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Detox symptoms
I am curious to hear about other's experiences with detox symptoms.
When I had them, it started as itchiness and a rash by my lymph nodes. Additionally, I had cranial pressure, dilated pupils, and poor circulation. I had mild insomnia at one point as well.
I currently don't know if I subscribe to the detox symptoms, because I was able to control them by being regular(ie avoiding constipation), limiting coffee intake at times, avoiding most fruits, and eating less in general. I eventually stopped having detox symptoms. There may be something else going on as well, as the body re-regulates its use of Vitamin A when the diet is deficient.
I’ve spent a lot of time working in the medical field which doesn’t believe in detox (except from drugs or alcohol) but after it happens to you it definitely seems real.
Low VA kept my detox symptoms sort of in check, nothing to severe.
I find now that I am as close to zero intake of VA I can get the detox is more pronounced; headaches, bloodshot eyes, oily skin, night wakings, itchy skin, flaking skin, etc.
Hi Orion,
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I’m looking for clues as to why some people are experiencing the detox symptoms, whereas, some others don’t.
Are you:
Eating rice?
Eating red meat?
Supplementing with:
Zinc?
Vitamin C?
Vitamin E?
Does anyone else have ideas on other possible factors?
Thanks a lot.
Grant
Quote from ggenereux on April 10, 2019, 12:03 pmHi Orion,
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I’m looking for clues as to why some people are experiencing the detox symptoms, whereas, some others don’t.
Are you:
Eating rice?
Eating red meat?
Supplementing with:
Zinc?
Vitamin C?
Vitamin E?
Does anyone else have ideas on other possible factors?
Thanks a lot.
Grant
Hi Grant,
Yes white rice and lean beef for 3 meals a day. Some apple juice and lemonade.
I do use 12.5mg Zn, 400IU vitE every other day.
I take 500mg sodium ascorbate and 500mg ascorbic acid every day with KCl and MgCl.
But with my past isotretinoin and retinyl palmitate use, I might be a weird case.
Hey @orion, does it last longer than a few days? Do the symptoms come and go?
@Bella - Detox happens to some degree, but it might have something to do with histamine response, as the symptoms seem to be related to allergies as well. Things like Vitamin C and B6 lower histamine, which should give a better clue as to what is going on. When no Vitamin A is consumed, there is an increase response to histamine. Synthetic retinol has been shown to decrease histamine. I think it might take time for the body to adapt to the release of histamine. When one is eating some Vitamin A, the first cells that are exposed to the vitamin A are in the digestive system, which means lower histamine response to food. When one is not eating any Vitamin A, these cells are more venerable until the body adapts and starts providing the cells in the digestive system with Vitamin A.
The trick to avoid the detox symptoms would be finding ways to reduce the histamine response. That is why foods like rice and beef are helpful, because the nutrients(zinc, b12) and relatively low allergenic nature reduce histamine. Personally, when I had detox symptoms, I had to limit coffee, chocolate, sodas, fermented vegetables, most fruits(especially apples). After the symptoms went away, I could eat a wider variety of foods.
EDIT: Maybe small amounts of butter before a meal(like a pat of of butter on bread or rice) could help? Theoretically, the intestines should be the first to utilize the Vitamin A in butter.
Processing of vitamin A and E in the human gastrointestinal tract.
Abstract
We aimed to provide basic data on the processing of vitamin A and E in the human gastrointestinal tract and to assess whether the size of emulsion fat globules affects the bioavailability of these vitamins. Eight healthy men received intragastrically two lipid formulas differing in their fat-globule median diameter (0.7 vs. 10. 1 microm. Formulas provided 28 mg vitamin A as retinyl palmitate and 440 mg vitamin E as all-rac alpha-tocopherol. Vitamins were measured in gastric and duodenal aspirates, as well as in chylomicrons, during the postprandial period. The gastric emptying rate of lipids and vitamin A and E was similar. The free retinol/total vitamin A ratio was not significantly modified in the stomach, whereas it was dramatically increased in the duodenum. The proportion of ingested lipid and vitamins was very similar in the duodenal content. The chylomicron response of lipids and vitamins was not significantly different between the two emulsions. Our main conclusions are as follows: 1) there is no significant metabolism of vitamin A and E in the human stomach, 2) the enzyme(s) present in the duodenal lumen is significantly involved in the hydrolysis of retinyl esters, and 3) the size of emulsion fat globules has no major effect on the overall absorption of vitamin A and E.
