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Cacao Butter: Safe to eat?
Dear @jaj, my own observations make a connection between B6 toxicity possibly being a Thiamine deficiency for some us. But that is an observation with myself. Before I started the low A diet I thought a lot of my symptoms were possibly related to B6 toxicty (dizziness 24/7, panic, nerve pain in head) which a Naturopath had me supplement once.
I made the connection in hindsight remembering I had been experiencing weird pain sensations for a couple of months in my right arm and neck and nerve pain on the right side of my head and in my right eye. I also had a few swollen lymph nodes in my neck in which various tests led me no furtherr… I also upped my CBD dose at this time and eventually everything went down, and further down, hill.
I believe now I was probably vitamin A toxic all along with a very damaged liver (which is still difficult to admit for someone who always felt they were taking care of their liver)! and Thiamine deficient too, along with other B vitamin deficiencies. I have never been tested, it’s just my intuition and observations. Whenever I eat high B6 foods I get tinnitus, anxious and nerve pain, which the other B vitamins seem to help alleviate. I am only working with my own patterns which has involved a lot of tweaking over the years. I could be totally wrong, but it’s what I’ve got. Maybe I need more B6 too? It’s this strange paradox that I am still trying to figure out without going back to overthinking everything that I eat. I am finally trusting my body a bit more and letting my intuition guide me again.
I am curious Jenny how long you’ve been low A and what some of the symptoms you struggle with are. What helps you and what doesn’t help you etc. Btw I am quite new to Stephanie Seneff, but her approach to health intrigues me a lot.
About aldehydes… the last 10 months months of the diet have almost been the toughest for me, a lot of liver/gall/pancreas discomfort, but also with some breakthroughs, one minor symptom being a forehead rash that comes and goes depending on what I eat, which always seems to get triggered by high aldehyde foods! But I am happy to say I am making progress again in this area and drinking enough water each day has also helped me a lot. Maybe taking the other B vitamins too? I believe this low A diet is a lengthy process but it does seem to get better, maybe slower for some of us, but it does seem to get better.
Hi @audrey thanks for sharing your B6 observations. I think if you can trust your body and intuition then it’s very helpful. I don’t think I’m very good at that. I just don’t know about B6. My old NT Anne Pemberton is a pyroluria expert and uses a lot of B6. When she found out I wasn’t taking it she told me to get back on it. Another very good NT I know (Margaret Moss) says that B6 deficiency is often B2 deficiency. This is a really useful paper I think. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232041262_The_Plasma_CysteineSulphate_Ratio_A_Possible_Clinical_Biomarker
B6 is an essential cofactor for the CBS enzyme that allows homocysteine to pass down into the trans sulphuration pathway where glutathione, taurine, sulphate and other essential molecules are made. Important to have enough I think.
I’ve been low vA for 3 years, although I no longer eat a very limited diet so I’m just not high vA nowadays. My vA toxicity symptoms are largely gone but I still get reflux and have an issue with anxiety at times. When I was toxic my most obvious symptom was excessive unexplained weight gain. I also had eye symptoms, pulse tinnitus, headaches, rosacea and general tiredness. Generally felt rubbish. I lost my appetite but my weight was shooting up! I became prediabetic and my cholesterol shot up into a very unhealthy range. My test results have now normalised and I’ve lost 18lbs. However, I’m not back to baseline yet.
I now believe in a gentle approach to reducing vA. I don’t think going on a very limited diet for a long time is a good idea. (Obviously Grant is doing this in the name of science and I have great respect for this). I think that reducing stress is very important. Sleep, sunshine, organic diet, fibre, enjoying life (if possible), breathing correctly, plenty of water, moderate excercise, walking in Nature. I think that all these things are important. Becoming overly limited and obsessive about food is not helpful imo, however, some people have dramatic reactions so may have to be more careful initially. I don’t think trying to speed things up is a good idea. Letting the body re balance at its own rate is probably better. Slow and steady. I could of course be wrong.
This is my favourite aldehyde paper. I’ve learnt a lot from it. Poor interpretation of vA of course although they do recognise that retinaldehyde would just add to the aldehyde burden.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4910734/
Edit: one symptom that developed while on the vA detox and has never gone away is ruined fingernails. Before the detox I had smooth fingernails. Now they are ridged with beading. I don’t know why. Damage to body while removing vA that has not yet been corrected? Deficiency of B vitamins? Other? Would love to correct this. It can’t be a good sign.
