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Formaldehyde in Foods
Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2021, 9:03 am@salt one cup of orange juice has 0,2g of fiber they say. So 1L like 1g max and around 2000iu of carotene. Which is far from "bomb" in comparison with things like carrots, pumpkins, sweet potatoes etc.. I will be on low A almost 3 years in the summer and I am not so sure anymore if I am not doing more harm than good keeping vit A from all sources that low... So I could be in position now where I can eat some vit A(less than RDA) again without any negative effect. Of course if I would feel like I does something negative I will cut back..
The lowest amount of fiber I've seen for any orange juice is 0.2 grams per 100 grams of juice. Most of them have double that, or even more. I don't know where you got that 0.8 grams per liter measurement but it must have been a pretty good brand, at least in this regard.
Untreated apple juice has a lot more, a thick apple juice can have as much as 10 grams of pectin per liter.
In regards to VA, 2000 iu is a lot and oranges also have more carotenoids than just beta-carotene.
Quote from Jiří on March 24, 2021, 10:48 am
Why juice contains methanol and fresh fruit only pectin? So fresh juice doesn't have methanol? I don't get it. Btw what is confusing about low fiber content listed in juice? If it's juice without pulp it's obvious that it will be low in fiber. Anyway I still don't understand why orange is ok, but juice from like 6 oranges is not. Clearly there is less fiber(soluble) in 1L of juice than in whole orange.. So why is that tiny amount of fiber a problem? heh
Because juice starts to ferment as soon as it's pressed and because commercial juice uses low quality fruit that is often already starting to ferment (making mycotoxins a problem as well).
If you juice your own fruit then maybe you will get less pectin than eating whole fruit, I don't know. If I drink juice though it will be a small bottle or a glass of it whereas I can easily eat just a small quantity of fruit, a few berries or grapes. Juice definitely contains significant amounts of pectin though since lethal amounts of methanol can be produced from it when it ferments.
I think the important thing is to avoid excessive consumption of juice, whole fruit, legumes and vegetables.
@tim-2 I really want to understand this, but to me it makes zero sense LOL. Show me any evidence that juice from the store is already fermenting and that there is significant amount of soluble fiber? Like I said if I don't have a problem eating whole oranges how can be a problem small amount of soluble fiber in juice???? Also if methanol/formaldehyde from fresh fruits and fruit juices is so toxic why fruitarians/vegans are not dropping left and right from liver damage?? Ray Peat also has no idea that he is drinking his whole life fermented stuff full of methanol that is damaging is liver? The only concern with fruit juice for most people can be sugar/fructose content. I can understand that, but worry about fiber content in fruit juice without pulp if eating whole fruit is ok really makes no sense sorry..
I don’t understand whether pectin is bad or not. I had tried modified citrus pectin just before joining this low vA experiment. I felt better immediately. Also I had read that modified pectin induces a vA deficiency! Maybe this was due to my body manufacturing methanol? I suppose ethanol is produced at the same time?
if ethanol helps to get rid of vA, maybe methanol does this too? It just parks it in the eyes first making you blind? Is there a way to stop this? If methanol and ethanol are a couple such as vA and vD, what is the -ol that is the third one and corresponds to vK?
The mind boggles, sorry. It is just that I want to SEE.
When I look to tradition, fruits were condiments and even sometimes used as medicine by my ancestors. They weren't so much staples, tho. Prunes were used to physic people, pinapple was used against phlem. Cucumbers were condiments as pickles. Berry jams were big, but if you have made jam you will know: jam is mostly flavored SUGAR. (2 cups of berries + 2 cups of sugar, and people knew then how to make jam without added pectin) These WERE daily additions, but they were not taken in huge amounts.
We have some old photographs of people standing around drinking fresh cider in the Victorian age, but it was an autumn treat, not a daily thing. Orange juice was hand squeezed in a little reamer and came in shot-0glass amounts and was seasonal (winter). Lemon juice was made into ade in the summer but that was just a bit of lemon, compared to the water and sugar. Vinegar water was also taken, but the amount of vinegar was also small.
However, there is the old saw about an apple a day.
We are surrounded by orchard here and that hasn't enticed us to eat or drink many fruits, and lots goes to waste, really. We get our fill very quickly of fruits. "Hey, A new peach! Good until next year." 😉
Methanol poisoning occurs when formate production exceeds formate clearance. This doesn't occur from eating fruit obviously but methanol metabolism uses up folic acid and generates formaldehyde and consuming lots of pectin will create metabolic stress.
It's not something to stress over, drinking some juice will not cause you great harm, we just want to keep an eye on our pectin intake in my opinion.
I just spotted an apple juice with 25 grams of fiber per liter/quart.
Quote from salt on March 25, 2021, 11:42 amI just spotted an apple juice with 25 grams of fiber per liter/quart.
We have two types of apple juice. One is džus(juice) which is transparent and liquid like water. That has just trace amounts of fiber and the second is called mošt and that looks like dirt water and is much thicker. That will be filled with pectin for sure..