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From Accutane to Appendectomy

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Hello all, I’m Rob, a 42 y/o male, with a history of overall good health, but have suffered from mild facial eczema and episodes of intermittent, acute severe abdominal pain for 10-15 years. I took Accutane as a teenager, and after discovering Grant’s research and info on vitamin A, I believe it is the source of my chronic issues. I wanted to share my story with the community to serve as another data point; hopefully it will assist others experiencing similar issues, and maybe help me with my condition as well.

Throughout my life I’ve been generally healthy, no major chronic issues other than mentioned above, with the exception of lower back pain which I keep at bay with regular exercise. I’ve always eaten mostly healthy by today’s standards - home cooked food, not a lot of restaurant/takeout/fastfood. I could definitely have benefited from more physical activity. I work in IT so mostly sedentary, but for the last four years I’ve been exercising regularly 4+ days per week. I do drink alcohol, at times in the past to excess, I smoked cigarettes for a couple years in college, and have recently taken up occasional cigar smoking, one or two a week. No other drug use, legal or illegal. In early 2019 I realized my overall health was declining due to lack of physical activity and excessive alcohol consumption. I stopped drinking for six months, even gave up coffee for several months, and started working out 4-5 days per week, as well as intermittent fasting. Since then I’ve kept up with the intermittent fasting and exercise, but I do drink coffee and consume alcohol, which recently is more days than not on average, which needs to and will swing back in the other direction. Other than the abdominal pain, I'd say I'm the healthiest and happiest I've been at this point in life. I now believe likely the worst thing I’ve ever done for my health is taking Accutane for acne as a teen in the mid nineties. 

Around the mid/late two-thousands, I started getting “attacks” of acute severe lower abdominal pain, at an interval of one to six months, but typically once every three months. The pain is below my belly button, and more to the left and center, not so much on the right. The pain begins as a mild nag, and usually within an hour or two progresses to severe debilitating non-stop pain, causing me to lie in bed writhing around until it subsides several hours later. At its peak, the pain will ebb and flow in waves from extreme to severe, and radiates to my lower back as well. During the bad attacks I will usually experience excessive belching. Occasionally when the pain is the most extreme it will cause me to vomit, not from nausea or upset stomach, but just from the overwhelming pain. I’ve tried: Tylenol/Advil/Aspirin, Excederin, activated charcoal, and Levsin SL (Hyoscyamine Sulfate Tablets) for the pain, all to no avail. In nearly all cases, the only thing that consistently relieves the pain is when I manage to relax enough, and ignore the pain enough, to fall asleep; after I wake, even if after only an hour, the pain has subsided to a dull ache. I will then feel uncomfortable for a few days after, in both my lower back and abdomen. Rarely, I will feel the onset of an “attack”, but after an hour or two it subsides and never progresses to severe pain. Early on, when I was trying the various meds listed above, I thought they were sometimes effective, but now I believe it’s chance/luck whether the pain will subside or progress to severe. Ten or so years ago, I did see two different GI doctors about my condition. They did blood tests, a CT scan, X-ray, and came up with nothing. One doctor prescribed the Levsin, which did nothing.

For at least ten years I’ve also had intermittent recurring mild eczema on my face, mostly around my eyes and on my neck. This is nothing like what Grant experienced, thankfully. I get patches of dry, red skin, which eventually flakes/peels off; sometimes it will get deep enough to crack and bleed very slightly. It does not burn or itch, just more of an unsightly annoying condition. I went to a dermatologist many years ago, and they prescribed some type of vitamin A (ha!) topical cream, which at the time I did try as I had not discovered Grant / vitamin A as I know now. My memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but it definitely did not help, and may have made it worse. I didn’t use it long, and never went to another doctor for this issue. I do use face moisturizer daily, and I’ve tried different brands over the years, none of which really help this condition. Before discovering Grant’s info on vitamin A, I thought maybe the skin issue was seasonal - it was usually worse in the winter, and the climate where I live gets cold and dry. I’m now pretty sure the cause is actually vitamin A, and seasonality due not to weather but my diet - fresh tomatoes/peppers/eggplant in the summer, and sweet potatoes and pumpkin in the fall.

