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ATRA Antagonizes the Action of Calciferol in Rats
VD is the invert of VA. VD is yang (see the WAPF article about the yin yang of CLO, also it is created through sunlight so of course it's yang). VA is yin, carotenoids were originally created as a plant leaf protection against yang sunlight. VA is usually in excess in the diet, VD is deficient in the diet. When our skin is exposed to sunlight our body destroys VA and creates VD.
This makes VD an antidote for VA. All of the vitamins and minerals in sufficient amounts are needed for VA detox support however VD is an antidote. It just happens to be the vitamin that people are most deficient in. Sufficient Vitamin D provides such a survival advantage that natural selection favoured lower melanin in higher latitudes. VD deficiency is epidemic in the West and is probably a major contributor to VA toxicity symptoms.
VA excess causes mental illness, fatigue, skin problems, hairloss, thyroid issues and many other problems. VD sufficiency improves these things.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0e1d/114331872e358cec5ae36a791bed72e2465b.pdf
Cod Liver Oil, Vitamin A Toxicity, Frequent Respiratory
Infections, and the Vitamin D Deficiency Epidemic
As early as 1933, Alfred Hess, who discovered that sunlight both prevented and cured
rickets — writing in JAMA — warned about vitamin A consumption, concluding, “...as to a requirement of
thousands of units of vitamin A daily, the unquestionable answer is that this constitutes therapeutic absurdity,
which, happily, will prove to be only a passing fad.”4
In a recent assessment of serum retinyl esters in a group of obese Wisconsin adults, 4% had levels of more
than 10% of total retinol, which usually indicates hypervitaminosis A.4
A meta-analysis concluded that vitamin A, when given alone, slightly increased the incidence of respiratory tract infections.46 If vitamin A increases the risk of respiratory infections by antagonizing the action of
vitamin D, its high content in modern cod liver oils will mask the benefit of adequate vitamin D nutrition. As
the prevalence of vitamin A deficiency in the United States — but not in the Third World — is much lower
than the prevalence of subclinical vitamin A toxicity,47 we cannot recommend cod liver oil or even multivitamins with preformed retinol (retinyl palmitate and retinyl acetate) for either adults or children.
I agree VD is important, and an ally.
However, I don't think being replete in VD will stop VA from hurting you entirely.I've come to take these "relationships" between vitamins and minerals with a grain of salt?
I know someone who is in the late stages of this VA fight, and she has always taken tons of VD AND she lives in sunny Florida, and still the problems eventually caught up. Of interest: she blamed sunlight for CAUSING her discoid lupus... (skin lupus) (perhaps the sun caused detox)
On the other hand, I know someone whose asthma "cured" after moving to Florida.
And of course, there are statistics that show that Multiple Sclerosis (hardening of the nerves) is much more prevalent in northern areas.
I remember reading that some people aren't good at making VD from sunlight?
Even though I've sworn off of supps, I keep a bottle of VD in case I need it this winter.
Sunlight def stirs things up, I wonder if VD supps should be approached slowly.
I think our ancestors got lots of VD from pastured lard, A food that has gone from "everyone eats" to almost "no one eats"... in 100 years. Probably this is the huge change Price searched the world for. He was right, eat store food, get store teeth. His era is when Crisco was invented and people stopped buying fat from farmers and instead from captains of industry.
And then later things got worse when people started using sun screens. However, avoiding sun isn't new. People in all sorts of cultures do it. Is it smart? Maybe only if they have a food source!
Yesterday was as bright and clear as a diamond, with new white snow everywhere. It was blinding. I felt like it was piercing my brain.
edited to add: Crisco is a brand of shortening produced by The J.M. Smucker Company popular in the United States. Introduced in June 1911 by Procter & Gamble, it was the first shortening to be made entirely of vegetable oil (cottonseed).
@lil-chick antidotes don't work if the poison is still being ingested in large amounts
Looking at getting all the micronutrients in sufficient amounts to help with va toxicity, we would often see that Vit D levels are the rate limiting factor. VDRs dimerize with RXRs so I imagine that Vit D levels in someone with excess VA will have a significant impact on gene expression.
Praise the lard.