Quote from Jenny on October 15, 2021, 12:08 pmHi @audrey thanks for sharing your B6 observations. I think if you can trust your body and intuition then it’s very helpful. I don’t think I’m very good at that. I just don’t know about B6. My old NT Anne Pemberton is a pyroluria expert and uses a lot of B6. When she found out I wasn’t taking it she told me to get back on it. Another very good NT I know (Margaret Moss) says that B6 deficiency is often B2 deficiency. This is a really useful paper I think. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232041262_The_Plasma_CysteineSulphate_Ratio_A_Possible_Clinical_Biomarker
B6 is an essential cofactor for the CBS enzyme that allows homocysteine to pass down into the trans sulphuration pathway where glutathione, taurine, sulphate and other essential molecules are made. Important to have enough I think.
I would like to note that the fact that they consider something to be cofactors is (often) not so. For example, VA is known as a "cofactor" in the synthesis of cerruloplasmin. But Grant lives without it. Really, there are only a few studies where cerruloplasmin increases with the introduction of vitamin A. And that's all! I could name many similar examples here, but the bottom line is that what they call a "cofactor" is often not in the sense in which we understand it (when reading definitions in dictionaries).
I apologize if it is crookedly written, I am bad at English and write as I would write it in Russian. I don't know English syntax well.
I didn't really go into the topic of pyrroluria, but I remember thar Ray said that it was just a consequence of the strong oxidation of omega 6 in the body. And VB6, guess what it does? Helps to assimilate PUFA! They consider it a plus. lol.
@daniil I don’t think that vA is a co factor for an enzyme in the way that say B6 is for CBS, for example. The B vitamins are often cofactors (co enzymes maybe the correct term) for enzymes. Using extra B vitamins can often help over ride genetic SNPs in enzymes. Your English is great.
Many people have many different theories about pyroluria. I have no idea who is correct! I tend to listen to Anne Pemberton because I know her. She has a good webinar about pyroluria on her website.
Quote from Jenny on October 15, 2021, 12:36 pm@daniil I don’t think that vA is a co factor for an enzyme in the way that say B6 is for CBS, for example. The B vitamins are often cofactors (co enzymes maybe the correct term) for enzymes. Using extra B vitamins can often help over ride genetic SNPs in enzymes. Your English is great.
Many people have many different theories about pyroluria. I have no idea who is correct! I tend to listen to Anne Pemberton because I know her. She has a good webinar about pyroluria on her website.
Offhand, I can also assume that the "genetic change in B6 metabolism" that they believe is the cause of pyrroluria may simply be a symptom of B6 poisoning. By analogy with the fact that they consider leukoplakia to be a "change in vitamin A metabolism". And they also treat it with VA supplements.
Why would you say that? I agree that pyroluria isn’t fully understood but I doubt it’s B6 poisoning. Why the hate for B6? If it’s not being used properly and builds up in system then I know it is toxic (I follow B6 toxicity with great interest) but that doesn’t mean it’s not an essential nutrient and that B6 deficiency (as in pyroluria) isn’t a huge problem too. It’s never just one thing imo. Don’t want too much (especially if not being used correctly) but don’t want too little either.
I don’t personally think it’s in the least bit useful to use the paradigm that because vA science is wrong, all vitamin science is wrong. If a vitamin is a co-enzyme for an enzyme then it is a co-enzyme for an enzyme. I do not see how this can be wrong.
The B6 deficiency in pyroluria is supposed to be created by the excess pyrroles (HPL) binding to the B6 and therefore making it unavailable to do it’s co-enzyme job. The origins of pyroluria are said to be genetic or trauma. I think it comes down to liver health.
Anne Pemberton in her pyroluria webinar describes CBS a ‘closed gate’ in people with pyroluria. This means a closed gate to the making of glutathione, taurine, sulphate etc. This is a MASSIVE problem for health. Dismissing B6 deficiency is, I suspect, a mistake.
Why would you say that? I agree that pyroluria isn’t fully understood but I doubt it’s B6 poisoning. Why the hate for B6? If it’s not being used properly and builds up in system then I know it is toxic (I follow B6 toxicity with great interest) but that doesn’t mean it’s not an essential nutrient and that B6 deficiency (as in pyroluria) isn’t a huge problem too. It’s never just one thing imo. Don’t want too much (especially if not being used correctly) but don’t want too little either.
I don’t personally think it’s in the least bit useful to use the paradigm that because vA science is wrong, all vitamin science is wrong. If a vitamin is a co-enzyme for an enzyme then it is a co-enzyme for an enzyme. I do not see how this can be wrong.
The B6 deficiency in pyroluria is supposed to be created by the excess pyrroles (HPL) binding to the B6 and therefore making it unavailable to do it’s co-enzyme job. The origins of pyroluria are said to be genetic or trauma. I think it comes down to liver health.