I discovered Grant and his research about a year ago. I dabbled with an ultra low VA diet (beef, rice, and beans) a couple times for a few days, but was not strict with it. I like and enjoy a variety of foods, and my wife is a good cook, so it's hard to stick to my "gruel" as I now call it. I did take note to reduce my intake of bright/dark fruits and veggies and dairy. Last year I became aware of diverticulitis, and my symptoms seemed to fit the criteria. I started taking note of what I ate soon before having attacks, and a couple times it was foods with seeds in them. I started avoiding seeds for several weeks/months, but then had another attack, so that theory was out. (Aside - recent research now shows that seeds are not likely the cause of diverticulitis.)

About six weeks ago, I decided to get serious with the ultra low VA beef/rice/beans diet five days a week, and then eat “regular” food on the weekends, while still avoiding the high VA foods. I do cheat with a few indulgences during the week - beer and whiskey (not together), (in-shell) peanuts, and hard pretzels. I followed the regimen for a solid four weeks, and after a couple weeks noticed my skin condition worsen on my face and neck; it seems this was likely a detox related flare-up. Then last Monday evening I had the worst “attack” I’ve ever experienced. The pain was more constant and extremely severe, starting around 10pm and keeping me up all night. Around 8am I went to the ER. By the time I was actually taken in and spoke to a doctor, the pain had subsided to the point I was able to function and speak intelligently. In speaking with the doctor about my history and condition, they were leaning toward diverticulitis. They did blood tests, which were all negative, then did an ultrasound and CT scan, which showed no indication of diverticulitis, but shockingly showed appendicitis! Despite my pain typically being center/left, which is most certainly was again this time, when the doctor pressed on my lower abdomen, it did not cause increased pain in the center and left, but did hurt when he pressed on the right where the appendix is located. Fast forward another twelve hours and I was waking up in recovery, minus one vestigial organ.

My best guess at this point is that the eczema flare-up and severe “attack” was a detox symptom of the consistent low VA diet for several weeks. The curious part is of course the appendicitis. The state of my appendix was not normal at the time of the hospital visit, but it was also (thankfully) not to the point of bursting. Could this have been caused by the VA detox? Unfortunately I’ll never know. Part of me wishes I had opted out of the surgery to see if the appendix returned to normal, but the downside of potential literal death got the best of me, so I went with the surgery.

As a rule, I am generally anti-establishment and anti-doctor/anti-big-pharma, especially since the Covid-19 fiasco. I’m always skeptical of anyone that has “skin in the game”, regardless of the subject. That said, I really like the surgeon who performed my appendectomy, especially after speaking with him during my followup visit. He was very candid, and spoke in plain no-nonsense language about my condition. He referred to IBS as “irritable bullshit” - because it’s a made-up diagnosis doctors label you with when they don’t really know what’s wrong with you. He stated he does not believe that chronic appendicitis is possible; there is not a lot of info out there on this, it’s pretty rare and hard to diagnose. One interesting thing he mentioned is that he found some of my organs had adhesions, or connective tissue, between them which they shouldn’t have been there, so he “disconnected” them. Could that be the source of my ongoing pain - “maybe” was his answer. He advised against any further tests at this time, such as scopes, MRI, etc., and advised against going back to the ER if I get another attack. He said hopefully my condition is cured, but if it comes back to follow up with him directly.

So now I wait. As of this week, I’m back on the ultra low VA diet  of 85/15 ground beef, brown rice, and black beans during the week, and easing that up on the weekends. I’ve substituted the beer/whiskey during the week with hop water. I also just discovered a great new podcast, the Quax Podcast (which Grant was a guest on, twice, I've listened to only his first episode so far). Through Quax I also discovered Dr. Garrett Smith and his VA detox regimen, which I still need to research further. I visited a local long-time well-established health food / supplement store this week and spoke with the owner, who unfortunately has not heard any of the VA as a toxin theory, and was somewhat dismissive of it altogether, insisting they’ve used VA as a successful treatment.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading! Finally, thanks so much to Grant for his contributions.

