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Interesting discussion on facebook about oxalates and low VA diet.
Very interesting interview with Dr. Klinghardt about oxalates, how plants today produce much more oxalates because of aluminium toxicity in our enviroment and soil, minute 43:37.
The story about the study in the fb link is quite provocative and goes against the whole theory. I would like to hear Grant's and Smith's thoughts.
Sweden has like the highest rates of osteoporosis and that is not from supplements but from food, including enriched ones. So claiming one cannot get osteoporosis from food alone goes against science.
But this is what stood out to me:
The researchers also saw that the beta-cells' resistance to inflammation decreases in the absence of vitamin A. In case of a complete deficiency, the cells die.
How the h*ll can anyone ever become A deficient in this time and age anyway? That is like virtually impossible esp in the "west". I bet it was some in vitro and not in vivo study anyway? Anything can be proven in a petri dish, but the human body is not a petri dish.
I feel like there are some "boiler plate" thoughts going on (about vit A) in the article about the beta cells. The same thoughts we all arrived with. "The gospel of A" we should perhaps call it.
Should we be surprised that A is involved in pancreatic beta cells? It does seem to be one place A gets into mischief.
I hear what Tommy Wells is saying, (his opinion that high oxylate or high vit A might both be symptoms of a eco/food system gone awry), but does it matter WHAT caused the buckets of oxylate or vit A to accumulate once the person is suffering? Once you have a full bucket, you'll have to apply effort to un-filling the bucket if you want to be well.
What's more, type 1 diabetes, lupus, asthma, kidney disease etc are not new diseases. Grant really made me realize this in one of his ebooks For instance they called it lupus in the olden days because the "lupus butterfly" (like my face) looked like a "wolf" to them, I've read.
Personally, I think there are genetic reasons that some people have a lower tolerance for vit a. I can totally see ancestors with varying amounts of tolerance. I even see how two lines of people with low tolerance intersect in me and my siblings. I've often said I'm a collection of odd recessive genes haha.
Different eating environments and bottle necks could have affected offspring and created talents for and against A. It seems like when the amount of A is wrong for the child, there could be "early pruning" of the family tree. Sadly! Without intervention from modern medicine, for instance insulin therapy, these children wouldn't survive.
Petri dishes aren't people, rats aren't people, and people aren't all the same. It makes things hard.
From the article in the facebook link:
In the event of a diabetes treatment based on the newly found cell surface receptor for vitamin A, Albert Salehi believes that the risk of excessive intake makes the vitamin A itself inappropriate.
"But we're trying to find substances such as small molecules or peptides that are similar to the vitamin A could activate the newly found receptor while lacking the unwanted effects" of vitamin A," he concludes.
I think this supports Grant's theory quite well.
I found interesting the comments - the experiences wit low VA diet, not the opinion of Tommy Wells, I don't believe this: "But you have to wonder if getting sunlight and going on an extremely low-sugar/low-inflammation diet would help improve the internal terrain and thus preventing the buildup of oxalates/ Vitamin A."
And this is nonsense: "Tommy Wells I haven’t read Grant’s books but I’ve watched nearly all of Dr Smith’s videos over the past week. Many hours of his explanations. I’m very familiar with the argument. I don’t even necessarily disagree with most of Dr Smith’s points. He’s just missing a big piece of the puzzle, which is that vitamin A is highly regulated by the body and is activated as neeeded and excreted as needed. Any vitamin A buildup is most certainly due to a need, probably associated with inflammation."
And the study, I don't know... but we know this is not true: "Too much vitamin A is harmful and can lead to osteoporosis. However, there is no risk of excessive intake through food -- the risk lies in taking dietary supplements."
A few days ago I read in the group "Magnesium advocacy group"... Morely Robbins with his root cause protocol and high vitamin A doses, Morley Robbins wrote about chronic vitamin A toxicity that it is a nonsens and the moderators banned to write about Grant's ideas in his group, he thinks that only synthetic version of vitamin A is toxic, one of his comments: "What these myth-leading and FALSE articles are NOT telling you is that they are blurring the dynamics & properties of SYNTHETIC, TOXIC Retinoids vs MTHR NATURE-derived Retinol... They are VERY DIFFERENT nutrients, although they "appear" similar in a test tube!... "A" votre sante!".
