Obviously carni diet is very lacking and I find grant low VA much more balanced.

As far as vegetable oils I think the negatives are highly exaggerated. Man, I didn't get close to even a drop of them last year. Only used duck fat, raw butter and coconut oil. Guess what? Didn't make any difference. The better my supposed omega3/ 6 ratios and more dha I got the worse everything was.

Ron

YH,

Could you clarify what you mean by stress tolerance? Sounds like a very broad and highly subjective/variable measuring stick. Not sure how dependent it is on diet vs external factors. I am only a bit over a month into the diet so I don't have your experience.

I also have trouble buying into the whole craving liver thing. It has to be one of the most repulsive cuts of meat so much so that some carnivores dieters drip it with honey to make it palatable. Usually it's served sliced with onions and spices to make it somehow tolerable. I only ate it because I wanted to be superman with all the nutrients

Your current diet sounds a lot like what I had been doing for most of last year except I was more extreme. Going for nutrient density, eating liver 2x a week, raw dairy from A2 cows, dozen egg yolks and plenty of oysters and fish. Like you I had no immediate reaction and might have even notice some positives.

Within 2-3 months on that eating style I had developed alopecia on beard, itchy scalp, rib cage pains, night sweats and genital pimples. All very real symptoms. Fast forward 6-12 months and now I have a torn rotator cuff and a skin condition (sebhorric derm).

I don't really care about subjective feelings and don't usually attribute those to diet much but when its physical symptoms that I never had before that happened to occur with diet change then I am forced to reevaluate.

If I hadn't gone this route I would never even considered Grants theory. I almost get a trigger now when someone mentions organ meats and raw dairy or any western a price/ keto influenced diets. I read a lot of carnivore diet logs and a lot of them decide to exclude dairy and organ meats. Simply sticking to the fat from the steak and not even a grass fed one at that and seeing improvements. Notable examples: Shawn baker, Jordan peterson and his daughter. Obviously carni diet is very lacking and I find grant low VA much more balanced.

As far as vegetable oils I think the negatives are highly exaggerated. Man, I didn't get close to even a drop of them last year. Only used duck fat, raw butter and coconut oil. Guess what? Didn't make any difference. The better my supposed omega3/ 6 ratios and more dha I got the worse everything was.

Ron

puddleduck has reacted to this post.

#29 · January 16, 2019, 1:29 pm

After reading books I thought that's the main point: it's "good" for you short term but bad long term.

#30 · January 16, 2019, 4:04 pm

Quote from YH on January 16, 2019, 4:04 pm

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I think our cravings are very complex and most remarkably inconsistent. Many foods, even dairy products cause very acute cravings and aversions. Eating dairy foods or any food beyond a certain threshold causes aversions, which is only natural. Even foods like beef and beans can become disgusting after frequent consumption. Plain starches and bread are honestly the only foods that are pretty consistently appealing.

Quote from Guest on January 16, 2019, 7:54 am

YH,

Could you clarify what you mean by stress tolerance? Sounds like a very broad and highly subjective/variable measuring stick. Not sure how dependent it is on diet vs external factors. I am only a bit over a month into the diet so I don't have your experience.

I also have trouble buying into the whole craving liver thing. It has to be one of the most repulsive cuts of meat so much so that some carnivores dieters drip it with honey to make it palatable. Usually it's served sliced with onions and spices to make it somehow tolerable. I only ate it because I wanted to be superman with all the nutrients

Your current diet sounds a lot like what I had been doing for most of last year except I was more extreme. Going for nutrient density, eating liver 2x a week, raw dairy from A2 cows, dozen egg yolks and plenty of oysters and fish. Like you I had no immediate reaction and might have even notice some positives.

Within 2-3 months on that eating style I had developed alopecia on beard, itchy scalp, rib cage pains, night sweats and genital pimples. All very real symptoms. Fast forward 6-12 months and now I have a torn rotator cuff and a skin condition (sebhorric derm).

I don't really care about subjective feelings and don't usually attribute those to diet much but when its physical symptoms that I never had before that happened to occur with diet change then I am forced to reevaluate.