Anne Pemberton in her pyroluria webinar describes CBS a ‘closed gate’ in people with pyroluria. This means a closed gate to the making of glutathione, taurine, sulphate etc. This is a MASSIVE problem for health. Dismissing B6 deficiency is, I suspect, a mistake.
I don't hate b6, what makes you think that?
I mean, your body can produce pyrroles to get rid of excess B6. And what they consider a deficiency of B6 is often an altered metabolism, when there may be low concentrations of pyridoxine(or pyridoxal phosphate) in the blood, but high of other forms(there are 6).
I can hardly believe that your body "just like that" will start producing toxic substances due to genetics.
Quote from Audrey on October 14, 2021, 8:07 amDear @christian,
The CBD definitely tipped me over the edge in 2016/2017 and was the catalyst for me eventually discovering and starting the low A diet… I had been a regular CBD user for a few years prior and I intuitively believe it made my liver toxic or put me in a detox loop that I had no idea how to get out of... I saw improvements immediately after starting a low A diet in 2019, a journey which has been up and very down at times, like many of us here, but I feel more balanced now, or better able to roll with the lousy days. I am not against CBD oil, I believe it can be therapeutically beneficial if taken every now and then… but not as an every day usage thing. My thoughts about taking anything ‘every day’, unless very temporary, has really shifted, unless it's something that is absolutely necessary.
As for your other question, are there any supplements that I find really helpful right now… I’d say I’ve learned the hard way about the importance of postassium and salt ratios… so I always try to get a lot of potassium, and sometimes magnesium too. Drinking enough water on this diet has also helped me greatlty! I supplement a B-complex (without B6) 3 times a week, and sometimes zinc… I took a lot of zinc last year but these days I mostly monitor symtoms, like dry eyes and dry sinuses which the zinc seems to help. My latest experiment has been with taking more vitamin C through food as I lost a lot of hair on my arms this last year, and I never had hairy arms to begin with. My arm hair has now grown back quite a bit and quickly, which has surprised me… I’m still uncertain about vitamin C and how much is needed at this stage and it's unclear to me if it triggers vitamin A dumping. But if my arm hair is growing it seems like a good thing for now! Supplements scare me though, so I do try to get what I need from food. I’ve also enjoyed medicinal mushrooms, like Reishi, Chaga and Turkey Tail, over the years, but anything that pushes my liver to detox/dump I try to avoid! One thing I loved about taking Reishi was my vivid dreams. I had the best dreams ever when I took Reishi, possibly related to B6? Eventually I will use it again and see how my body reacts. But I'm also not in any rush
I used to love experimenting, but these days I am just grateful to not feel like I am on a boat and having major panic attacks... I still have a bit of daily anxiety. Learning how to breathe properly again has had an amazing impact. So I continue to look forward
Dear @audrey,
Thank you for your answer. You made me think about CBD again. Not that I've done any further research on it, but I simply have stopped taking it for some time after I read your comment. I can't actually say I sleep better or worse without it. What's noticeable, I dream less without CBD. In the first few days of taking CBD, I notice really good dream recall, but I would also feel kind of groggy in the morning. Anyway, I'm already taking a lot of supplements, which makes it hard to pinpoint what is doing what. So I'm totally in line with you to cut them to the essentials, which has been a struggle for me.
Especially sleep is kind of funky sometimes. I suffer from bacterial overgrowth, and it really affects my sleeping pattern. It can happen that I fall asleep just fine, but then wake up after four hours or so, and I'll have such a hard time falling back asleep again. Or it can happen that I turn and turn until I fall asleep. So start to experiment with supplements, take this or that for more deep sleep, which CBD is being recommended for. Or I take some probiotic. Or vitamin D in the morning because it's supposed to enforce circadian rhythm. But then again, I forget that each supplement has side effects too, so I might end up worse than taking fewer. But which?
To increase day-time alertness, I dabble with some nootropics. But then again, they might affect sleep badly. I guess on the contrary, I feel in a rush. I need to fix things now, says my mind and pushes me to take more and more supplements. Recently, I've started to reduce them again. Maybe there is also some psychological component to it that I need to find solutions now and that I don't have the patience to wait it out. Argh. Anyway, it's a long journey ahead of me, and I'll certainly stick with the low vitamin A diet for years to come.
As for medicinal mushrooms, I've had good experiences both with lion's mane and cordyceps. The lion's mane I've also dropped recently, I'll stick with cordyceps for now. I also like pregnenolone a lot and take some DHEA in the morning. Interesting you mention the regrowth of body hair. I've noticed more body hair since doing low vitamin A on my chest. There are some hairs on my arm, but still not like my brother who's a pretty hairy guy in general. Maybe it's related to increased production of androgens. At least I don't look so effeminate anymore, which I like.