Rob

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puddleduckAudreyHermeskathy55woodPJTommyAndrew BDonaldDeleted user

Good on ya Rob. Think you are going to love Garrett Smith's livestreams.

(11570) Love Your Liver Livestream 95: All Channel Subscriber Q&A! #vitaminadetox #copperdetox - YouTube

I found Grant and Garrett through Judy Cho on her youtube NutritionwithJudy channel. Good interviews.  

Your condition describes my experience to a tee, I had the exact same thing happen to me after a while on the low VA diet. The pain was so agonizing that I'd throw up. After the first "attack" as you describe them, my urine was the most orange I've ever seen the color orange before. There was obviously progress in that, and I didn't want to chicken out by switching to a moderate VA diet, but the pain was unbearable. Luckily, the attacks were less severe each time they happened, and I figured out how to completely prevent it. Taking activated charcoal during the episode offered no relief, but proactively taking it before bed when it was pretty clear it was going to happen resolved the issue. Granted, your case was much more severe than mine by the looks of things.

I've been postulating for a while that the appendix is used for storing carotenoids, but have been unable to find any good data. Researchers have approached appendicitis from a bacterial infection angle for over 100 years now, so it's no wonder they are clueless as to what it's purpose is.

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AudreyHermes

Some are making the connection between oxalates and VA metabolism.  I remember having a kidney stone many years ago and the pain was similar to what you describe. Nightshades are high in oxalates.

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puddleduckAudreyHermesAoifeDonald

Perhaps it's a good idea to ease into a low vitamin A diet by replenishing choline first. Andrew has provided a lot of evidence showing how important this underappreciated nutrient is in restoring liver health. It's really easy to be deficient in choline, especially as the toxic load increases, and I'm not just talking about vA accumulating, but oxolates and other toxins that get stored in the liver. If I had to start my detox journey all over again, I would not go straight to super low vitamin A, but first make sure I had adequate choline in my diet. Now this sounds a little queer, but a very good source of choline is eggs. Yes, they also contain some retinol, but the choline outweighs the problematic vitamin A, not that I have proof of this, but it's my educated guess. For more on this topic of how eggs can help you in the detox process, check out this thread where you will find a lot of valuable information from Andrew: https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/eggs-as-part-of-vitamin-a-reduction/

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Orionlil chickAudreyAndrew B

Welcome here, @robc! 🙂

Thank you for sharing your story and your observations so far. I'm sorry to hear about your "attacks," but I do hope the surgery has resolved the pain for good. (Though, it must offer peace of mind to know you have a no-nonsense surgeon in your corner.)

All the best to you on this journey! Looking forward to reading more posts from you in the future.

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kathy55wood
Quote from Tobias on May 25, 2023, 11:39 am

Your condition describes my experience to a tee, I had the exact same thing happen to me after a while on the low VA diet. The pain was so agonizing that I'd throw up. After the first "attack" as you describe them, my urine was the most orange I've ever seen the color orange before. There was obviously progress in that, and I didn't want to chicken out by switching to a moderate VA diet, but the pain was unbearable. Luckily, the attacks were less severe each time they happened, and I figured out how to completely prevent it. Taking activated charcoal during the episode offered no relief, but proactively taking it before bed when it was pretty clear it was going to happen resolved the issue. Granted, your case was much more severe than mine by the looks of things.

I've been postulating for a while that the appendix is used for storing carotenoids, but have been unable to find any good data. Researchers have approached appendicitis from a bacterial infection angle for over 100 years now, so it's no wonder they are clueless as to what it's purpose is.