If I hadn't gone this route I would never even considered Grants theory. I almost get a trigger now when someone mentions organ meats and raw dairy or any western a price/ keto influenced diets. I read a lot of carnivore diet logs and a lot of them decide to exclude dairy and organ meats. Simply sticking to the fat from the steak and not even a grass fed one at that and seeing improvements. Notable examples: Shawn baker, Jordan peterson and his daughter. Obviously carni diet is very lacking and I find grant low VA much more balanced.

As far as vegetable oils I think the negatives are highly exaggerated. Man, I didn't get close to even a drop of them last year. Only used duck fat, raw butter and coconut oil. Guess what? Didn't make any difference. The better my supposed omega3/ 6 ratios and more dha I got the worse everything was.

Ron

By stress tolerance, I mean the ability to handle stressful, but normal situations. For example, at work I was noticing that I was becoming more impatient in response to increased workload. I am typically able to cope with it. Additionally, I had one day were I woke up in the morning and called in sick, because the very idea of work seemed stressful. It could be that there are other factors involved, but adding some preformed Vitamin A helped.

I am also being very wary of quantity. The liver I did eat was in the form of Pate, which is half butter, and is essentially a spread. I probably had 4 oz of Pate in the sandwich. It tastes very good, and definitely much different than chopped liver. It was also made with chicken liver, which is far lower in Vitamin A than beef liver.

Also, the addition of small amounts of dairy is hardly Keto. I was never able to do the Keto diet because it caused severe nausea almost immediately. I was also never able to eat the amount of meat, eggs, and butter so many Keto dieters prescribed.

Most of my meals are very rich in carbs, primarily refined starch. I limit myself to one portion of Vitamin A rich foods-A pat of butter, OR, 4-6 of milk, OR some yogurt. Never all at once. Sometimes I'll top a meal off with one egg. But I don't think I'd eat more than a couple of eggs a week. I'd say at least 50% of my calories come from grains(bulgur, faro, oats, rice, and bread). I try to general keep Vitamin A at 800-1000 iu a day. No more, as Vitamin A has a long half life, and our bodies are very good at recycling it. Additionally, keeping fat and protein relatively low will further decrease the absorption of Vitamin A.

I also don't think the carnivores are very healthy. I think they are suppressing their immune systems by avoiding carbs. Shawn Baker also eats eggs, so I don't know if he is really low Vitamin A. Glucose metabolism is one of the ways in which we deplete Vitamin A. When eating a low carb/no carb diet, our body hold off on using Vitamin A to target infections. That is why they continue to feel worse as time goes on if they eat other foods. Carbs and other foods will become more allergenic. Any trace amounts of anything but beef will cause an immune response to them. The Petersons recently said they felt bad after eating a steak at a restaurant, that may have been soaked in vegetable oil. I think that is mental. Our bodies are meant to handle a wide variety of foods. Additionally, our exposure to the environment is what helps regulate the immune system. Even "true" carnivores eat grass and wild plants, so I don't buy their argument at all. At best it is avoiding the problem.

I also don't believe vegetable oils are that great. I get an inflammatory response from sunflower oil .The skin on my hands turn red and my circulation becomes poor. Butter, ghee, and olive oil don't affect me in the same way.

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 6:38 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 4:52 am

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 4:24 am

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I don't think science can ever fully figure it out, especially since the exact gut composition is always changing. That's where intuition comes in. You have to learn to deal with your body and treat it like it needs to be for its current condition. Not that it's easy, but at least you're now responsible for your health.

Yeah. Spontaneous eating means trusting your senses but to trust our senses in the first place it requires throwing away all the trash created by all kinds of religious dieting rules.

Throwing it all away was pretty easy once I realized that the more I applied those rules the less awesome I felt. Healthy is not a word I'm willing to even use anymore :(. It is tainted with all the advice you find in media.

The problem is health is a moving target. What is good for you now might not be good for you later, even tomorrow. Listening too cravings and being adaptable is probably a better solution.