Percentage of people in Western countries with vitamin deficiencies:
Vitamin A: <1%
NHANES has also reported serum retinol concentrations: less than 1% of the US population is deficient in vitamin A (36).
https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/micronutrient-inadequacies/overview
B12: 6% in those under 60
Vitamin B12 deficiency in the US and the UK is estimated to occur in about 6 percent of those under the age of 60, and 20 percent of those over the age of 60.[1] In Latin America, about 40 percent are estimated to be affected, and this may be as high as 80 per cent in parts of Africa and Asia.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12_deficiency
Vitamin C: 7%
Vitamin C deficiency is defined as a serum concentration of less than 11.4 umol/L, and prevalence varies across the world, with rates as low as 7.1% in the United States and up to 73.9% in north India.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK493187/
Vitamin D: 23%-40%
This study was conducted primarily to analyze the prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in the United States based on the latest published data collected by NHANES 2011-2012. Of the 4962 participants surveyed and examined, 1981 (39.92%) were found to be vitamin D deficient, which was in concordance with prior data collected in 2005-2006 (also by NHANES). A cross-sectional study was then conducted to further stratify the population to find factors associated with the risk of vitamin D deficiency, of which several were identified.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6075634/
In the years of 2011-12, it was estimated that around 4 million adults were considered deficient in Vitamin D throughout Australia.[1] The Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) found 23%, or one in four Australian adults suffer from some form of Vitamin D deficiency
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_deficiency_in_Australia
Could hemochromatosis and iron toxicity issues be partly caused by low Vitamin D (and indirectly by high VA)? If not it seems that high iron stores cause a D deficiency.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3838288
Low serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D in hereditary hemochromatosis: relation to iron status.
Abstract
Under normal conditions, vitamin D absorbed from the diet or synthesized in the skin is transported to the liver where it undergoes hydroxylation. The purpose of this study was to determine whether excess hepatic iron affects this process and the subsequent production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (1,25-[OH]2D) in the kidney. Mean serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25-OHD) concentrations in untreated hereditary hemochromatosis were 13 +/- 6 (SD) in 9 patients with cirrhosis, 13 +/- 6 in 5 patients with hepatic fibrosis, and 22 +/- 6 in 10 patients with normal hepatic architecture aside from siderosis and were significantly lower than the levels found in 24 controls matched for age, sex, and season, p less than 0.05. The mean serum 25-OHD levels in the two groups with hemochromatosis and hepatic damage were significantly lower than the value in the group with normal hepatic architecture, p less than 0.05. Serum 25-OHD levels in individual patients were inversely related to the size of body iron stores as measured by exchangeable body iron, r = -0.64, or serum ferritin, r = -0.47, p less than 0.05. In 15 patients removal of excess body iron by venesection therapy produced a significant increase in the mean serum 25-OHD from 20 ng/ml to 30 ng/ml, p less than 0.05. In contrast, mean serum 1,25-[OH]2D levels were similar in iron-loaded and control subjects, indicating that the regulation of this metabolite was intact in patients with hemochromatosis. The results reveal that the low serum 25-OHD concentration in patients with hemochromatosis is directly related to the extent of iron loading and it is improved by venesection therapy.
People receiving blood get Vitamin D deficiency so it seems that iron does create a D deficiency:
https://ashpublications.org/blood/article/120/21/3203/84532/Association-Between-Increased-Liver-Iron
Association Between Increased Liver Iron Concentration and Vitamin D Deficiency in Patients with Transfusion Dependent Hemoglobinopathies in British Columbia
Conclusion:
In this single center study of patients with transfusion dependent hemoglobinopathies, we found a significant association between LIC ≥5 mg/gDW and vitamin D level <60 nmol/L, with an inverse correlation between LIC and vitamin D level, suggesting that liver IOL may affect hepatic vitamin D metabolism and result in deficiency. These results warrant verification in larger numbers of patients and prospective trials and investigation of whether vitamin D insufficiency is linked to clinical endpoints. Patients may require intensification of vitamin D supplementation, and/or intensification of iron chelation therapy, particularly if a link to clinical consequences is demonstrated.
High VA diets plus lack of blood letting as was done all through history may be largely to blame for the D deficiency epidemic. What do you guys think?
If someone full of VA and iron goes to a doctor and the doctor finds they have low D levels and gets prescribed D, will that D actually help much and will the patient see much improvement in symptoms? Perhaps the problem is more to do with iron and VA interfering with D metabolism and VDRs? If blood is let and VA levels lowered perhaps more health issues will be resolved due to removal of VA and iron toxicity and allowing Vit D to function unimpeded?
Quote from lil chick on December 9, 2019, 6:55 amI agree VD is important, and an ally.
However, I don't think being replete in VD will stop VA from hurting you entirely.
I just want to make it clear that this is what I believe too. I do think that Vit D can counteract a lot of the toxic effects of VA though.