Quote from Hermes on October 23, 2021, 12:57 pmQuote from Audrey on October 14, 2021, 8:07 amDear @christian,
The CBD definitely tipped me over the edge in 2016/2017 and was the catalyst for me eventually discovering and starting the low A diet… I had been a regular CBD user for a few years prior and I intuitively believe it made my liver toxic or put me in a detox loop that I had no idea how to get out of... I saw improvements immediately after starting a low A diet in 2019, a journey which has been up and very down at times, like many of us here, but I feel more balanced now, or better able to roll with the lousy days. I am not against CBD oil, I believe it can be therapeutically beneficial if taken every now and then… but not as an every day usage thing. My thoughts about taking anything ‘every day’, unless very temporary, has really shifted, unless it's something that is absolutely necessary.
As for your other question, are there any supplements that I find really helpful right now… I’d say I’ve learned the hard way about the importance of postassium and salt ratios… so I always try to get a lot of potassium, and sometimes magnesium too. Drinking enough water on this diet has also helped me greatlty! I supplement a B-complex (without B6) 3 times a week, and sometimes zinc… I took a lot of zinc last year but these days I mostly monitor symtoms, like dry eyes and dry sinuses which the zinc seems to help. My latest experiment has been with taking more vitamin C through food as I lost a lot of hair on my arms this last year, and I never had hairy arms to begin with. My arm hair has now grown back quite a bit and quickly, which has surprised me… I’m still uncertain about vitamin C and how much is needed at this stage and it's unclear to me if it triggers vitamin A dumping. But if my arm hair is growing it seems like a good thing for now! Supplements scare me though, so I do try to get what I need from food. I’ve also enjoyed medicinal mushrooms, like Reishi, Chaga and Turkey Tail, over the years, but anything that pushes my liver to detox/dump I try to avoid! One thing I loved about taking Reishi was my vivid dreams. I had the best dreams ever when I took Reishi, possibly related to B6? Eventually I will use it again and see how my body reacts. But I'm also not in any rush
Dear @audrey,
Thank you for your answer. You made me think about CBD again. Not that I've done any further research on it, but I simply have stopped taking it for some time after I read your comment. I can't actually say I sleep better or worse without it. What's noticeable, I dream less without CBD. In the first few days of taking CBD, I notice really good dream recall, but I would also feel kind of groggy in the morning. Anyway, I'm already taking a lot of supplements, which makes it hard to pinpoint what is doing what. So I'm totally in line with you to cut them to the essentials, which has been a struggle for me.
Especially sleep is kind of funky sometimes. I suffer from bacterial overgrowth, and it really affects my sleeping pattern. It can happen that I fall asleep just fine, but then wake up after four hours or so, and I'll have such a hard time falling back asleep again. Or it can happen that I turn and turn until I fall asleep. So start to experiment with supplements, take this or that for more deep sleep, which CBD is being recommended for. Or I take some probiotic. Or vitamin D in the morning because it's supposed to enforce circadian rhythm. But then again, I forget that each supplement has side effects too, so I might end up worse than taking fewer. But which?
To increase day-time alertness, I dabble with some nootropics. But then again, they might affect sleep badly. I guess on the contrary, I feel in a rush. I need to fix things now, says my mind and pushes me to take more and more supplements. Recently, I've started to reduce them again. Maybe there is also some psychological component to it that I need to find solutions now and that I don't have the patience to wait it out. Argh. Anyway, it's a long journey ahead of me, and I'll certainly stick with the low vitamin A diet for years to come.
As for medicinal mushrooms, I've had good experiences both with lion's mane and cordyceps. The lion's mane I've also dropped recently, I'll stick with cordyceps for now. I also like pregnenolone a lot and take some DHEA in the morning. Interesting you mention the regrowth of body hair. I've noticed more body hair since doing low vitamin A on my chest. There are some hairs on my arm, but still not like my brother who's a pretty hairy guy in general. Maybe it's related to increased production of androgens. At least I don't look so effeminate anymore, which I like.
Yes, I also have more chest hair. However, I thought it was because of biotin supplements that I had been taking for a while. Hirsutism is a known side effect of biotin supplementation. But if you've noticed it too, it's probably the effect of the diet.
Also, through a lot of experiments on myself, I noticed that aromatase inhibitors, I think, cause the discharge of copper into the bloodstream in copper-toxic people. One day I took a caffeine pill with alpha-tocopherol, and I had a panic attack! And if this diet really slows down the aromatase, we may see an increase in copper toxicity on the diet. For example, gum recession.