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Dry eye and DHA
Hi guys,
I have dry eye but the severity of it fluctuates a lot. Today is the worse and I am barely able to write those words on the screen. Other days it's much better and it doesn't bother me so much.
My condition has probably been caused by accutane use in the past. I also know that it largely depend on the air humidity and by my sleep quality.
I want to take taurine and some fatty acids because they might improve eye health.
Do you know if this supplement from thorne contains vtamin A or not?
https://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Research-Concentrated-Supplement-Certified/dp/B0018CJ17W
Thorne Research, Super EPA, EPA & DHA, 90 Gelcaps
Thank you
In my "n=1" experience, taking omega 3 is the worst thing you can do for your health. I believe that it is harmful.
Hi @mattia,
I recently had an update from someone who was experiencing significant night blindness/dark adaptation issues and eye dryness. He believes that his condition was probably due to taking too much zinc and taurine. I think that probably resulted in mobilizing too much vA out of the liver too quickly.
His night blindness/dark adaptation issues and eye dryness resolved quickly after stopping the zinc & taurine supplements.
What about just using lubricating eye drops to help until the condition resolves?
Quote from ggenereux on December 8, 2021, 6:03 amHi @mattia,
I recently had an update from someone who was experiencing significant night blindness/dark adaptation issues and eye dryness. He believes that his condition was probably due to taking too much zinc and taurine. I think that probably resulted in mobilizing too much vA out of the liver too quickly.
His night blindness/dark adaptation issues and eye dryness resolved quickly after stopping the zinc & taurine supplements.
What about just using lubricating eye drops to help until the condition resolves?
Is it possible to find out specifically if these were zinc or taurine supplements? Many zinc supplements contain a lot of cadmium (they are difficult to separate from each other). This could be a problem. I have also seen some studies in which zinc supplementation reduced plasma zinc levels.
That’s me that Grant is speaking about. Been on the low VA diet for 3 years 3 months now. History of severe dry eye (had to wear goggles 24/7 or put drops in my eyes every 10-15 minutes).
I think it’s specifically the zinc that mobilized VA from the liver. Zinc seems to be a tricky one, you need it to mobilize some VA so you don’t accumulate it, but excess zinc causes too much mobilization.
Taurine on the other hand is my antidote for both VA and zinc excess. While I was taking my zinc supplement religiously, I tried to taper off taurine and ended up with significant night blindness and dark adaptation issues. I was having night blindness when in low light… parts of my visual field was absent, black holes of nothing. After some thought and chatting with other people I decided to cut out zinc.
After I cut out zinc for a month, I started tapering taurine. I’ve been off taurine for a week now and have zero night blindness and dark adaptation issues.
I definitely think night blindness and dark adaptation issues is caused by VA toxicity and not VA deficiency. As we learned from multiple patients, those who are the sickest usually have low serum VA before starting the low VA diet… and after they start, their serum VA shoots up. Whether it is the body adjusting serum retinol down because there is too much retinyl ester spillover from the liver or a feedback mechanism that the body can’t process VA well anymore, i don’t know. As for people having night blindness and high dose VA “cures” it? That’s where I feel will be the sticking point for a lot of people before they believe VA is a not essential. Introducing high dose VA just puts your body into liver storage mode and takes away VA tox symptoms for awhile. VA is just so counterintuitive.
I would give taurine a shot. Seems like some people react to taurine negatively for some reason, but for me, it helped decrease all my VA toxicity symptoms. It was easy to know when to decrease taurine for me while off of zinc; it caused dry mouth, which was not a Va toxicity symptom for me. So as soon as my mouth started getting dry, i knew it was time to cut my dose. I never experienced taurine mouth dryness the 2+ years I was taking it (prior to cutting out zinc). My taurine dose ranged from 500mg-1000mg twice a day. I also did find that taurine only helps me for about 4-6 hours after taking while I was off of the zinc, so I was taking it 3x a day during that time instead of my usual 2x a day.
My last serum retinol level was 7.7 mcg/dl, so i’m almost depleted.
As for the cadmium, i don’t think that was an issue for me. my hair test showed 0 cadmium.
edit: forgot to add.. it seems like the lower your total body stores of VA, the less supplementation you need. I’m only on probiotics (1-2x a week) and intermittent topical mag. Also intermittent sun/UVB if that counts. That’s it! I used to be on a crap load of things.