Ghee is much better than butter
Quote from YH on April 10, 2019, 1:20 pmHey @orion, does it last longer than a few days? Do the symptoms come and go?
@Bella - Detox happens to some degree, but it might have something to do with histamine response, as the symptoms seem to be related to allergies as well. Things like Vitamin C and B6 lower histamine, which should give a better clue as to what is going on. When no Vitamin A is consumed, there is an increase response to histamine. Synthetic retinol has been shown to decrease histamine. I think it might take time for the body to adapt to the release of histamine. When one is eating some Vitamin A, the first cells that are exposed to the vitamin A are in the digestive system, which means lower histamine response to food. When one is not eating any Vitamin A, these cells are more venerable until the body adapts and starts providing the cells in the digestive system with Vitamin A.
The trick to avoid the detox symptoms would be finding ways to reduce the histamine response. That is why foods like rice and beef are helpful, because the nutrients(zinc, b12) and relatively low allergenic nature reduce histamine. Personally, when I had detox symptoms, I had to limit coffee, chocolate, sodas, fermented vegetables, most fruits(especially apples). After the symptoms went away, I could eat a wider variety of foods.
EDIT: Maybe small amounts of butter before a meal(like a pat of of butter on bread or rice) could help? Theoretically, the intestines should be the first to utilize the Vitamin A in butter.
Processing of vitamin A and E in the human gastrointestinal tract.
Abstract
We aimed to provide basic data on the processing of vitamin A and E in the human gastrointestinal tract and to assess whether the size of emulsion fat globules affects the bioavailability of these vitamins. Eight healthy men received intragastrically two lipid formulas differing in their fat-globule median diameter (0.7 vs. 10. 1 microm. Formulas provided 28 mg vitamin A as retinyl palmitate and 440 mg vitamin E as all-rac alpha-tocopherol. Vitamins were measured in gastric and duodenal aspirates, as well as in chylomicrons, during the postprandial period. The gastric emptying rate of lipids and vitamin A and E was similar. The free retinol/total vitamin A ratio was not significantly modified in the stomach, whereas it was dramatically increased in the duodenum. The proportion of ingested lipid and vitamins was very similar in the duodenal content. The chylomicron response of lipids and vitamins was not significantly different between the two emulsions. Our main conclusions are as follows: 1) there is no significant metabolism of vitamin A and E in the human stomach, 2) the enzyme(s) present in the duodenal lumen is significantly involved in the hydrolysis of retinyl esters, and 3) the size of emulsion fat globules has no major effect on the overall absorption of vitamin A and E.
Thanks @YH, that’s interesting about histamine. I can tell when I’m experiencing a histamine reaction from the redness of my chest which I’ve never thought of as a detox symptom. The strange thing about what I think of as a detox symptom is mucus membrane irritation and swelling. I don’t even know if it’s actually detox. I don’t have any other symptoms anymore besides those. I may try out ghee again as @thatgutwitjtjeneck mentioned.
Interesting link to histamine. I've actually been implementing a low histamine diet recently with higher carotenoids intake and I seem to see some benefits.
I'm waiting some more time before reporting anything though to be sure.
I had good results on low A at the beginning, but it has stalled in the last few months. I'm thinking I've already removed my carotene/A toxicity since I never had a long history of high intake of either, but did have a recent stint of high carotene.
I've already deemed baked goods as mild triggers and many colored veggies are high in histamine, so someone implementing a low A diet could unintentionnally end up on a low histamine diet.