"Accutane is a Synthetic, but TOXIC, form of 13-cis Retinoic Acid that DESTROYS the ATP-7B Enzyme that BURNS UP Copper and leaves the individual with LOW/NO Copper to run the body's KEY metabolic pathways...You don't "get rid of Accutane... " You BUILD UP the Bioavailable Copper/Retinol that will become Ceruloplasmin to drive proper Copper<>Iron Homeostasis...
Hope that makes sense. There's a lot of info here: http://rcp123.org
Cheers!"
Quote from lil chick on July 3, 2019, 12:03 pmI feel like there are some "boiler plate" thoughts going on (about vit A) in the article about the beta cells. The same thoughts we all arrived with. "The gospel of A" we should perhaps call it.
Should we be surprised that A is involved in pancreatic beta cells? It does seem to be one place A gets into mischief.
I hear what Tommy Wells is saying, (his opinion that high oxylate or high vit A might both be symptoms of a eco/food system gone awry), but does it matter WHAT caused the buckets of oxylate or vit A to accumulate once the person is suffering? Once you have a full bucket, you'll have to apply effort to un-filling the bucket if you want to be well.
What's more, type 1 diabetes, lupus, asthma, kidney disease etc are not new diseases. Grant really made me realize this in one of his ebooks For instance they called it lupus in the olden days because the "lupus butterfly" (like my face) looked like a "wolf" to them, I've read.
Personally, I think there are genetic reasons that some people have a lower tolerance for vit a. I can totally see ancestors with varying amounts of tolerance. I even see how two lines of people with low tolerance intersect in me and my siblings. I've often said I'm a collection of odd recessive genes haha.
Different eating environments and bottle necks could have affected offspring and created talents for and against A. It seems like when the amount of A is wrong for the child, there could be "early pruning" of the family tree. Sadly! Without intervention from modern medicine for instance, insulin therapy, these children wouldn't survive.
Petri dishes aren't people, rats aren't people, and people aren't all the same. It makes things hard.
In the past I was very mercury and copper toxic - copper detox took me almost four years, the copper is stored primary in the liver and worsens liver function (some people with Wilson disease need liver transplant). I would be curious if my copper toxicity and liver problems contributed to the limited ability to detoxify vitamin A.
Although I totally get that environment matters (and food is part of environment)...genetics seems so obvious to me
In my nuclear family we have 8 mysterious diseases for 5 people. Strangely, we are pretty healthy except for our mystery diseases!
@bludicka how did you detox copper, and how did you find out you were copper toxic? Copper spiral? Wilsons? I am sure A is not the only issue and having liver full of other shit could very well lead to a cocktail effect of some sorts..
Speaking of detox, when I started zeolite urine smelled weird. Not bad, just weird. Then I took a pause for various reasons but started again some weeks ago but this time around the smell was delayed, but when it came it was bad! It smells foul. Horrible!! So bad I have to change my pee bag every day or two instead of weekly else I smell like a danish public urinar but worse. Something is def coming out...
Quote from Liz on July 4, 2019, 12:51 am@bludicka how did you detox copper, and how did you find out you were copper toxic? Copper spiral? Wilsons? I am sure A is not the only issue and having liver full of other shit could very well lead to a cocktail effect of some sorts..
Speaking of detox, when I started zeolite urine smelled weird. Not bad, just weird. Then I took a pause for various reasons but started again some weeks ago but this time around the smell was delayed, but when it came it was bad! It smells foul. Horrible!! So bad I have to change my pee bag every day or two instead of weekly else I smell like a danish public urinar but worse. Something is def coming out...
The most mercury toxic people have problem with copper toxicity too - not all but many, it is a metabolic problem, not genetic - Wilson, weak adrenals also play a huge role in copper toxicity, the mercury holds the other heavy metals and copper in the body. When I excreted most of the mercury, my body started to get rid of copper... and I had all the copper dumping symptoms, those were so strong that I made coffee enema every day for 3.5 years...Copper is excreted via the liver and gallbladder and without coffe enemas I had permanent gallbladder pains. I stopped taking the chelating agents and I did only nutritional balancing - diet, minerals - zinc, molybdenum, food sourced vitamin c... liver, gallbladder, adrenal support, infrarot sauna.. And I had estrogen dominancy for years, copper is estrogenic, many women with estrogen dominancy are copper toxic. In this time I was very sensitive to high copper foods and I started eating meat and eggs for more zinc and stopped high copper foods - nuts, seeds, grains, chocolate.... I had increased copper in the hair analysis.