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Anyone else craving fatty foods?
I don't think vitamin A is essential, but I do think the body is able to use it to its own benefit. The body also has mechanisms to get rid of it like any other toxin as long as it has the opportunity to do so. I don't think zero A is the real solution.
Sure, it works, but it removes a whole lot of enjoyment from life. I am still not desperate enough to go down that path. I have lowered A and probably rarely go over RDI which is progress from before when I would easily double or triple RDI in a single day.
My approach might fail in the end, we'll see.
I personally do not believe in detox and think I should gradually make changes toward better health.
Quote from Guest on December 28, 2018, 9:46 amThis assumes “vitamin”-A is actually useful. Although it is an n=1 experiment, Grant’s depletion experiment suggests it isn’t, and may always be harmful, even if the body tries to use it when it is present. He has depleted his body’s stores as much as possible, but doesn’t seem to have any issues with insufficient immunity to infection/viruses. Perhaps he can speak to the state of his immune system.
If you have evidence that A is needed in some contexts, I’m open minded, but I think most people on this forum are of the opinion that it is never beneficial, and that full elimination is the goal (or as close as reasonably possible).
I do have some skepticism about vitamin A being a poison, at least when it's consumed in an unadulterated form in moderate amounts. If someone has hypervitaminosis A, the only solution is a depletion diet. After depletion, a person should probably add some Vitamin A foods(depending on context and tolerance.)
Also, if it's a poison, why is it found in large amounts in breast milk, much higher than typical cow's milk. Additionally, why is there a toxin in milk at all? Last time I checked, heavy metals weren't really high in milk.
In cows, I thought that maybe vitamin A content was variable, depending on which country the cows were milked. I though maybe some countries that fortified cow feed with Vitamin A or beta carotene would result in milk that is higher in the vitamin. But this is not the case. Vitamin A quantity in milk is remarkably consistent in cows across the entire world(I can dig up the studies again later, if you're interested). During spring time, Vitamin A content would increase, and during winter time, the Vitamin A would decrease, but would always stay within 20 percent of the median. At the same time, I have never seen any evidence where Vitamin A content in milk is 0.
This tells me that Vitamin A is obviously something highly regulated and serves a very specific purpose.
Additionally, why is Vitamin A hoarded in such important organs, like the liver, testicles, and the kidneys? It baffles me to think that evolutionary designs would put something in your testicles that will burn them up. This is not to say that excess Vitamin A is harmless. It is just that body has very specific regulation of Vitamin A, that is different from other Vitamins. What causes Vitamin A to be unregulated? What causes the body to misuse it? What other factors are in play? These are all questions I'm continuing to think about as I'm reading about this.
Quote from YH on December 28, 2018, 12:33 pmQuote from Guest on December 28, 2018, 9:46 amThis assumes “vitamin”-A is actually useful. Although it is an n=1 experiment, Grant’s depletion experiment suggests it isn’t, and may always be harmful, even if the body tries to use it when it is present. He has depleted his body’s stores as much as possible, but doesn’t seem to have any issues with insufficient immunity to infection/viruses. Perhaps he can speak to the state of his immune system.
If you have evidence that A is needed in some contexts, I’m open minded, but I think most people on this forum are of the opinion that it is never beneficial, and that full elimination is the goal (or as close as reasonably possible).
I do have some skepticism about vitamin A being a poison, at least when it's consumed in an unadulterated form in moderate amounts. If someone has hypervitaminosis A, the only solution is a depletion diet. After depletion, a person should probably add some Vitamin A foods(depending on context and tolerance.)
Also, if it's a poison, why is it found in large amounts in breast milk, much higher than typical cow's milk. Additionally, why is there a toxin in milk at all? Last time I checked, heavy metals weren't really high in milk.
In cows, I thought that maybe vitamin A content was variable, depending on which country the cows were milked. I though maybe some countries that fortified cow feed with Vitamin A or beta carotene would result in milk that is higher in the vitamin. But this is not the case. Vitamin A quantity in milk is remarkably consistent in cows across the entire world(I can dig up the studies again later, if you're interested). During spring time, Vitamin A content would increase, and during winter time, the Vitamin A would decrease, but would always stay within 20 percent of the median. At the same time, I have never seen any evidence where Vitamin A content in milk is 0.
