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Does sugar increase your symptoms?
Science says it does.
Hyperglycaemia potentiates the teratogenicity of retinoic acid in diabetic pregnancy in mice
Abstract
Aims/hypothesis
We recently showed in mice that maternal diabetes increases embryonic susceptibility to caudal regression induced by vitamin A metabolite retinoic acid. Here we tested whether in the maternal diabetic milieu hyperglycaemia is the critical factor responsible for mediating this increased susceptibility.
Methods
Non-diabetic pregnant mice were made hyperglycaemic by subcutaneous injections of glucose at regular intervals. Conversely, diabetic pregnant mice were treated with phlorizin to induce renal glucosuria and thus reduce blood glucose concentrations. Pregnant mice were treated with retinoic acid and the extent of caudal regression in mouse embryos, measured in terms of the ratio of tail length to crown–rump length was assessed. Embryos were also examined for Wnt-3a expression and cell death.
Results
Embryos of mice treated with glucose had a greater extent of caudal regression induced by retinoic acid than saline-treated controls, with enhanced down-regulation of Wnt-3a expression and exacerbated cell death specifically at the caudal end of the embryo. Embryos of diabetic mice treated with phlorizin had a similar extent of caudal regression to embryos of non-diabetic mice after treatment with retinoic acid.
Conclusions/interpretation
Hyperglycaemia increases embryonic susceptibility to caudal regression induced by retinoic acid, with the underlying cellular and molecular changes closely mimicking those that occur in maternal diabetes. Reduction of blood glucose concentrations in diabetic mice completely abolishes this increased susceptibility to retinoic acid. These results suggest that in maternal diabetes hyperglycaemia is the critical factor responsible for potentiating the teratogenic effect of retinoic acid.
Infants of mothers with diabetes mellitus are more prone to congenital malformation than those of non-diabetic pregnancies [1, 2]. As most malformations in infants of diabetic mothers are due to developmental errors at a very early stage of pregnancy [3], a better understanding of the risk factors that predispose these embryos to malformation could lead to better preconceptional care to prevent anomalies.
Although it is evident that diabetic embryopathy results from multifactorial interactions [4], few investigations of the association between diabetic embryopathy and other factors like food or drugs taken during pregnancy have been undertaken. Using the mouse as a model, we recently reported that embryos of diabetic mothers are more susceptible to the teratogenic effect of retinoic acid, the bioactive metabolite of vitamin A, in developing caudal regression [5]. The increased severity of caudal regression in embryos of diabetic mice after retinoic acid treatment was associated with enhanced down-regulation of Wnt-3a, a gene that is indispensable for the development of the caudal embryonic region, and exacerbated cell death specifically in the tail bud. However, it is not clear which factor or factors in the maternal diabetic milieu are responsible for the teratogenic interaction with retinoic acid.
In humans, effective glycaemic control during preconception and early gestation has generally led to a lower frequency of malformations [6, 7, 8]. Moreover, increased glucose concentrations in vivo and in vitro culture in excess glucose have been shown to be teratogenic in animal studies [9, 10, 11]. The purpose of our study, therefore, was to specifically test whether hyperglycaemia is the critical factor that increases embryonic susceptibility to caudal regression induced by retinoic acid.
ridiculous methodology
Hi @are,
Sorry for not being clearer about what I was stating.
I wasn't being critical at all of the study Tim shared. I agree with their conclusion, and I think it is an important study. I actually thought that it helps explain why the carnivore diet community reports such a high rate of success. I also thought that their results now show us that the effect is bi-directional. Too much sugar makes RA more toxic, and we know that too much RA makes sugar more toxic. It, at least indirectly, links these two factors as acting together. Lastly, I thought that we need to ask about sugar consumption on the upcoming survey. And, is rice acting similarly to sugar?
So, my comment was specifically regarding François Magendie's sugar-water only diet used in dogs during the 1800's. It is claimed that his study supports of the vA deficiency theory. But, it was probably not that at all. Rather the sugar-water only diet probably made their liver stored vitamin A more toxic. So, in a way François Magendie's sugar-water only diet was an early version this 2004 study that Tim shared.
I hope that clarifies it.
Thanks
I wonder what this could mean to the frutarian poster who visited a few weeks ago?
There were several things that didn't make too much sense to me as a WAPF'er. One of them was the unhealth of the icecream makers Ben and Jerry. I mean, their ice cream seems to be made of pretty good cream, so wouldn't that be almost a health food?
I still don't know what to make of the fact that bees and hummingbirds and people in comas take in a bunch of sugar.
Conclusion: while detoxing from vitamin A it is wise to avoid sugar. Karen Hurd also says avoid sugar in her bile detox protocols. It’s helpful to know the science behind this to keep strong willed. However, I’ve found the less I eat sugar the less I want to eat it (an occasional ice cream in seaside Fowey is the exception!!).
I'm not in favour of low carb or sugar avoidance. I just see this study as more evidence of harm from excess retinoic acid. A lot of the claims made for the evils of sugar could be because of retinoic acid.
Im thinking that insulin may play a key role in how hyperglycaemia makes retinoic acid more harmful? Perhaps this study will help elucidate more connections between retinoic acid and diabetes?
After a meal rich in vitamin A and glucose both retinoic acid and glucose levels remain elevated for hours afterward. Perhaps this combination is much more harmful than a low carb meal rich in vitamin A or a high carb meal low in vitamin A. Think about hunter gatherer type people that feast on liver like the Inuit, they don't have the problem of excess blood glucose. Diabetes seems to afflict nations that have both plenty of vitamin A AND glucose.
