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Cacao Butter: Safe to eat?
"Vitamin B6 toxicity" is pyridoxine toxicity which has the effect of inhibiting the enzyme that converts pyridoxine to P5P so although pyridoxine is neuro toxic in itself some of the symptoms are due to vitamin B6 deficiency. If one has poor liver function one is likely to be more susceptible to pyridoxine toxicity and it's possible even a high amount in the diet could be problematic. I don't recommend any supplements but if taking them it's important to be aware about how much pyridoxine and folic acid are in a supplement. Folic acid is best to avoid completely as it doesn't even exist in nature. In fact many synthetic vitamins contain enantiomers and isomers that are not nature identical.
Yes B6 toxicity and a damaged liver would make sense. There is definitely something else going on for B6 toxic people. I think I saw Carolyn Ledowsky talking about this and saying lysine helped but I’d have to check. Detoxing vA or maybe having covid (or both) hasn’t improved my memory!!
Found the interview: https://hto-web-resources.s3.amazonaws.com/2019/anx19/transcripts/Carolyn_Ledowsky.pdf
Quote from tim on October 25, 2021, 8:47 pm"Vitamin B6 toxicity" is pyridoxine toxicity which has the effect of inhibiting the enzyme that converts pyridoxine to P5P so although pyridoxine is neuro toxic in itself some of the symptoms are due to vitamin B6 deficiency. If one has poor liver function one is likely to be more susceptible to pyridoxine toxicity and it's possible even a high amount in the diet could be problematic. I don't recommend any supplements but if taking them it's important to be aware about how much pyridoxine and folic acid are in a supplement. Folic acid is best to avoid completely as it doesn't even exist in nature. In fact many synthetic vitamins contain enantiomers and isomers that are not nature identical.
The toxicity of p5p also exists and it is much more common. If you read the forums, you will find that people have toxicity mainly with p5p. I haven't seen any good review about the p5p supplement yet!
Most supplements containing B6 contain pyridoxine, not P5P. In addition excess pyridoxine creates P5P deficiency in addition to being neurotoxic. If someone takes supplemental megadoses of P5P that can be a problem as all forms of B6 are neurotoxic in excess. If you read forums where people are megadosing with P5P then of course you might assume that's a bigger problem! This study backs up what I said:
Highlights
Pyridoxine is the toxic form of vitamin B6.
Neuronal cells are sensitive to the toxic effects of pyridoxine.
The inactive form PN competitively inhibits the active PLP.
Symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
Abstract
Vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin that functions as a coenzyme in many reactions involved in amino acid, carbohydrates and lipid metabolism. Since 2014, > 50 cases of sensory neuronal pain due to vitamin B6 supplementation were reported. Up to now, the mechanism of this toxicity is enigmatic and the contribution of the various B6 vitamers to this toxicity is largely unknown.
In the present study, the neurotoxicity of the different forms of vitamin B6 is tested on SHSY5Y and CaCo-2 cells. Cells were exposed to pyridoxine, pyridoxamine, pyridoxal, pyridoxal-5-phosphate or pyridoxamine-5-phosphate for 24 h, after which cell viability was measured using the MTT assay. The expression of Bax and caspase-8 was tested after the 24 h exposure. The effect of the vitamers on two pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes was also tested.
Pyridoxine induced cell death in a concentration-dependent way in SHSY5Y cells. The other vitamers did not affect cell viability. Pyridoxine significantly increased the expression of Bax and caspase-8. Moreover, both pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes were inhibited by pyridoxine.
In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5′-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
Quote from tim on October 26, 2021, 8:19 amMost supplements containing B6 contain pyridoxine, not P5P. In addition excess pyridoxine creates P5P deficiency in addition to being neurotoxic. If someone takes supplemental megadoses of P5P that can be a problem as all forms of B6 are neurotoxic in excess. If you read forums where people are megadosing with P5P then of course you might assume that's a bigger problem! This study backs up what I said:
Highlights
Pyridoxine is the toxic form of vitamin B6.
Neuronal cells are sensitive to the toxic effects of pyridoxine.
The inactive form PN competitively inhibits the active PLP.
Symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
Abstract
Vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin that functions as a coenzyme in many reactions involved in amino acid, carbohydrates and lipid metabolism. Since 2014, > 50 cases of sensory neuronal pain due to vitamin B6 supplementation were reported. Up to now, the mechanism of this toxicity is enigmatic and the contribution of the various B6 vitamers to this toxicity is largely unknown.In the present study, the neurotoxicity of the different forms of vitamin B6 is tested on SHSY5Y and CaCo-2 cells. Cells were exposed to pyridoxine, pyridoxamine, pyridoxal, pyridoxal-5-phosphate or pyridoxamine-5-phosphate for 24 h, after which cell viability was measured using the MTT assay. The expression of Bax and caspase-8 was tested after the 24 h exposure. The effect of the vitamers on two pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes was also tested.
Pyridoxine induced cell death in a concentration-dependent way in SHSY5Y cells. The other vitamers did not affect cell viability. Pyridoxine significantly increased the expression of Bax and caspase-8. Moreover, both pyridoxal-5-phosphate dependent enzymes were inhibited by pyridoxine.
In conclusion, the present study indicates that the neuropathy observed after taking a relatively high dose of vitamin B6 supplements is due to pyridoxine. The inactive form pyridoxine competitively inhibits the active pyridoxal-5′-phosphate. Consequently, symptoms of vitamin B6 supplementation are similar to those of vitamin B6 deficiency.
Tim, you should firstly read your research yourself. Look at fig. 2, in SHSY5Y cells, all B6 vitamers caused cell death (compared to the control), although pyridoxine to a greater extent. Where is it in the title?
There is also an interesting link in your research, I have attached it in my message. There are cases of peripheral neuropathy from dosages of B6 1,8; 2; 2,5 mg!
Here's an example of a bad reaction to p5p:
http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/57584-b6-toxicity-from-p-5-p/
Uploaded files:
Quote from tim on October 27, 2021, 6:21 pmAs I said all forms of B6 are toxic in excess. It's not clear what point you are trying to make. I've explained my understanding clearly to you, if you disagree with what I'm saying you'll need to specifically address what you disagree with and why.
I have already written to you my point of view in another thread. I think that the positive effects of poison/vitaminB6 are due to inhibition of conversion to pyridoxal. The research you have provided does not prove your point of view. It trather proves that it is incorrect.
Quote from tim on October 28, 2021, 3:12 amI've clearly explained my reasoning. Again, if you disagree please specifically address what you disagree with and why otherwise you're failing to make any valid point.
"Vitamin B6 toxicity" is pyridoxine toxicity"
As I wrote, pyridoxal and other forms are also neurotoxic. Even Ray Peat says that pyridoxal overdoses are more common. Based on your messages, someone who reads it may conclude that it is possible to avoid toxicity by taking P5P. It's not truth. Most likely, P5P will lead to toxicity faster.
No. I clearly stated in my first post that I don't recommend supplements. Secondly I've pointed out that all forms of B6 in excess are toxic. Thirdly all you are doing is ignoring the points I made in the first and second post and repeatedly claiming I'm wrong without explaining why.