Quote from Ourania on December 8, 2021, 8:00 amThanks for this @pano200. How are your eyes now?
My eye dryness is reduced a lot. I’ve been only using drops 1-3x a day the last few months and goggles at night only. Last night was my first night in awhile I was able to sleep without goggles. I was able to do this for a few months while on the low VA diet, but dryness started to get worse, probably from the excess zinc.
So tbh, the next 3-12 months is when I hope my eye dryness resolves completely.
Quote from ggenereux on December 8, 2021, 6:03 amHi @mattia,
I recently had an update from someone who was experiencing significant night blindness/dark adaptation issues and eye dryness. He believes that his condition was probably due to taking too much zinc and taurine. I think that probably resulted in mobilizing too much vA out of the liver too quickly.
His night blindness/dark adaptation issues and eye dryness resolved quickly after stopping the zinc & taurine supplements.
What about just using lubricating eye drops to help until the condition resolves?
Hi @ggenereux2014, I also think that those extreme dry eye episodes are related to a detox crisis. I always have red eyes, but usually they don't bother me so much. There are a few days each month instead where I am almost not able to keep my eyes open in front of a computer screen.
I have tried using eye drops but I haven't experienced any benefits from them.
Quote from pano200 on December 8, 2021, 7:37 amThat’s me that Grant is speaking about. Been on the low VA diet for 3 years 3 months now. History of severe dry eye (had to wear goggles 24/7 or put drops in my eyes every 10-15 minutes).
I think it’s specifically the zinc that mobilized VA from the liver. Zinc seems to be a tricky one, you need it to mobilize some VA so you don’t accumulate it, but excess zinc causes too much mobilization.
Taurine on the other hand is my antidote for both VA and zinc excess. While I was taking my zinc supplement religiously, I tried to taper off taurine and ended up with significant night blindness and dark adaptation issues. I was having night blindness when in low light… parts of my visual field was absent, black holes of nothing. After some thought and chatting with other people I decided to cut out zinc.
After I cut out zinc for a month, I started tapering taurine. I’ve been off taurine for a week now and have zero night blindness and dark adaptation issues.
I definitely think night blindness and dark adaptation issues is caused by VA toxicity and not VA deficiency. As we learned from multiple patients, those who are the sickest usually have low serum VA before starting the low VA diet… and after they start, their serum VA shoots up. Whether it is the body adjusting serum retinol down because there is too much retinyl ester spillover from the liver or a feedback mechanism that the body can’t process VA well anymore, i don’t know. As for people having night blindness and high dose VA “cures” it? That’s where I feel will be the sticking point for a lot of people before they believe VA is a not essential. Introducing high dose VA just puts your body into liver storage mode and takes away VA tox symptoms for awhile. VA is just so counterintuitive.
I would give taurine a shot. Seems like some people react to taurine negatively for some reason, but for me, it helped decrease all my VA toxicity symptoms. It was easy to know when to decrease taurine for me while off of zinc; it caused dry mouth, which was not a Va toxicity symptom for me. So as soon as my mouth started getting dry, i knew it was time to cut my dose. I never experienced taurine mouth dryness the 2+ years I was taking it (prior to cutting out zinc). My taurine dose ranged from 500mg-1000mg twice a day. I also did find that taurine only helps me for about 4-6 hours after taking while I was off of the zinc, so I was taking it 3x a day during that time instead of my usual 2x a day.
My last serum retinol level was 7.7 mcg/dl, so i’m almost depleted.
As for the cadmium, i don’t think that was an issue for me. my hair test showed 0 cadmium.
Hi @pano200, thank you for detailing your experience. I will try taking a taurine supplement then and see if I experience any benefits.
What do you mean by "had to wear goggles 24/7" and "goggles at night only" ?
I have read that for many peoples the main cause of dry eye is the incomplete closing of the eyelid at night (Lagophthalmos). While we sleep, the eye may remain slightly open and the eye fluids can thus escape, leaving the eye dry. So one of the solution that I might try is using an eye mask to incentive the closure of the eye lids.
I wore lab goggles during the day and swim goggles at night. It was too annoying to put drops in every 10-15 minutes so goggles were the only sane solution.
Tagging @are Arena. The thread/comments might be helpful.