This tells me that Vitamin A is obviously something highly regulated and serves a very specific purpose.
Additionally, why is Vitamin A hoarded in such important organs, like the liver, testicles, and the kidneys? It baffles me to think that evolutionary designs would put something in your testicles that will burn them up. This is not to say that excess Vitamin A is harmless. It is just that body has very specific regulation of Vitamin A, that is different from other Vitamins. What causes Vitamin A to be unregulated? What causes the body to misuse it? What other factors are in play? These are all questions I'm continuing to think about as I'm reading about this.
Retinol actually does not exist as a "nutrient" . It is just a transformed (as is vit K2) beta carotene which is essentially a plant pigment and pigments are plant's defense mechanism.
It is present in milk because milk is a form of waste produced by hormonal change (lots of prolactin and estrogen??) during and after pregnancy.
It accumulates in Liver , kidneys and testicles because they are all reservoirs used for elimination of various metabolic byproducts. It accumulates in fat too and in my opinin fat gqin is a body's response to poisoning.
Just an update- cravings for fat are basically gone, as are the holidays. Thankfully, I have no symptoms that returned, and my facial skin didn't suffer as much as it did on butter about two months ago. Appetite for whole grain bread, porridge, and lean turkey is returning back. I think that an occasional indulgence might be in the works. I might start utilizing the weekends to include some quality and relatively safe forms of Vitamin A. For me that basically means some VAT pasteurized, organic heavy whipping cream that is emulsified with some cocoa and a touch of honey.
Quote from YH on December 28, 2018, 12:33 pmQuote from Guest on December 28, 2018, 9:46 amThis assumes “vitamin”-A is actually useful. Although it is an n=1 experiment, Grant’s depletion experiment suggests it isn’t, and may always be harmful, even if the body tries to use it when it is present. He has depleted his body’s stores as much as possible, but doesn’t seem to have any issues with insufficient immunity to infection/viruses. Perhaps he can speak to the state of his immune system.
If you have evidence that A is needed in some contexts, I’m open minded, but I think most people on this forum are of the opinion that it is never beneficial, and that full elimination is the goal (or as close as reasonably possible).
I do have some skepticism about vitamin A being a poison, at least when it's consumed in an unadulterated form in moderate amounts. If someone has hypervitaminosis A, the only solution is a depletion diet. After depletion, a person should probably add some Vitamin A foods(depending on context and tolerance.)
Also, if it's a poison, why is it found in large amounts in breast milk, much higher than typical cow's milk. Additionally, why is there a toxin in milk at all? Last time I checked, heavy metals weren't really high in milk.
In cows, I thought that maybe vitamin A content was variable, depending on which country the cows were milked. I though maybe some countries that fortified cow feed with Vitamin A or beta carotene would result in milk that is higher in the vitamin. But this is not the case. Vitamin A quantity in milk is remarkably consistent in cows across the entire world(I can dig up the studies again later, if you're interested). During spring time, Vitamin A content would increase, and during winter time, the Vitamin A would decrease, but would always stay within 20 percent of the median. At the same time, I have never seen any evidence where Vitamin A content in milk is 0.
This tells me that Vitamin A is obviously something highly regulated and serves a very specific purpose.
Additionally, why is Vitamin A hoarded in such important organs, like the liver, testicles, and the kidneys? It baffles me to think that evolutionary designs would put something in your testicles that will burn them up. This is not to say that excess Vitamin A is harmless. It is just that body has very specific regulation of Vitamin A, that is different from other Vitamins. What causes Vitamin A to be unregulated? What causes the body to misuse it? What other factors are in play? These are all questions I'm continuing to think about as I'm reading about this.
