Quote from Inger on January 8, 2024, 4:28 am

Quote from Moebius on January 8, 2024, 2:25 am

Quote from Janelle525 on January 7, 2024, 11:46 am

We have a major problem with the allergen theory. It's usually not just one thing. I have psoriasis in my butt crack, I tried at least a month of zero milk proteins, I had zero improvement. Same with gluten. And I gave that one I think 2 months. I also had zero improvement going off nightshades like chili powder and potatoes, I have never seen any improvement in eliminating common allergens the only thing I haven't tried yet is going on an extreme elimination diet. That's why Grant's theory is so compelling, it's not just the same old regurgitated line of the immune system attacking our own cells. We have to ask more questions. Also if it was gluten intolerance for Grant he wouldn't have been able to introduce gluten again. The dairy might have been a good reason as dairy IS associated with eczema and allergies, but then why are people not cured if it's only dairy protein allergy? Grant asked all these questions already. I think he gives a good theory as to why all of a sudden an adult would have problems or why a child 'grows out of' their eczema (only to have another autoimmune disease later in life). The liver and kidneys get to a point of not be able to keep up with the load of vitamin A.

I've had the exact same psoriasis problem as you, since 2006.  Now on the daily fiber, it is going away, itchiness is fading.  If anyone else wants to try this I'll send them my recipe.  Key ingredients are elephant yam, starch from raw potatoes, inulin, coconut flour, chia and flax seeds, and a few other things.

Also I've tweaked Grant's diet a little bit; for the rice I put half brown rice and half white rice together.  And for the beans, I put half lentils, and half black beans.  And, as per the advice of Andrew, 2 tablespoons of quinoa.

1/2 cup brown rice

1/2 cup white rice

1/4 cup lentils

1/4 cup black beans

2 tablespoons quinoa

1 teaspoon salt

3 cups water

season to taste, a pinch of whole coriander, fennel, cumin, mustard, and celery seeds.   Cook all together in the electric "Instant Pot" pressure cooker for 20 minutes.

Also hard boil 4 eggs for 4 minutes, peel and eat.

Quite interesting thing you are doing! A wild variety of fiber and starches. Might be doing some good to your gut flora too. So fascinating that your long time psoriasis is fading with this.

Every so often I get this idea to go back to carnivore just to lose weight fast and because I loved the simpleness of it... but then I dont, because I really have a feeling the fibers do something good. Its like they are cleansing on a deep level. Just patience is needed because it does not go fast. Bit by bit drop by drop.. the toxic bile is taken out.

I also try to mix up my legumes, not doing only one. I do lentils too and then a variety of beans. Feels safer and more effective, also the risk of too much oxalates get lower. Lentils are low oxalate. Lentils are also the oldest version of legumes.

Quote from lil chick on January 8, 2024, 6:32 am

This thread is so interesting!   More ideas are always better!

I hope that it is *true* that you don't have to go ultra-low VA in order to detox.   Because actually I'm NOT ultra-low VA.    And I've managed to get rid of my chronic headaches and vomiting and have gotten so that I can travel a bit without nausea.   I suppose I'm not ultra-low  because I wish that I never left the diet of my grandmother and her old-world ways, and her diet wasn't ultra-low.  I wasn't in the market for a health guru or special diet when I arrived, and I'm still not.   Less (change) is often more.

I know a very healthy guy from Nepal (gosh the teeth on him!) and he has told me lentils are the go-to legume for his family.

Lately I've been extremely interested in the work of Dr O'Mara and wonder if he to has found another *different* way into the vicious cycle, to add to the list of Grant, Dr Wahl and Dr Goldner.   

One thing I'm pretty sure of though:   Fermented cod liver oil is NOT the way to cut into the vicious cycle!   nor VA acne meds...  The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Why are Americans so sick? https://www.ajc.com/life/according-to-a-recent-poll-pizza-is-officially-americas-favorite-food/JHGCWVWMQFGERPFL37ID4KB5PI/.    Gosh I love pizza!