It reminds me of the writings of Jan Kwasniewski who wrote Optimal Nutrition.This polish doctor believed that a mixed affluent type diet "piggish eating" was the worst and that a high carb low fat type diet "pasture eating" (usually low vA in the countries where this type of eating is common) produced less disease although still far more than a low carb high fat diet like he promoted. I don't agree with his diet but I find the "piggish eating" vs "pasture eating" observation interesting. He thinks it's rubbish that it's the fat intake itself that is harmful but that it's the combination of fat and glucose. He may have got it half right...
Hi @tim-2,
Thanks, I was just thinking more about this. I did experiment with sugar (primarily testing it for fat gain), by eating a ridiculous amount (~ 150+ g/day) for several weeks. I did not seen any adverse reaction, and this was quite early in my diet too. It did not cause any flare-ups. Maybe I didn't test long enough? And, since then I've been pretty much at zero sugar consumption too.
Of course, that's a not very meaningful n=1. So, I can't draw any conclusion from that.
I agree, the combo of vA+sugar is probably the biggest driver of diabetes. It's so tragic that vA has been added to sugar in some countries.
For me, sugar consumption improves almost everything (poor appetite, insomnia, fatigue). I’ve only met one other person doing the detox for whom this is the case. My guess is that it isn’t the sugar itself that is so helpful, but rather the increase in overall calories it seems to enable when the appetite wanes.
Still, my positive response to it confuses me a bit, because I also respond dramatically to high-dose thiamine, and refined carbs are supposed to make thiamine-deficient people worse... Although, perhaps I am not particularly deficient in thiamine (I do not have diabetes), but rather there may be something wrong with the delivery or utilization of thiamine in my CFS/ME brain.
@jaj An individual I spoke with in the Facebook group noticed that some people seem to get a bit “stuck” on Hurd’s plans, and wondered if it was because Karen is so rigidly against refined foods. I personally would loose my appetite from all the veggies she suggests. 😝 But I think the person I was speaking with made a good point—some people, for whatever reason, seem too do better with an abundance of carbs. Not sure why, because some do so well on low-carb.
“Using the mouse as a model, we recently reported that embryos of diabetic mothers are more susceptible to the teratogenic effect of retinoic acid, the bioactive metabolite of vitamin A, in developing caudal regression [5]. The increased severity of caudal regression in embryos of diabetic mice after retinoic acid treatment was associated with enhanced down-regulation of Wnt-3a, a gene that is indispensable for the development of the caudal embryonic region, and exacerbated cell death specifically in the tail bud. However, it is not clear which factor or factors in the maternal diabetic milieu are responsible for the teratogenic interaction with retinoic acid.“
This part is interesting, since human diabetic mothers’ babies are at increased risk of birth defects, too.
My mother wasn’t diabetic, but she fastidiously followed a healthy pregnancy diet with lots of fruits and vegetables when she was pregnant with me. I have a congenital heart defect. My younger siblings did not receive a “healthy pregnancy diet” in the womb, and both of them are healthier than me and neither had birth defects. 😝
Quote from puddleduck on September 7, 2020, 7:08 amFor me, sugar consumption improves almost everything (poor appetite, insomnia, fatigue). I’ve only met one other person doing the detox for whom this is the case. My guess is that it isn’t the sugar itself that is so helpful, but rather the increase in overall calories it seems to enable when the appetite wanes.
Still, my positive response to it confuses me a bit, because I also respond dramatically to high-dose thiamine, and refined carbs are supposed to make thiamine-deficient people worse... Although, perhaps I am not particularly deficient in thiamine (I do not have diabetes), but rather there may be something wrong with the delivery or utilization of thiamine in my CFS/ME brain.
@jaj An individual I spoke with in the Facebook group noticed that some people seem to get a bit “stuck” on Hurd’s plans, and wondered if it was because Karen is so rigidly against refined foods. I personally would loose my appetite from all the veggies she suggests.
But I think the person I was speaking with made a good point—some people, for whatever reason, seem too do better with an abundance of carbs. Not sure why, because some do so well on low-carb.
“Using the mouse as a model, we recently reported that embryos of diabetic mothers are more susceptible to the teratogenic effect of retinoic acid, the bioactive metabolite of vitamin A, in developing caudal regression [5]. The increased severity of caudal regression in embryos of diabetic mice after retinoic acid treatment was associated with enhanced down-regulation of Wnt-3a, a gene that is indispensable for the development of the caudal embryonic region, and exacerbated cell death specifically in the tail bud. However, it is not clear which factor or factors in the maternal diabetic milieu are responsible for the teratogenic interaction with retinoic acid.“
This part is interesting, since human diabetic mothers’ babies are at increased risk of birth defects, too.
My mother wasn’t diabetic, but she fastidiously followed a healthy pregnancy diet with lots of fruits and vegetables when she was pregnant with me. I have a congenital heart defect. My younger siblings did not receive a “healthy pregnancy diet” in the womb, and both of them are healthier than me and neither had birth defects.
It could be that sugar itself isn't the issue, but that your body has to bathe in the sugar (e.g. hyperglycemia). so if your body can't handle/process the sugar, then you will have issues, but if you can process the sugar, there's no issue.
Also pregnant women are poisoning themselves with prenatals, almost all which have vitamin A. I have found 1 prenatal from ritual that doesn't have vitamin A. Vitamin A-less prenatals/multivitamins are extremely rare.