All kinds of toxins show up in mothers milk if the mother is poisoned. Heavy metal content will be higher in milk if the mother has been poisoned with heavy metals. All kinds of toxins are also stored in the liver, and in all the other organs and especially the fat around organs.
What makes you think that nature is perfect or that your perception of perfect is the same as natures' perception of perfection?
Quote from DareToBeNaive on December 28, 2018, 12:51 pmQuote from YH on December 28, 2018, 12:33 pmQuote from Guest on December 28, 2018, 9:46 amThis assumes “vitamin”-A is actually useful. Although it is an n=1 experiment, Grant’s depletion experiment suggests it isn’t, and may always be harmful, even if the body tries to use it when it is present. He has depleted his body’s stores as much as possible, but doesn’t seem to have any issues with insufficient immunity to infection/viruses. Perhaps he can speak to the state of his immune system.
If you have evidence that A is needed in some contexts, I’m open minded, but I think most people on this forum are of the opinion that it is never beneficial, and that full elimination is the goal (or as close as reasonably possible).
I do have some skepticism about vitamin A being a poison, at least when it's consumed in an unadulterated form in moderate amounts. If someone has hypervitaminosis A, the only solution is a depletion diet. After depletion, a person should probably add some Vitamin A foods(depending on context and tolerance.)
Also, if it's a poison, why is it found in large amounts in breast milk, much higher than typical cow's milk. Additionally, why is there a toxin in milk at all? Last time I checked, heavy metals weren't really high in milk.
In cows, I thought that maybe vitamin A content was variable, depending on which country the cows were milked. I though maybe some countries that fortified cow feed with Vitamin A or beta carotene would result in milk that is higher in the vitamin. But this is not the case. Vitamin A quantity in milk is remarkably consistent in cows across the entire world(I can dig up the studies again later, if you're interested). During spring time, Vitamin A content would increase, and during winter time, the Vitamin A would decrease, but would always stay within 20 percent of the median. At the same time, I have never seen any evidence where Vitamin A content in milk is 0.
This tells me that Vitamin A is obviously something highly regulated and serves a very specific purpose.
Additionally, why is Vitamin A hoarded in such important organs, like the liver, testicles, and the kidneys? It baffles me to think that evolutionary designs would put something in your testicles that will burn them up. This is not to say that excess Vitamin A is harmless. It is just that body has very specific regulation of Vitamin A, that is different from other Vitamins. What causes Vitamin A to be unregulated? What causes the body to misuse it? What other factors are in play? These are all questions I'm continuing to think about as I'm reading about this.
Retinol actually does not exist as a "nutrient" . It is just a transformed (as is vit K2) beta carotene which is essentially a plant pigment and pigments are plant's defense mechanism.
It is present in milk because milk is a form of waste produced by hormonal change (lots of prolactin and estrogen??) during and after pregnancy.
It accumulates in Liver , kidneys and testicles because they are all reservoirs used for elimination of various metabolic byproducts. It accumulates in fat too and in my opinin fat gqin is a body's response to poisoning.
I have many questions about this. Why doesn't the body simply decrease absorption? Additionally, why does the body not flush the Vitamin A out using Bile salts. The Liver has the ability to send Vitamin A out of the body, as it does with heavy metals and contaminants. Why does the liver instead release Vitamin A into the serum? Why is Vitamin A present in the serum at a consistent level up until the liver starts to get low on reserves? Why does the release of Vitamin A slow as a person becomes depleted?
I don't have the answers to these questions yet, but I don't think it's that simple.
Quote from somuch4food on December 28, 2018, 10:39 amI don't think vitamin A is essential, but I do think the body is able to use it to its own benefit. The body also has mechanisms to get rid of it like any other toxin as long as it has the opportunity to do so. I don't think zero A is the real solution.
Sure, it works, but it removes a whole lot of enjoyment from life. I am still not desperate enough to go down that path. I have lowered A and probably rarely go over RDI which is progress from before when I would easily double or triple RDI in a single day.
My approach might fail in the end, we'll see.
I personally do not believe in detox and think I should gradually make changes toward better health.
