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Influence of food on ADH and ALDH activity
I haven't seen it here yet, so I think I should post it.
https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/13/4/399/htm
In this study, the effect of the juices of 20 fruits on the excretion of alcohol by mice was studied (Table 1). Yellow lemon, oranges and pears have good results.
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/17/3/354/htm
In this study, the same thing, only 20 drinks. Green and especially black tea are not bad, pear juice and sprite(?). I've always liked sprite.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266592711930005X#bib12
This is in vitro study. However it is interesting because many different categories of products were measured here. Tomatoes, pears and sweet limes look good. Cucumbers raised the ALDH and slightly lowered the ADH. All cereals and peanuts have worsened (although I am a little confused by the extraction, it seems to me that this is far from the actual use of cooked cereals). Spices, too. Coffee and cocoa, vitamin C too. Green and black tea, coconut water slightly improved.
It seems that the pear always shows very good results. Maybe it is worth including pears with a low carotenoid content in the diet?
It is also worth noting that these are short-term effects. The long-term ones may be different.
Although this could explain why giving up cereals and beans so helps on AIP.
If you think about it, this is a very serious influence. If someone just eats oat and takes vitamin C, his detox can be already occur 10 times slower...
By the way, maybe onions and egg whites cause problems because they greatly increase the activity of ADH, but not ALDH, which leads to high concentrations of retinaldehyde. And I blamed tocotrienol for this.
@daniil, I had a personal experience few month ago when adding raw onion and garlic to my food resulted in deep depression and headaches. All gone now but it was a very tough couple of weeks when I figured out what was going on. I never had any issues with onions and garlic before the low vitamin A diet.
However, before someone wants to give up coffee, I would like to warn you that coffee enhances glucuronidation:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20600030/
Glucuronidation removes PUFA, as well as retinoic acid (that is, it accelerates the metabolism of VA at another stage). Therefore, I considered coffee a useful drink. Probably, it is necessary to develop a consensus about coffee.
All very interesting.
Are the increases and decreases of these enzymes the result of necessity to clear the body of the substances being tested? Or is it on the same line as hormesis?
Playing devils advocate for a moment and turning it on its heard, what if certain foods like cereals and legumes had something in them that allowed the body to lower the necessity to turn on as much enzyme activity? What if soluble fiber did much of the bile/vitamin A ester(?) removal and thus the liver didn't need to utilize certain pathways as much?
Just my random ideas this Saturday.
I will admit, It would be hard to square these ideas with the studies listed. So yellow lemon helps but oranges hurt? Both have vitamin C so what is it in oranges that could possibly disrupt alcohol detox? Oranges have sugar and beta-carotene, while lemons are very low in these.
duplicate post
Quote from Armin on July 31, 2021, 10:43 amAll very interesting.
Are the increases and decreases of these enzymes the result of necessity to clear the body of the substances being tested? Or is it on the same line as hormesis?
Playing devils advocate for a moment and turning it on its heard, what if certain foods like cereals and legumes had something in them that allowed the body to lower the necessity to turn on as much enzyme activity? What if soluble fiber did much of the bile/vitamin A ester(?) removal and thus the liver didn't need to utilize certain pathways as much?
Just my random ideas this Saturday.
I will admit, It would be hard to square these ideas with the studies listed. So yellow lemon helps but oranges hurt? Both have vitamin C so what is it in oranges that could possibly disrupt alcohol detox? Oranges have sugar and beta-carotene, while lemons are very low in these.
The first two studies measured the amount of processed alcohol over a certain period of time. So the result is obvious, and it's hard to argue with this. The second study measured activity in a test tube. So there could not be influenced by factors like excretion with bile.
In general, the excretion with bile, as far as I remember, is proportional to the content of vitamin A in the liver. And the more bile binds and leaves the body, the more vitamin A will be excreted. I once calculated that an average of 1800 units of vitamin A are excreted in the urine per day, and about the same amount should be excreted in the feces (if the liver is full). But you can take activated charcoal for the same purposes, you don't have to eat oats.