Quote from DareToBeNaive on January 16, 2019, 3:20 am

Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I think our cravings are very complex and most remarkably inconsistent. Many foods, even dairy products cause very acute cravings and aversions. Eating dairy foods or any food beyond a certain threshold causes aversions, which is only natural. Even foods like beef and beans can become disgusting after frequent consumption. Plain starches and bread are honestly the only foods that are pretty consistently appealing.

Quote from Guest on January 16, 2019, 7:54 am

YH,

Could you clarify what you mean by stress tolerance? Sounds like a very broad and highly subjective/variable measuring stick. Not sure how dependent it is on diet vs external factors. I am only a bit over a month into the diet so I don't have your experience.

I also have trouble buying into the whole craving liver thing. It has to be one of the most repulsive cuts of meat so much so that some carnivores dieters drip it with honey to make it palatable. Usually it's served sliced with onions and spices to make it somehow tolerable. I only ate it because I wanted to be superman with all the nutrients

Your current diet sounds a lot like what I had been doing for most of last year except I was more extreme. Going for nutrient density, eating liver 2x a week, raw dairy from A2 cows, dozen egg yolks and plenty of oysters and fish. Like you I had no immediate reaction and might have even notice some positives.

Within 2-3 months on that eating style I had developed alopecia on beard, itchy scalp, rib cage pains, night sweats and genital pimples. All very real symptoms. Fast forward 6-12 months and now I have a torn rotator cuff and a skin condition (sebhorric derm).

I don't really care about subjective feelings and don't usually attribute those to diet much but when its physical symptoms that I never had before that happened to occur with diet change then I am forced to reevaluate.

If I hadn't gone this route I would never even considered Grants theory. I almost get a trigger now when someone mentions organ meats and raw dairy or any western a price/ keto influenced diets. I read a lot of carnivore diet logs and a lot of them decide to exclude dairy and organ meats. Simply sticking to the fat from the steak and not even a grass fed one at that and seeing improvements. Notable examples: Shawn baker, Jordan peterson and his daughter. Obviously carni diet is very lacking and I find grant low VA much more balanced.

As far as vegetable oils I think the negatives are highly exaggerated. Man, I didn't get close to even a drop of them last year. Only used duck fat, raw butter and coconut oil. Guess what? Didn't make any difference. The better my supposed omega3/ 6 ratios and more dha I got the worse everything was.

Ron

By stress tolerance, I mean the ability to handle stressful, but normal situations. For example, at work I was noticing that I was becoming more impatient in response to increased workload. I am typically able to cope with it. Additionally, I had one day were I woke up in the morning and called in sick, because the very idea of work seemed stressful. It could be that there are other factors involved, but adding some preformed Vitamin A helped.

I am also being very wary of quantity. The liver I did eat was in the form of Pate, which is half butter, and is essentially a spread. I probably had 4 oz of Pate in the sandwich. It tastes very good, and definitely much different than chopped liver. It was also made with chicken liver, which is far lower in Vitamin A than beef liver.

Also, the addition of small amounts of dairy is hardly Keto. I was never able to do the Keto diet because it caused severe nausea almost immediately. I was also never able to eat the amount of meat, eggs, and butter so many Keto dieters prescribed.

Most of my meals are very rich in carbs, primarily refined starch. I limit myself to one portion of Vitamin A rich foods-A pat of butter, OR, 4-6 of milk, OR some yogurt. Never all at once. Sometimes I'll top a meal off with one egg. But I don't think I'd eat more than a couple of eggs a week. I'd say at least 50% of my calories come from grains(bulgur, faro, oats, rice, and bread). I try to general keep Vitamin A at 800-1000 iu a day. No more, as Vitamin A has a long half life, and our bodies are very good at recycling it. Additionally, keeping fat and protein relatively low will further decrease the absorption of Vitamin A.

I also don't think the carnivores are very healthy. I think they are suppressing their immune systems by avoiding carbs. Shawn Baker also eats eggs, so I don't know if he is really low Vitamin A. Glucose metabolism is one of the ways in which we deplete Vitamin A. When eating a low carb/no carb diet, our body hold off on using Vitamin A to target infections. That is why they continue to feel worse as time goes on if they eat other foods. Carbs and other foods will become more allergenic. Any trace amounts of anything but beef will cause an immune response to them. The Petersons recently said they felt bad after eating a steak at a restaurant, that may have been soaked in vegetable oil. I think that is mental. Our bodies are meant to handle a wide variety of foods. Additionally, our exposure to the environment is what helps regulate the immune system. Even "true" carnivores eat grass and wild plants, so I don't buy their argument at all. At best it is avoiding the problem.