@tobias - Thank you for the comment, this is very interesting. You said the "attacks" didn't start for you until after the low VA diet, so what led you to pursue that diet? Also regarding charcoal, do you take it every night as a prophylactic, or only as needed at the first signs of abdominal pain? How much do you take?

As for myself, I've been sticking to the low VA diet as described above, "gruel" during the week with the addition of a few eggs each day (we get them fresh from a family member that raises chickens, so that's a plus), regular foods on the weekends but nothing high in VA. I've not had any more abdominal pain episodes, but the eczema on my face and neck has been consistently flared up. I did cheat a bit yesterday and ate a small piece of salmon (used to eat it semi-regularly, love it!), and this morning one of my eyelids was noticeably swollen. I've had this happen occasionally over the years (swollen eyelid in the morning), but never associated it with eating high VA food until now.

Another chronic condition I've suffered from seemingly forever is tinnitus. I don't really remember adult life without my ears ringing, and just kind of got used to it and accepted it. I really only noticed it when in a very quiet environment. However, it seems like since I've been on the low VA diet, the tinnitus has significantly worsened. The ringing is much more pronounced, and perceptible when in an environment with regular background noise. Not sure that it is at all VA related, though the correlation with the new diet makes me think it's possible. I need to do some more research.

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AudreyAndrew B

@robc I think what's happening with the eczema is the bile flow is improving due to the salmon (taurine perhaps) and the eggs (choline). I get slight eczema since doing the vitamin A reduction. Beans seemed to make the detox stronger for me and increased eczema. I cut those back as I expanded the variety of my diet which helps the gut microbiome. Similarly with me I get the tinnitus slightly more pronounced with strong detox. The eggs do eventually help but it's striking a balance between stronger detox, the eczema and repairing the leakiness with taurine, betaine, fibre and choline. I recommend trying lymphatic massage to shift the eczema from the face.  Self Lymph Drainage Massage by MassageByHeather.com in Louisville, KY - YouTube

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AudreyHermes

@robc your lower abdominal attacks on the left remind me of monthly attacks I used to get for 8-9 years until I discovered it was my daily chocolate habit that was causing it. I thought I was dumping copper or oxalate at the time, religiously each month, but it wasn't until quitting chocolate for a 3 month period that the monthly pain finally slowly subsided. These days it only occurs every so often and very mildly if I decided to have some chocolate and over do it. I feel my chocolate habit prevented my gallbladder from emptying, and for some reason each month it decided to 'let it all go' (the bile). It's just a theory. It was the worst, most agonising, burning pain I'd ever experienced. I was suicidal. It also involved my lower back. The pain would last from 4 to 7 days each month, and the worst of the pain coincided with leading up to a bowel movement. I would have many bowel movements during these monthly episodes. Once I quit indulging in chocolate it eventually slowly stopped. I started a low vitamin A diet a couple of years after that bc of nasty head symptoms and severe panic attacks, most of which have subsided now. I've been on this diet for just over 4 years, very slowly trying to regain my well being. I feel choline has been a game changer for me the last 6 months and also experimenting with EFAs. There is a thread here somewhere on EFAs. Anyway, welcome here.

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puddleduckHermesPJAndrew B

@robc I was suffering from stomach pain and loose stool quite regularly prior to following the diet. My doctor eventually suggested IBS, but I suspected the food I ate was to blame as there were certain foods that didn't give me any trouble, such as rice. I looked back upon my childhood for guidance and started eating the only things that didn't taste disgusting to my younger self: Rice, beans and lean meat. I quickly found my way to Grant's first book after that and everything became clear.

I take about 10ml of activated charcoal before bed. It alleviates the gut inflammation brought about by excessive swallowing of respitory mucus. While I prefer spitting it out, it's not always practical to do so. My right lung had turned into an auxiliary storage for various phytotoxins and their metabolites, but it's slowly being restored to it's original function. I'll stick to taking AC every night even when I don't feel it's needed since it speeds up the detox process in general.

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puddleduck
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