I do not know why different things affect so differently. And there is little information on this topic, so it is unlikely that we can find out at all now.
I suspect that hormesis occurs in the case of alcohol - the body builds up ALDH cells to remove more aldehydes. Usually, in studies of alcoholics, ALDH works better, and they are really less likely to suffer from certain diseases, such as atherosclerosis.
Quote from Даниил on July 31, 2021, 12:14 pmQuote from Armin on July 31, 2021, 10:43 amAll very interesting.
Are the increases and decreases of these enzymes the result of necessity to clear the body of the substances being tested? Or is it on the same line as hormesis?
Playing devils advocate for a moment and turning it on its heard, what if certain foods like cereals and legumes had something in them that allowed the body to lower the necessity to turn on as much enzyme activity? What if soluble fiber did much of the bile/vitamin A ester(?) removal and thus the liver didn't need to utilize certain pathways as much?
Just my random ideas this Saturday.
I will admit, It would be hard to square these ideas with the studies listed. So yellow lemon helps but oranges hurt? Both have vitamin C so what is it in oranges that could possibly disrupt alcohol detox? Oranges have sugar and beta-carotene, while lemons are very low in these.
The first two studies measured the amount of processed alcohol over a certain period of time. So the result is obvious, and it's hard to argue with this. The second study measured activity in a test tube. So there could not be influenced by factors like excretion with bile.
In general, the excretion with bile, as far as I remember, is proportional to the content of vitamin A in the liver. And the more bile binds and leaves the body, the more vitamin A will be excreted. I once calculated that an average of 1800 units of vitamin A are excreted in the urine per day, and about the same amount should be excreted in the feces (if the liver is full). But you can take activated charcoal for the same purposes, you don't have to eat oats.
Makes sense.
I'm thinking that oranges in addition to the alcohol had a poor outcome due to the fructose and/or vitamin A present in the oranges.
May use lemons/limes to undue the effects of the vitamin A in the liver. Makes me flash back to the scurvy idea. I wonder if it is the vitamin C doing the work or some other compound.
Lemon charcoal all around. 🙂
Quote from Armin on July 31, 2021, 12:26 pmQuote from Даниил on July 31, 2021, 12:14 pmQuote from Armin on July 31, 2021, 10:43 amAll very interesting.
Are the increases and decreases of these enzymes the result of necessity to clear the body of the substances being tested? Or is it on the same line as hormesis?
Playing devils advocate for a moment and turning it on its heard, what if certain foods like cereals and legumes had something in them that allowed the body to lower the necessity to turn on as much enzyme activity? What if soluble fiber did much of the bile/vitamin A ester(?) removal and thus the liver didn't need to utilize certain pathways as much?
Just my random ideas this Saturday.
I will admit, It would be hard to square these ideas with the studies listed. So yellow lemon helps but oranges hurt? Both have vitamin C so what is it in oranges that could possibly disrupt alcohol detox? Oranges have sugar and beta-carotene, while lemons are very low in these.
The first two studies measured the amount of processed alcohol over a certain period of time. So the result is obvious, and it's hard to argue with this. The second study measured activity in a test tube. So there could not be influenced by factors like excretion with bile.
In general, the excretion with bile, as far as I remember, is proportional to the content of vitamin A in the liver. And the more bile binds and leaves the body, the more vitamin A will be excreted. I once calculated that an average of 1800 units of vitamin A are excreted in the urine per day, and about the same amount should be excreted in the feces (if the liver is full). But you can take activated charcoal for the same purposes, you don't have to eat oats.
Makes sense.
I'm thinking that oranges in addition to the alcohol had a poor outcome due to the fructose and/or vitamin A present in the oranges.
May use lemons/limes to undue the effects of the vitamin A in the liver. Makes me flash back to the scurvy idea. I wonder if it is the vitamin C doing the work or some other compound.
Lemon charcoal all around.
An orange is not so bad, especially in the first study.
The idea of scurvy is interesting. What did the sailors eat? Mostly dried fish and cereals...