Antidote: something that relieves, prevents, or counteracts
An antidote is not usually something that removes a poison from the body, often only time can do that. For example Vit K is used to treat warfarin overdose. Warfarin antagonizes Vit K so they just give a lot more Vit K to counteract the effect of warfarin. Same with methanol poisoning, ethanol is an antidote. Again it doesn't remove methanol from the body but it helps because the body preferentially metabolizes ethanol over methanol allowing methanol to be excreted instead of converting to formaldehyde.
Also and this is unrelated but related to methanol, I wonder if part of the addiction alcoholics have to ethanol is to do with avoiding methanol breakdown. Most peoples diets contain significant amounts of pectin which converts into methanol in the gut and supplies most of the formaldehyde in the diet. PECTIN = FORMALDEHYDE. When a person starts drinking alcohol throughout the day it gives them relief from methanol breakdown which unit for unit is far more damaging than ethanol. All fruit and vegetables contain pectin. I think it makes sense to avoid fruit juice and dried fruit and to limit the amount of fruit and veg to a few servings per day.
Quote from tim on December 11, 2019, 7:51 pmAlso and this is unrelated but related to methanol, I wonder if part of the addiction alcoholics have to ethanol is to do with avoiding methanol breakdown. Most peoples diets contain significant amounts of pectin which converts into methanol in the gut and supplies most of the formaldehyde in the diet. PECTIN = FORMALDEHYDE. When a person starts drinking alcohol throughout the day it gives them relief from methanol breakdown which unit for unit is far more damaging than ethanol. All fruit and vegetables contain pectin. I think it makes sense to avoid fruit juice and dried fruit and to limit the amount of fruit and veg to a few servings per day.
@tim-2, the only supplement I have been using recently is apple pectin, and it has seemed to be helping, I use it like activated charcoal, taking some before meals. Pectin is supposed to be good at mopping up vitamin A.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12214556
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987715002443
Methanol, with only a handful of significant dietary sources, is reliably found in just one of the major food groups, fruits and vegetables, where it is chemically locked safely to pectin, which can pass digestion without absorption by the gut. However, when fruit, vegetable or other juices are heat processed and packaged for distribution, methanol is released over time from pectin’s strong methyl ester bond and the free methanol is trapped in the container, readily available for quick absorption upon consumption. Ready to serve juice drinks have become very popular since being introduced by traditional carbonated beverage companies in the late 1970s as a “healthy” alternative in vending machines to an increasingly health conscious public. These juice drinks would, by now, have been considered the major source of methanol in the American diet if it were not for the extraordinarily rapid and massive introduction of aspartame, which reliably releases 10% of its weight as methanol within minutes of consumption.
Hi mate,
The first study is just talking about preventing the absorption of dietary betacarotene which doesn't interest me because it's better to just avoid high carotene sources.
The second study is really wrong about pectin. It has been proven through pectin feeding that consumption of it significantly raises methanol blood levels. See this thread: https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/formaldehyde-in-foods/ I highly recommend reading the whole document that my post references, it is mind blowing. Monte gets it really wrong about fruit and vegetables, aspartame is terrible stuff but he has strong bias in his recommendations.
This is the document:
COT STATEMENT ON THE EFFECTS OF CHRONIC DIETARY EXPOSURE TO
METHANOL
https://cot.food.gov.uk/sites/default/files/cot/cotstatementmethanol201102revjuly.pdf
The above document references this study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9267548
Abstract
After the consumption of fruit, the concentration of methanol in the human body increases by as much as an order of magnitude. This is due to the degradation of natural pectin (which is esterified with methyl alcohol) in the human colon. In vivo tests performed by means of proton‐transfer‐reaction mass spectrometry show that consumed pectin in either a pure form (10 to 15 g) or a natural form (in 1 kg of apples) induces a significant increase of methanol in the breath (and by inference in the blood) of humans. The amount generated from pectin (0.4 to 1.4 g) is approximately equivalent to the total daily endogenous production (measured to be 0.3 to 0.6 g/day) or that obtained from 0.3 liters of 80‐proof brandy (calculated to be 0.5 g). This dietary pectin may contribute to the development of nonalcoholic cirrhosis of the liver.
Quote from tim on December 12, 2019, 7:08 amHi mate,
The first study is just talking about preventing the absorption of dietary betacarotene which doesn't interest me because it's better to just avoid high carotene sources.
The second study is really wrong about pectin. It has been proven through pectin feeding that consumption of it significantly raises methanol blood levels. See this thread: https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/formaldehyde-in-foods/ I highly recommend reading the whole document that my post references, it is mind blowing. Monte gets it really wrong about fruit and vegetables, aspartame is terrible stuff but he has strong bias in his recommendations.
Thanks @tim-2 will read through that thread again. This health studies stuff is always so polarized, glad to have these discussions!