I agree with you. I think paying attention to your senses is the best thing you can do. Also different foods will be better for different people. The most important thing is to pay attention to your body, and if you feel something is off, make positive changes. Trying to strive for arbitrary diet recommendations and reaching certain nutrient thresholds probably caused me more harm than good in the long run.
Hmm nice debate here very good points. I guess you can say nature should know what's best and if vitamin A is there then we do needed.
But I am not sure how much VA would there be naturally if the diet wasn't artificially pumped up with it. I am not sure how much Vitamin A there is in raw milk. What I do know is that the raw dairy farmer I bought from still supplemented their cows with VA and vitamin D. Most herders do the same it's very common all over the world vitamins are pretty cheap.
Would a nursing mom say 100 years ago have access to all those exotic foods with high vitamin A? Or would she be meant eating staples like rice, wheat and oats? How would that affect the VA content of her milk?
On the other hand, you have cultures on the equator like India for example with their ayruvedic medicine and the Chinese also who use herbs, spices and plants that have relatively high VA content as treatment for ailments. Of course their diet otherwise is mainly rice. But maybe the hot and humid environment makes them more prone to infection and the VA might have a beneficial role ? ?
Anyway for myself not taking any chances with VA. The way I see it there is really no downside to this expirements. It's not that restrictive. You guys need to watch those carnivore or zero carb dieters on YouTube to know the meaning of torture.
Quote from DareToBeNaive on December 28, 2018, 12:51 pmQuote from YH on December 28, 2018, 12:33 pmQuote from Guest on December 28, 2018, 9:46 amThis assumes “vitamin”-A is actually useful. Although it is an n=1 experiment, Grant’s depletion experiment suggests it isn’t, and may always be harmful, even if the body tries to use it when it is present. He has depleted his body’s stores as much as possible, but doesn’t seem to have any issues with insufficient immunity to infection/viruses. Perhaps he can speak to the state of his immune system.
If you have evidence that A is needed in some contexts, I’m open minded, but I think most people on this forum are of the opinion that it is never beneficial, and that full elimination is the goal (or as close as reasonably possible).
I do have some skepticism about vitamin A being a poison, at least when it's consumed in an unadulterated form in moderate amounts. If someone has hypervitaminosis A, the only solution is a depletion diet. After depletion, a person should probably add some Vitamin A foods(depending on context and tolerance.)
Also, if it's a poison, why is it found in large amounts in breast milk, much higher than typical cow's milk. Additionally, why is there a toxin in milk at all? Last time I checked, heavy metals weren't really high in milk.
In cows, I thought that maybe vitamin A content was variable, depending on which country the cows were milked. I though maybe some countries that fortified cow feed with Vitamin A or beta carotene would result in milk that is higher in the vitamin. But this is not the case. Vitamin A quantity in milk is remarkably consistent in cows across the entire world(I can dig up the studies again later, if you're interested). During spring time, Vitamin A content would increase, and during winter time, the Vitamin A would decrease, but would always stay within 20 percent of the median. At the same time, I have never seen any evidence where Vitamin A content in milk is 0.
This tells me that Vitamin A is obviously something highly regulated and serves a very specific purpose.
Additionally, why is Vitamin A hoarded in such important organs, like the liver, testicles, and the kidneys? It baffles me to think that evolutionary designs would put something in your testicles that will burn them up. This is not to say that excess Vitamin A is harmless. It is just that body has very specific regulation of Vitamin A, that is different from other Vitamins. What causes Vitamin A to be unregulated? What causes the body to misuse it? What other factors are in play? These are all questions I'm continuing to think about as I'm reading about this.
Retinol actually does not exist as a "nutrient" . It is just a transformed (as is vit K2) beta carotene which is essentially a plant pigment and pigments are plant's defense mechanism.
It is present in milk because milk is a form of waste produced by hormonal change (lots of prolactin and estrogen??) during and after pregnancy.
It accumulates in Liver , kidneys and testicles because they are all reservoirs used for elimination of various metabolic byproducts. It accumulates in fat too and in my opinin fat gqin is a body's response to poisoning.