I also don't believe vegetable oils are that great. I get an inflammatory response from sunflower oil .The skin on my hands turn red and my circulation becomes poor. Butter, ghee, and olive oil don't affect me in the same way.

Quote from somuch4food on January 16, 2019, 6:38 am

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Quote from YH on January 15, 2019, 9:55 pm

Further addition and probably a final note.

During the last month I have experimented with chicken liver pate twice. The place I go to for lunch has this on the menu. I got this instead of my typical corned beef sandwich. It is made with butter, cream, red wine and a few spices. Additionally, my added fats have lowered(mainly from Indian ghee, Italian butter, and some heavy cream). I have also added moderate amounts of milk and yogurt, and occasionally cheese as part of a dish. Fat intake is still typically no more than 30% of diet which I think is very important, as higher fat intake causes many problems with the regulation of Vitamin A.

I noticed no ill effects from the liver pate. I made sure to consume it with a source of Vitamin C, Vitamin E and Vitamin K. Additionally, the dairy has been helpful. I have been consuming almonds, hazelnuts, raisins, and dates with the milk and yogurt.

I added Vitamin A because I started noticing a progressively lower tolerance to stress. Additionally, I was craving liver which is very unusual for me. Adding in the dairy increased my stress tolerance, and eating liver made me feel calm almost immediately. Also, my skin is not breaking out, nor am I suffering from any itching. I don't plan on eating liver more than once a week, but I'm definitely not avoiding it anymore.

In addition to this, I have limited beef consumption to 1-2 times a week. Beef started tasting really unpleasant, even in small amounts. I've been eating chicken, mackerel (which is relatively low Vitamin A), branzino, Tilapia, scollops, and some oysters. I think the seafood has been very helpful because it is very high in Taurine. I also think the DHA content might also be helpful.

I also stopped consuming all vegetable oils and refined oils. I don't think they are very healthy and they almost always lead to an inflammatory response.

Disclaimer: This is obviously not a low Vitamin A diet anymore. Please don't mimic what I'm doing, unless you have come to the decision yourself. I have been experimenting with food for a long time, and I always eat based on craving and personal symptoms. Additionally, my history might be different than yours. I have never taken Accutane, so I might not have acute toxicity like some people on here. I never ate organ meats growing up, and my dairy consumption has always been moderate, even as a child. Most importantly, I have a genetic mutation which doesn't allow me to store Iron well in addition to a reduced conversion of beta carotene to Vitamin A. So it could be that I have poor absorption of Vitamin A, and I might need some preformed Vitamin A.

Interesting. I was eating around 70-80 grams of butter a day for the last 7 days and interestingly haven't noticed any skin issues. I really like the taste of the butter more that vegetable shortening so I hope it will continue like this. For the liver I am not sure what to think but will certainly try it in the future.

I am starting to think and feel that gut bacteria and microbiome composition is maybe solely responsible for tolerance and regulation of all foods and nutrients including retinol and carotenoids too but they are also responsible for our cravings so it's very complex and complicated and I dont think that we will ever figure out that part.

I don't think science can ever fully figure it out, especially since the exact gut composition is always changing. That's where intuition comes in. You have to learn to deal with your body and treat it like it needs to be for its current condition. Not that it's easy, but at least you're now responsible for your health.

Yeah. Spontaneous eating means trusting your senses but to trust our senses in the first place it requires throwing away all the trash created by all kinds of religious dieting rules.

Throwing it all away was pretty easy once I realized that the more I applied those rules the less awesome I felt. Healthy is not a word I'm willing to even use anymore :(. It is tainted with all the advice you find in media.

The problem is health is a moving target. What is good for you now might not be good for you later, even tomorrow. Listening too cravings and being adaptable is probably a better solution.

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Anyone else craving fatty foods?

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