I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
First 5 months
Quote from Orion on April 12, 2021, 6:56 amI stopped taking the topical B12 oil recently after about one week experimenting with it, it does contain methylB12. Taking it while potentially having issues with folate and methylation listed above, makes sense it would maybe cause things to go wrong.
After about a week, my skin was doing good, but then flaring up with breakouts. I do better without for now.
Thank you for the feedback I was wondering if it would be worth a try to supplement B12, I will try adjusting diet first.
I think frequent/regular supplementation can easily create new imbalances, especially since they are highly isolated molecules.
Sticking with whole foods that contain many cofactors is better overall for the body. I think sporadic supplementation could be beneficial to help tip the body in a better direction, but using them too frequently just creates a new deficiency by using up more resources.
Hi @sonia A couple of things I’ve come across in my reading that may be relevant for you. In Neil Nathan’s ‘Toxic’ book he says:
‘In my experience, approximately half of sensitive patients, if given vitamin B12 or folate (usually in the form of 5-MTHF), experience an intense worsening of their symptoms—even when given minuscule doses. I would like to emphasize that in our study of thirty patients, supplementing with only 200 micrograms of 5-MTHF improved every patient’s ability to methylate. Some practitioners are recommending massive dosages of folate with the idea that if some is good, more is better. This is rarely true. In my practice, in fact, the opposite is far more common.’
In the same book he talks about epigenetic porphyria. I’ve now got very interested in this as it relates to pyroluria which I know I have (mild/mod). Basically 20% of the population can be prone to this and it can be induced by many things including toxicities and supplementation. I’ve been listening to Stephen Rochlitz, Beth O’Hara and Neil Nathan. It results in a lack of heme and a toxicity of accumulated porphyrin. This has vast consequences on the ability of the body to detoxify. I’m just wondering if vA toxicity can induce porphyria in some (20%) people or maybe having this genetic tendency makes you more susceptible to vA toxicity. Stephen Rochlitz says it’s why people get worse on supplements. All fascinating stuff. I’ve sent off for his book. I’ve long wondered whether heme is a problem for me so this fits. Heme is needed for the CBS enzyme, all the CYP450s and many others. Just another rabbit hole I’ve been down.
https://www.betterhealthguy.com/episode101
Quote from Jenny on April 12, 2021, 8:19 amHi @sonia A couple of things I’ve come across in my reading that may be relevant for you. In Neil Nathan’s ‘Toxic’ book he says:
‘In my experience, approximately half of sensitive patients, if given vitamin B12 or folate (usually in the form of 5-MTHF), experience an intense worsening of their symptoms—even when given minuscule doses. I would like to emphasize that in our study of thirty patients, supplementing with only 200 micrograms of 5-MTHF improved every patient’s ability to methylate. Some practitioners are recommending massive dosages of folate with the idea that if some is good, more is better. This is rarely true. In my practice, in fact, the opposite is far more common.’
In the same book he talks about epigenetic porphyria. I’ve now got very interested in this as it relates to pyroluria which I know I have (mild/mod). Basically 20% of the population can be prone to this and it can be induced by many things including toxicities and supplementation. I’ve been listening to Stephen Rochlitz, Beth O’Hara and Neil Nathan. It results in a lack of heme and a toxicity of accumulated porphyrin. This has vast consequences on the ability of the body to detoxify. I’m just wondering if vA toxicity can induce porphyria in some (20%) people or maybe having this genetic tendency makes you more susceptible to vA toxicity. Stephen Rochlitz says it’s why people get worse on supplements. All fascinating stuff. I’ve sent off for his book. I’ve long wondered whether heme is a problem for me so this fits. Heme is needed for the CBS enzyme, all the CYP450s and many others. Just another rabbit hole I’ve been down.
https://www.betterhealthguy.com/episode101
I will try to look into this, thanks.
As for supplementation, I seem to react to any food with more than 10-20% of RDA of folate in one sitting. Broccoli, asparagus, sunflower seeds all eventually lead to worsening of symptoms. It could be that I'm sensitive and deficient in cofactors.
I'm really thinking I've got B12 deficiency. When I was pregnant, I always was borderline anemic. And B12 is necessary for proper folate metabolism. That article was interesting: https://www.b12-vitamin.com/methylation/
Quote from Jenny on April 12, 2021, 4:34 am...
I used to get terrible headaches when I was having high vA diet/supplements. When I started the detox they all went away and I even smugly said to my husband before Christmas (2 years on detox) that I never get headaches anymore! That’s why I thought it couldn’t be vA when they started again. A number of clues led to me looking at excess biogenic amines as a possible cause as headaches are a classic symptom along with dizziness, that I was also starting to get.
I’m not sure I’ve got the right answer but it fits with my observations and I cut out the foods in the ‘very high’ amine list and immediately felt better. It’s a threshold thing and I think I’d passed my threshold for coping with them. Had I inadvertently increased my exposure to amines or has my threshold reduced for some reason on the vA detox? This is the question I’m now interested in looking at if my headaches stay away.
...
Hi @jaj, I wanted to comment on the amine thing. I spent a while a few years ago on the FAILSAFE diet, which lowers amines among other things. I found that the diet did help me and that I did seem to be reacting to amines. I think because I didn't know about the VA thing back then, I eventually dropped FAILSAFE because it didn't fix enough for me. Including headaches! HOWEVER out of all the many diets I tried before Grant's, FAILSAFE changed my rosacea the most.
Once I was on an elevator with another headache person and he told me to do facial stretching. Amazingly, during the course of one elevator ride, we exchanged this tidbit! It helps me. I've boiled it down to this very simple one: just smile/kiss/smile/kiss. I even do this in the night. And I really do think forcing through some water and getting some fresh air and exercize helps any of my little headaches that want to start.
Amines are in general rotten things (the failsafe diet website I used to follow was called 'plant poisons and rotten things') and I suppose amines get detoxified down the same pathways that are over-burdened here in VA land.
The example of scomboid fish poisoning (IMO) illustrates the worst-case scenario of amine poisoning. Symptoms:
"
Other symptoms may include:
Severe reactions include dropping blood pressure, racing heart, and wheezing"
These are the sort of symptoms I'm always been battling, LOL. I'm sure they sound familiar to others here too!
Amines are like VA in that they are UBIQUITOUS! LOL. And I probably should try to keep them lower.
Quote from Vinero on April 12, 2021, 12:53 amI had to quit because the detox became too brutal. My eyes and skin were degenerating. I have dropped the beans and soluble fiber and I'm eating some butter and non fortified milk. It has calmed things down and my eyes and skin are back to normal.
Sorry to hear that your symptoms(inflammation?) went out the control.
Did you consider pulsing A like every ~4 days instead of taking it every day?