Quote from Inger on January 8, 2024, 9:10 am

Yeah... I have concluded, regions on earth that have a lot of legumes in their diet traditionally, are the prettiest people... 😉 🙂 so thats one reason why I want to include them too. If they balance hormones and help clean the liver, that would be no wonder. The eskimo´s did not eat legumes and they are imho not the prettiest people... if its allowed to say this. haha I know I am crazy 😉

Karen Hurd has very healthy looking teeth overall too btw. My teeth have always been very important to me. I just dont want them to rot away like my parents do.

Quote from Anon33 on February 8, 2024, 9:19 pm

Revisiting this to see if anyone has a good explanation as to how people are recovering from autoimmune diseases while ingesting 1,000+ mcg of vitamin A daily. It just doesn’t make sense to me if the vitamin a theory is correct. There’s a lot of very smart people on this site so I figured I’d ask one last time in case there was something I wasn’t thinking of.

Quote from Tommy on February 8, 2024, 10:49 pm

Quote from Anon33 on February 8, 2024, 9:19 pm

Revisiting this to see if anyone has a good explanation as to how people are recovering from autoimmune diseases while ingesting 1,000+ mcg of vitamin A daily. It just doesn’t make sense to me if the vitamin a theory is correct. There’s a lot of very smart people on this site so I figured I’d ask one last time in case there was something I wasn’t thinking of.

I’ve said this before but I’ll keep repeating it when questions like this pop up:

80% of preformed retinol is absorbed into the body when consumed. 100% of that stays as retinol.

3% of beta-carotene (BC) is absorbed into the body when consumed. Only 5% of the 3% BC that is absorbed is converted to retinol.

Overall that’s 0.15% of dietary BC that turns to retinol in the body.

Right there you’re roughly looking at a potential 1:500 ratio when comparing the accumulation of retinol from foods with pre-formed retinol vs beta-carotene.

 

Combine this with the fact that the Goldner diet has a tonne of fiber and nutrients that would assist with the process of vit A elimination (+ other toxins) from bile.

This may explain why Brooke Goldner and those who follow her methodology don’t run into problems with vit A accumulation.

Quote from Anon33 on February 9, 2024, 2:37 pm

Quote from Tommy on February 8, 2024, 10:49 pm

 

80% of preformed retinol is absorbed into the body when consumed. 100% of that stays as retinol.

3% of beta-carotene (BC) is absorbed into the body when consumed. Only 5% of the 3% BC that is absorbed is converted to retinol.

Overall that’s 0.15% of dietary BC that turns to retinol in the body.

Right there you’re roughly looking at a potential 1:500 ratio when comparing the accumulation of retinol from foods with pre-formed retinol vs beta-carotene.

 

Combine this with the fact that the Goldner diet has a tonne of fiber and nutrients that would assist with the process of vit A elimination (+ other toxins) from bile.

This may explain why Brooke Goldner and those who follow her methodology don’t run into problems with vit A accumulation.

Hi Tommy,

 

Thanks for the reply but that does not appear to be accurate. Please see this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854912/#:~:text=A%20summary%20of%20the%20major,%E2%80%9328%3A1%20by%20weight.

"A summary of the major human studies that determined conversion factors for dietary β-carotene to retinol is presented here, and these data show that the conversion efficiency of dietary β-carotene to retinol is in the range of 3.6–28:1 by weight. "

 

 

Also if what you said was true then I have no idea why Grant or anyone on this site would ever think the contribution of plant matter to the Vitamin A toxicity problem would be meaningful as so little would ever actually be converted to retinol.

 

I am also not sure if the USDA nutrient database already performs this conversion for us. For example look at the listing for Spinach:

https://fdc.nal.usda.gov/fdc-app.html#/food-details/168462/nutrients

Vitamin A, RAE

469

Carotene, beta

5630

µg

Vitamin A, IU

9380

IU

So the conversion factor may already be taken into account.

Quote from Armin on February 9, 2024, 6:49 pm

Quote from Jessica2 on February 9, 2024, 5:49 pm

@anon33 I'm inclined to believe Tommy on this one. There has never been a case of any acute poisoning on beta-carotene supplements. Its always pre-formed animal derived VA like polar bear liver or supplements with preformed retinols derived from animal sources. (Im not saying take beta carotene supplements!)

