Quote from bludicka on December 21, 2019, 7:09 pm

Maybe the cauliflower problem is not formaldehyde but sulfur content:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29518171

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4356/a0de30a310c690fd637027cc3061b207beb0.pdf?_ga=2.38129635.1384758334.1576979727-1476210041.1576979727

 

"The obtained results clearly demonstrated that ALDH could be regulated by sulfur species which inhibited its enzymatic activity. The results also suggested that not H₂S but polysulfides or hydropersulfides were the oxidizing species responsible for this modification. This process was easily reversible by reducing agents. After the treatment with polysulfides or hydropersulfides the level of protein-bound sulfur increased, while the activity of the enzyme dramatically decreased. Moreover, the study demonstrated that ALDH activity was inhibited in vivo in the rat liver after garlic-derived trisulfide administration. This is the first study reporting the regulation of ALDH activity by sulfane sulfur species and the results suggest that it leads to the inhibition of the enzyme."

 

"Also, it is worth mentioning that there are certain food ingredients, like coprine, daidzin, or garlic-derived sulfur compounds, which can produce DSF-like reactions [1,8]." - disulfiram drug (completly inhibits ALDH acitivity)

 

What are polysulfides:

https://www.britannica.com/science/organosulfur-compound/Disulfides-and-polysulfides-and-their-oxidized-products

 

"Polysulfides also undergo certain reactions of this kind. A number of the disulfide S-oxides are flavourants, formed on cutting plants of the Allium genus (onion and garlic) as well as cabbage, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, and so forth."

 

And some people with sulfite sensitivity have very bad reaction to cauliflower.

 

Sulfur content in foods, vegetables:

http://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC1264524&blobtype=pdf

 

But probably only some sulfur compounds in vegetables cause problems, not in meat. Then cabbage, leeks, horseradish, radishes are probably also a problem.

Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2021, 12:57 am

Quote from tim on November 8, 2019, 11:14 am

@jaj

I strongly agree with you. Monte did some good work but he isn't perfect, he falls for the naturalistic fallacy to a degree. Pectin is present in most/all fruits and vegetables. Simply eating apples or oranges leads to absorption of high levels of methanol. Apples and oranges aren't even natural foodstuffs as both are not edible in the wild. Wild oranges are only eaten by San bushmen after they have been fermented underground. I won't avoid eating them ever again but I will definitely be avoiding fruit juices.

Why? Fruit juice without pulp has no fiber->pectin->formaldehyde? I plan to drink orange juice with baking soda diluted with mineral water during summer. 

Quote from lil chick on March 24, 2021, 6:03 am

Chickens will eat almost anything--even things that will poison them like avocado peels.  But they won't eat citrus.  They also ignore pineapple.  Cats also hate citrus.  As  a crazy cat/chicken lady I've been puzzled by these things.  😉

(chickens love berries and apples and tomatoes and orange squash and melons and vinegar water...)

Quote from salt on March 24, 2021, 6:37 am

Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2021, 12:57 am

Quote from tim on November 8, 2019, 11:14 am

@jaj

I strongly agree with you. Monte did some good work but he isn't perfect, he falls for the naturalistic fallacy to a degree. Pectin is present in most/all fruits and vegetables. Simply eating apples or oranges leads to absorption of high levels of methanol. Apples and oranges aren't even natural foodstuffs as both are not edible in the wild. Wild oranges are only eaten by San bushmen after they have been fermented underground. I won't avoid eating them ever again but I will definitely be avoiding fruit juices.

Why? Fruit juice without pulp has no fiber->pectin->formaldehyde? I plan to drink orange juice with baking soda diluted with mineral water during summer. 

Juice has pectin. Pectin is a soluble fiber, soluble fiber means it’s water soluble, it’s in the juice, not in the pulp. Some manufacturers enzymatically treat their juice to remove the pectin. The clear see through apple juices have been treated this way, and they may be a safer option. Personally for me it has a slightly too high carotenoid content.

Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2021, 6:47 am

@salt " it’s in the juice, not in the pulp."

Doesn't make any sense. Soluble fiber is part of the pulp. Juice has just trace amounts of soluble fiber. Soluble fiber in water is in gel form and orange juice from the store is liquid like water. So it will have really small amount of pectin in it. I can't eat apples they are pectin bombs like legumes, but I have no problem eating 1-2 oranges a day. How much orange juice I would need to drink to get the amount of soluble fiber that is in 2 oranges hehe.. Apple juice is tasty. But it's too high in fructose and no vit C.. I can't wait drinking orange juice during hot days. I will neutralize the acids with baking soda and the sodium from baking soda will also balance potassium from the juice.. Sugars, vit C, potassium, sodium. Great "adrenal cocktail" like Morley Robbins is basically using..

Quote from salt on March 24, 2021, 7:27 am

Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2021, 6:47 am

@salt " it’s in the juice, not in the pulp."

Doesn't make any sense. Soluble fiber is part of the pulp. Juice has just trace amounts of soluble fiber. Soluble fiber in water is in gel form and orange juice from the store is liquid like water. So it will have really small amount of pectin in it. I can't eat apples they are pectin bombs like legumes, but I have no problem eating 1-2 oranges a day. How much orange juice I would need to drink to get the amount of soluble fiber that is in 2 oranges hehe.. Apple juice is tasty. But it's too high in fructose and no vit C.. I can't wait drinking orange juice during hot days. I will neutralize the acids with baking soda and the sodium from baking soda will also balance potassium from the juice.. Sugars, vit C, potassium, sodium. Great "adrenal cocktail" like Morley Robbins is basically using..

Soluble fiber is literally called soluble fiber because it’s soluble in water. I misspoke earlier, some of it will end up in the pulp, but still a large significant amount will end up in the strained juice.

Literally just go read any juice nutritional label and you will see that fiber is listed. Orange juice has less fiber than untreated apple juice because oranges have less fiber than apples.

Oranges are horrific carotene bombs anyways, so I have no idea why anyone on this website would consume them...

Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2021, 9:03 am

@salt one cup of orange juice has 0,2g of fiber they say. So 1L like 1g max and around 2000iu of carotene. Which is far from "bomb" in comparison with things like carrots, pumpkins, sweet potatoes etc.. I will be on low A almost 3 years in the summer and I am not so sure anymore if I am not doing more harm than good keeping vit A from all sources that low...  So I could be in position now where I can eat some vit A(less than RDA) again without any negative effect. Of course if I would feel like I does something negative I will cut back.. 

Quote from tim on March 24, 2021, 10:11 am

@jiri

Yeah it is a bit confusing because there isn't that much fiber listed in juice but all of it is pectin.

Fruit juices contain methanol and pectin whereas fresh fruit only contains pectin.

If you ferment fruit juice incorrectly you can produce enough methanol to blind or kill you. All of the methanol produced comes from pectin in the juice.

Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2021, 10:48 am

Quote from tim on March 24, 2021, 10:11 am

@jiri

Yeah it is a bit confusing because there isn't that much fiber listed in juice but all of it is pectin.

Fruit juices contain methanol and pectin whereas fresh fruit only contains pectin.

If you ferment fruit juice incorrectly you can produce enough methanol to blind or kill you. All of the methanol produced comes from pectin in the juice.

Why juice contains methanol and fresh fruit only pectin? So fresh juice doesn't have methanol? I don't get it. Btw what is confusing about low fiber content listed in juice? If it's juice without pulp it's obvious that it will be low in fiber. Anyway I still don't understand why orange is ok, but juice from like 6 oranges is not. Clearly there is less fiber(soluble) in 1L of juice than in whole orange.. So why is that tiny amount of fiber a problem? heh