Vitamin K is a carotene? Where are you getting this
Quote from Guest on December 29, 2018, 1:20 amQuote from DareToBeNaive on December 28, 2018, 12:51 pmQuote from YH on December 28, 2018, 12:33 pmQuote from Guest on December 28, 2018, 9:46 amThis assumes “vitamin”-A is actually useful. Although it is an n=1 experiment, Grant’s depletion experiment suggests it isn’t, and may always be harmful, even if the body tries to use it when it is present. He has depleted his body’s stores as much as possible, but doesn’t seem to have any issues with insufficient immunity to infection/viruses. Perhaps he can speak to the state of his immune system.
If you have evidence that A is needed in some contexts, I’m open minded, but I think most people on this forum are of the opinion that it is never beneficial, and that full elimination is the goal (or as close as reasonably possible).
I do have some skepticism about vitamin A being a poison, at least when it's consumed in an unadulterated form in moderate amounts. If someone has hypervitaminosis A, the only solution is a depletion diet. After depletion, a person should probably add some Vitamin A foods(depending on context and tolerance.)
Also, if it's a poison, why is it found in large amounts in breast milk, much higher than typical cow's milk. Additionally, why is there a toxin in milk at all? Last time I checked, heavy metals weren't really high in milk.
In cows, I thought that maybe vitamin A content was variable, depending on which country the cows were milked. I though maybe some countries that fortified cow feed with Vitamin A or beta carotene would result in milk that is higher in the vitamin. But this is not the case. Vitamin A quantity in milk is remarkably consistent in cows across the entire world(I can dig up the studies again later, if you're interested). During spring time, Vitamin A content would increase, and during winter time, the Vitamin A would decrease, but would always stay within 20 percent of the median. At the same time, I have never seen any evidence where Vitamin A content in milk is 0.
This tells me that Vitamin A is obviously something highly regulated and serves a very specific purpose.
Additionally, why is Vitamin A hoarded in such important organs, like the liver, testicles, and the kidneys? It baffles me to think that evolutionary designs would put something in your testicles that will burn them up. This is not to say that excess Vitamin A is harmless. It is just that body has very specific regulation of Vitamin A, that is different from other Vitamins. What causes Vitamin A to be unregulated? What causes the body to misuse it? What other factors are in play? These are all questions I'm continuing to think about as I'm reading about this.
Retinol actually does not exist as a "nutrient" . It is just a transformed (as is vit K2) beta carotene which is essentially a plant pigment and pigments are plant's defense mechanism.
It is present in milk because milk is a form of waste produced by hormonal change (lots of prolactin and estrogen??) during and after pregnancy.
It accumulates in Liver , kidneys and testicles because they are all reservoirs used for elimination of various metabolic byproducts. It accumulates in fat too and in my opinin fat gqin is a body's response to poisoning.
Vitamin K is a carotene? Where are you getting this
It(K1) is not carotene. It(K2) is also not a "nutrient" in my opinion. It is also found in livers and fats of animals and that indicates to me that it's very similar to retinol. Grass fed is the biggest naturalistic fad these days for making money.
"I have many questions about this. Why doesn't the body simply decrease absorption? Additionally, why does the body not flush the Vitamin A out using Bile salts. The Liver has the ability to send Vitamin A out of the body, as it does with heavy metals and contaminants. Why does the liver instead release Vitamin A into the serum? Why is Vitamin A present in the serum at a consistent level up until the liver starts to get low on reserves? Why does the release of Vitamin A slow as a person becomes depleted?
I don't have the answers to these questions yet, but I don't think it's that simple."
Absorption? It's not absorption just accumulation. When toxind or poison interacts with the body's chemistry it cannot be just "eliminated". Heavy metals and contaminants also accumulate in the same places as vitA. Maybe the liver releases vitA because there is constantly new amount coming in from the diet and when that stops it can slowly decrease that release over time. It's like a signaling mechanism .
Well in my opinion if something is not simple and is hard to understand than it's false.