The one case that has been brought up on the site before is the man who died orange because he drank so much carrot juice. Well the man was also taking astronomical amounts of vitamin A supplements at the same time so I don't think that's a good example to go by.

Now maybe some people are more sensitive to carotenes or are better at converting so they avoid them but on the whole I'd rather eat a tomato, watermelon, or peaches than liver, especially away from fat sources and you're not going to absorb much of that beta-carotene.

Can you over, time and eating many many sources of plant carotene's become sick? I think that's a question that actually has been unanswered. I think the fiber matrix helps as would not eating fat with them.

I'm with you. Animal vitamin A is much more dangerous and damaging.

 

Beta-Carotene absorbed in excess is stored in various tissues and it is primarily eliminated in the bile, like retinol and retinoic acid metabolites among other excesses. What I don't understand is why beta-carotene needs to be converted to retinol in order to be detoxed. It doesn't seem to need to be since beta-carotene is eliminated through the intestines via the bile. The idea that beta-carotene needs to be converted to retinol and retinoic acid doesn't seem correct. If it doesn't need to be converted for detoxification, I wonder why the body converts some to retinol. From what I've read below, liver health was observed to have something to do with the beta-carotene:retinol ratio. Maybe beta-carotene is converted over to retinol to maintain this ratio. And excess beta-carotene and retinol is excreted to maintain this ratio.

 

Is beta-carotene inflammatory?

 

In the present study, β-carotene and lycopene exerted potent anti-inflammatory activity by suppressing Cox2, Nos2, and Tnfa gene expression and also by up-regulating the gene expression of Hmox1.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5905192/#:~:text=In%20the%20present%20study%2C%20β,the%20gene%20expression%20of%20Hmox1.

Can beta-carotene hurt the liver?

 

 

However, the liver damage and steatosis imposed by the high concentration of ROS were improved with the intake of apricots rich in β-carotene. Liu et al. [124] found that in a cell culture system, β-carotene could decrease the hepatosteatosis induced by the hepatitis C virus (HCV) by inhibiting RNA replication.

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3921/8/7/229#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20liver%20damage%20and,HCV)%20by%20inhibiting%20RNA%20replication.

 

The half-lives determined in decreasing order were as follows: lutein (76 d) > alpha-carotene (45 d) = beta-cryptoxanthin (39 d) = zeaxanthin (38 d) = beta-carotene (37 d) > lycopene (26 d). Half-lives were unrelated to physical or demographic characteristics such as body mass, body fat, racial background or age in these relatively homogeneous groups. Carotenoids decreased by similar first-order mechanisms, although the rates differed for individual carotenoids.

 

Another says that The apparent half-life of beta-carotene is of 6-11 days after initial administration.²

https://go.drugbank.com/articles/A32487

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/proceedings-of-the-nutrition-society/article/carotene-in-the-human-body-metabolic-bioactivation-pathways-from-digestion-to-tissue-distribution-and-excretion/CAE419E20C28FDACB62F41CAF91DB646

Quote from Armin on February 9, 2024, 9:50 pm

beta-carotene supposedly improved gut microbiome.

"The idea that dietary β-carotene can also exert its beneficial effects by perturbing the complex and large microbial community residing in the gastrointestinal tract (intestinal microbiome) is gaining traction [16, 32, 33], as is the case with other carotenoids, including lycopene, astaxanthin and fucoxanthin [34–41]."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9940628/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20idea%20that%20dietary,lycopene%2C%20astaxanthin%20and%20fucoxanthin%20%5B34

 

It is interesting that I felt the best when I was eating beta-carotene rich foods. Once I went ket0/carnivore, it really did a number on my GI system. I used to tolerate coffee very well, but after I went keto/carn, it really doesn't set well at all. 1oz of coffee makes me go insane, caf or decaf. May be due to removal of beta-carotene.  

Quote from lil chick on February 10, 2024, 7:25 am

There was the smoker study in which it was shown that outcomes were worse with the beta carotene, and the sweet potato eaters who end up blind and handicapped.

Personally, I've seen itchyness with foods that are orange as they come through the pipes.    As I've said before I think pigments in general are problematic.   I think that is why we convert them, to make them not-pigments.   So they don't dye our cells like the  plastic tub that holds your spaghetti.