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Extinguishing the theory of Vitamin-A toxicity in the west - Depletion of retinol levels as an immune response in infectious diseases and vaccination
Weston Price looked at healthy native people and found that they had high vitamin A intake. So he thought high vitamin A intake must be the cause of the health.
WAPF-ers (Weston A. Price followers) took on the high vitamin A advice and it ended up badly for some. (of course, many will never face the music on this, because they are holding too hard to theory and keeping blinders on about real life)
There was a huge debacle at the WAPF about how cod liver oil was making WAPF-ers sicker, not well, and even the naturopaths were dying off. Some of the sick blamed the rancidity, (and rancidity IS a problem) but Grant has shown us it was also the VA content. The WAPF was torn in half by the cod liver oil debacle.
Just getting off the rancid cod liver oil did not fix my issues. I had to cut back on VA.
WAPF'ers are mostly all anti-vaxers, btw.
Same @lil chick
I’m in my second month of detox and the main culprit (in my opinion) was the high quality cod liver oil I was taking daily. It says 1 tsp (1100 mcg) is the daily dose and I was taking that. That is supposed to be a safe amount and only 122% of RDA, but for vA I think even 100% is set too high. I was combining that with a greens powder that had 1 g (90%) of vA as beta carotene (not sure what the other 10% was since it was supposedly vegan), canned mackerel and sardines several times weekly (also high in preformed vA), and fresh squeezed beet, orange, and carrot juice weekly (loaded with beta carotene). So, a bunch of preformed vA + a boatload of beta carotene. This went on for at least a year. And that was just my documented stuff for that year. I know I ate boatloads of sweet potatoes, greens, veggies, dried anpricots, and other high vA foods.
I was literally poisoning myself without knowing it.
Now almost 2 months since stopping high vA foods, I’m feeling better. Extremely-cautiously better.
I’m by no means cured. I still have bad days … and very bad days, but at least I am not adding fuel to the fire, and my labs at least, and my body seem to be trending in the right direction.
I think some folks won’t ever get vA toxicity and good for them. They will never experience this particular hell, but when they do it’s like it goes from zero (feeling great), to 1,000 (and feeling like literal death) … at times I through I was dying.
Anyhow, there’s no convincing some people and they will have to experience it themselves because they sadly won’t listen.
@bruce @lil-chicklil-chick
Its been a few years since I read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, but I don't recall any of the tribes diets being that egregiously high in vitamin A, at least not how the modern day WAP group portrays it. Overall their lifestyle and access to food would have kept their intake levels within manageable amounts. Not being riddled with vaccines definitely helped as well, something Grant mentioned in his book. I believe this woman was active on the blog a number of years ago, but her articles gave an interesting perspective on the WAP paradox in relation to vitamin A. https://www.carbwarscookbooks.com/eureka-part-2/
As for the current WAP group, I personally ruined my health following their guidelines. From 2020 to 2024 my diet revolved around local/organic meat, organs(mainly liver/kidney), raw dairy and cod liver oil. I was working with a practitioner the first two years so this was advice given to me by a certified WAP/GAPs practitioner. My original autoimmune skin condition got significantly worse and I developed multiple other health issue as well. Overall I think this group completely missed the mark on what made those tribes healthy and refuse to admit their advice is not applicable to over fortified and vaccinated western populations suffering from chronic disease.
Those Ticking Time Bombs Going Off Are WAPF People Dying Too Young
And Bruce it sounds like you are making fairly quick progress. My first two years were brutal, but thankfully things have started to slowly improve at the start of my third year. Considering I was on accutane and spent four years eating copious amounts of beef liver and cod liver oil I'm guessing I have another 1-2 years before my skin fully heals. Wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy
Hi @griffin
Thanks for the articles. Quite interesting read.
I’m only familiar with WAP diet as it related to Vitamin K2, not Vitamin A, but yes … good food for thought.
Thanks for the well-wishes, but it feels sometimes like I take 1 steps forward and 3 steps back. Today was one of those days. I sometimes wonder if the low vA diet is making my liver and tissues dump vA too fast.
I know fiber is a controversial issue here, but I feel that when I take psyllium, I get this toxin out of my system faster, and I feel better. Note: I don’t have a gallbladder so this could be why? As I understand, those of us without gallbladders have a constant trickle of bile. Maybe getting it out faster (instead of recycling it) is the reason it feels better out than in?
What were your main health issues that brought to you trying low A ? In my first year I was able to completely heal my migraines, dry flaking scalp and bloody noses. In the second year my IBS and insomnia improved 50-70%. However these were all health issues I developed after adopting a high vitamin A diet while on GAPs/WAP from 2020-2024. My original issue that I have been struggling with for the last 15 years has been severe cystic acne. In some respects this actually got worse my first two years on the diet. Definitely felt like 3 steps forward 2 steps back. Since I've started my third year this past spring the severity of skin flare ups has started to go down a lot, but I am still getting frequent breakouts on face, scalp and legs. My skin feels like its starting to produce a lot more oil now, so I am assuming these are contributing to breakouts. My logical guess is my skin is still trying to purge decades worth of fortified foods, accutane, and liver/CLO which is increasing unbound circulating retinyl esters. Its reassuring that my oil glands may be finally recovering, but I have read that some of accutanes damage is permanent so its possible I'll have to deal with bad skin for the remainder of my younger years(currently 31).
As for fiber I'd say just listen to your body. If you feel better eating certain types of foods roll with it and adjust if needed. I've mainly landed on meat with a few servings of fruit most days and some occasional white rice. My digestion was wrecked after accutane so the higher fiber foods don't work as well for myself. Some people have done well with the higher fiber approach and others not so much. As you have probably seen on this forum people follow all types of diets, not all of which are strict low vitamin A.
What symptoms don’t I have is probably a better question. 🙂
My most pressing issues are:
- Bone and joint pain
- overall feeling of malaise
- High blood pressure (that finally seems to be normalizing with my meds … before, it was not)
- Unusual blurred vision
- Peeling hands and feet (resolved prior to starting low vA)
- There are others but who knows if it’s even related to vA 🤷🏾♂️
As I mentioned, I’m not sure I qualify for claiming a low vA diet banner as my previous 2 month intake equates to approximately 112 mcg of vA (but it can range as low as 50 mcg daily to a high of 400 mcg daily … those high-mcg days are usually from cheese which I have a hard time resisting for long). But according to Cronometer, that’s my 2 month average, so it’s quite a bit lower than prior to starting this where it was routinely over 1600/1700 per day (most of that from CLO) … again, not super-high intake, but constant and from preformed retinol sources.
It sounds like you have lowered your intake a fair amount though. Personally I think everyone would benefit from keeping daily intake below the 900 mcg RDA, but it seems like the healthier your liver is the more you will be able to metabolize and eliminate. It’s possible you will be able to make progress while still consuming some diary. I know some people have benefited from the additional calcium dairy provides so that may be worth considering.
I have been using egg shell powder to get a little more calcium into diet without any additional vitamin A. I'm not overly concerned with hitting RDA, as I think most of them are wrong anyways. If I can ever heal my skin I definitely plan on trying to add back in moderate amounts of cheese, but for now diary is off the menu.
Hi Griffin, have you ever tried the red light therapy on your skin? I haven't. But my daughter swears that it helps her skin, and I think Ourania likes it too.
I do try to get a little sunlight.