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Can Choline accelerate Vit A Detoxification?
@jessica2
lol You're here because you chose to supplement cod liver oil (assuming that is the cause, which you can't prove because your personal life history has piles of confounding variables, as does mine and everyone else's). The cod liver oil didn't force its way into your body. That was your decision, and apparently a bad one by your own reckoning. And that bad decision was apparently made by way of faulty reasoning. Yet your response to the critical thinking some of us are presenting here is hyperbole and dismissive *yawning*? Interesting choice...particularly since you also can't really prove that you are detoxing. But who needs proof when you have faith that you are detoxing, right?!
@jessica2
I know...I'm probably coming off as overbearing and aggressive...sorry
Just to be clear, I am not deriding you for taking cod liver oil, I did that as well and I partially attribute my problems to doing that.
I also know you're not a dummy because I've seen your thinking on other subjects.
And I know that there are often many different routes to the same goal, and that everybody has their reasons for choosing the path they do. You very well may be successfully healing your problems on your current diet.
My primary concern is with getting the basic facts straight. From there, people can make whatever decisions they want, but if you don't have the facts straight, then you're always more prone to making poor decisions. That's why I keep harping on these indisputable points that support the rationale behind a carnivore diet: plant toxins, digestive anatomy, food availability, energetics, evolutionary principles, etc.
Alright, I'll try to leave it at that and shut up now 🙂
It's a tough one to argue with a smart INTJ.
@christian Our capacity to remove Vitamin A is vastly improved when we get enough choline. Choline is very powerful capable of reversing fatty liver disease despite obstacles. I reckon it's about 5-6 months to get back to choline repletion for some. It's a slow process. I'd recommend the eggs for the sphingomyelin, choline, protein, selenium and folate. Grant's experiment is great because he's proved we dont need much vitamin A at all. But a better way to recover liver health is by increasing choline (and betaine to some extent) and choline tends to be in high protein foods which also help.
@christian where possible I recommend the eggs as the choline AND the sphingomyelin help protect you from the bile salts. I've done the eggs for 7 months so my experience is with the eggs and not with the supplement. If eggs are a problem (sulphur, intolerance) then as last resort I might recommend the lecithin. Eating more beef might be better than the supplement as well. Or even fish eggs, wheat germ or wheat bran are some solutions. A small amount of betaine by diet also saves some choline so that would help checking before supplementing.
Okay, you keep convincing me of the multiple benefits of eggs. The whole vitamin-A-story has me unnecessarily cautious about anything remotely containing retinol.
While I in no way doubt the many benefits of choline, nor do I doubt the many benefits of a healthy person eating eggs produced by a healthy bird on a natural diet, I would offer a warning that this series of threads is starting to sound like the single-minded fanaticism of so many "gurus" out there.
I'm not saying that @andrew-b is simplifying everyone's problems to a single element, I don't think he is, but this appears to be the same kind of rationalization that took Paul Saladino down his path (which includes the promotion of high-vitamin A consumption), along with Morley Robbins and dipSmith. That is to say, when you dig through the dietary literature long enough with sufficient conviction about an idea, you are bound to find things that appear to support your idea, particularly when that idea is reductionist (i.e. focused on one or a few individual elements of a large, complex system). Harry Serpanos is another example on YouTube, where he seems to be convinced that taurine deficiency underlies virtually every problem out there.
Not that this needs mentioning again, but the most obvious commonality between all these beneficial nutrients is that they are found in a bioavailable form in meat. Yes, eggs are higher in some things, and liver is higher in others, and kidney is higher in others, etc., etc., but you are begging to create new imbalances if you try to eat these things out of proportion to their availability in an ancestral environment. What was always abundant in the human diet was skeletal muscle and fat, which is why the most basic beef and water carnivore diet has had so much success. If you have problems digesting meat, then my suggestion is to try to fix that rather than attempt to skirt around the problem by eating other things like eggs that may be easier to digest but which also contain a very different ratio nutrients than meat. That might be a short-term solution, but if you carry on too long without fixing your ability to digest meat, you are setting yourself up for other imbalances.
I'm personally testing out some Phosphatidylcholine from Thorne to see if I can identify any particular effect on my current all-meat diet and will try to post my conclusions when I think I have something confident to say, but so far I have not noticed anything miraculous from it, which has been the story with every other supplement I've tried.