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Iron Deficiency and Morley Robbins “Root Cause Protocol”
@john if you want to ruin your health go ahead and do Robbins root cause protocol. It is the best by far for that..
Your case is different from @puddleduck. She is female and she was bleeding a lot. She has/had real iron deficiency. Btw Crazy Robbins would still say that even females that have low ferritin and bleed a lot have still iron toxicity... Your ferritin is sky high. You need to start donating blood. There is no other effective way to lower iron fast enough to make a difference. You want ferritin under 100 for sure. Morley Robbins is right about one thing. That iron toxicity is a problem. Big problem especially for older males and over time for older females as well. What he is completely wrong about copper. He says copper is not dangerous at all. That only iron can cause oxidative stress and not copper. Most females who are estrogen dominant are copper toxic and need more iron due to heavy periods. So the worst thing for them would be following his program. Just do some research how many females ruined their health with his protocol and most importantly how Robbins will completely silence any cases like that. You as one uncomfortable question on his facebook etc.. and you are banned instantly. That is how copper toxic people behave btw.. Oh and what will make you EMF sensitive? Copper overload...
I did his protocol years ago. Worst thing I could do. Eating liver and stuff like that. Not taking zinc and eating a loto of copper is suicide for most people today. Look at him how he looks in age of like 70 or something like that. Looks horrible. My father older than him after cancer and drinking eating junk looks healthier. Because he is not poisoning himself with copper. Look at that "copper revolution" guy Does he look healthy to you? Red skin, white hair. Why he has symptoms of copper deficiency when he is taking 20mg of copper daily or whatever he takes?
What you need to do is donating blood asap. Once you lower iron that alone will rise copper. if you want to do some protocol.
Read this THEORY - PROTOCOL - DISCUSSION
Those guys are taking crazy amounts of copper antagonists and have zero symptoms of copper deficiency. Because their body is full of metals like copper..
You have hair test done. You should know that if you are slow oxidizer(if you are) you have hidden copper toxicity. Exactly like me and like majority of adult males today.
Nothing comes even close to hair tissue mineral analysis and their program in combination with HG7 principles where you use EGCG push metals out, use molybdenum after that to eliminate copper with urine and zinc replace those chelated metals..
Look at those interviews with the guy who created HG7 protocol. He takes INSANE amounts of copper antagonists for years. Does he look copper deficient? Like pale/red skin, white/grey hair etc.? No he just keeps chelating crazy amounts from his body.
Quote from Jiří on December 1, 2025, 2:17 pm@john if you want to ruin your health go ahead and do Robbins root cause protocol. It is the best by far for that..
Your case is different from @puddleduck. She is female and she was bleeding a lot. She has/had real iron deficiency. Btw Crazy Robbins would still say that even females that have low ferritin and bleed a lot have still iron toxicity... Your ferritin is sky high. You need to start donating blood. There is no other effective way to lower iron fast enough to make a difference. You want ferritin under 100 for sure. Morley Robbins is right about one thing. That iron toxicity is a problem. Big problem especially for older males and over time for older females as well. What he is completely wrong about copper. He says copper is not dangerous at all. That only iron can cause oxidative stress and not copper. Most females who are estrogen dominant are copper toxic and need more iron due to heavy periods. So the worst thing for them would be following his program. Just do some research how many females ruined their health with his protocol and most importantly how Robbins will completely silence any cases like that. You as one uncomfortable question on his facebook etc.. and you are banned instantly. That is how copper toxic people behave btw.. Oh and what will make you EMF sensitive? Copper overload...
I did his protocol years ago. Worst thing I could do. Eating liver and stuff like that. Not taking zinc and eating a loto of copper is suicide for most people today. Look at him how he looks in age of like 70 or something like that. Looks horrible. My father older than him after cancer and drinking eating junk looks healthier. Because he is not poisoning himself with copper. Look at that "copper revolution" guy Does he look healthy to you? Red skin, white hair. Why he has symptoms of copper deficiency when he is taking 20mg of copper daily or whatever he takes?
What you need to do is donating blood asap. Once you lower iron that alone will rise copper. if you want to do some protocol.
Read this https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/theory-protocol-discussion.53813/
Those guys are taking crazy amounts of copper antagonists and have zero symptoms of copper deficiency. Because their body is full of metals like copper..
You have hair test done. You should know that if you are slow oxidizer(if you are) you have hidden copper toxicity. Exactly like me and like majority of adult males today.
Nothing comes even close to hair tissue mineral analysis and their program in combination with HG7 principles where you use EGCG push metals out, use molybdenum after that to eliminate copper with urine and zinc replace those chelated metals..
Look at those interviews with the guy who created HG7 protocol. He takes INSANE amounts of copper antagonists for years. Does he look copper deficient? Like pale/red skin, white/grey hair etc.? No he just keeps chelating crazy amounts from his body.
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The requested page could not be found.
Heh don't know why the link doesn't work. Anyway it is simply the first post on the forum
" THEORY - PROTOCOL - DISCUSSION"
SO when I copy the name of the thread it works. I don't understand how this works hehe
@jiri I've done like 6 self phlebotomies like 3 years ago to bring it below 100, now it's around 175, looking to do more to keep it below 100, maybe the increase is due release from tissues. I did have a mouth full of mercury for almost 4 decades so I know I am or was very mercury toxic, I've done about 50 rounds of alpha lipoic acid and a few dmsa rounds of chelation. Andy Cutler says mercury toxic people are usually copper toxic and it doesn't help that Ive had hepatitis B for probably since I was 5 but only knew about it when I was 21. Took a round of epivir at the time and brought the viral load down and it's always been undetectable levels but now very low since tests sensitivity has improved. That throws another wrench into things, I recall reading about how hep B can increase iron storage in liver, or maybe it was copper, not sure.
Anyhow, at the time of my vC, vD supplementation my subsequent hair test did correlate with Morley Robbins idea, as my copper levels in the lower percentile of below normal. But my last hair test in 2023 shows right in the middle percentile of people. You said hair test analysis are pretty accurate so i may not be copper toxic then?
As far as EMF sensitivity, I have considered copper toxicity but with my circumstances, I'm starting to lean towards iron overload and or a long stemming systemic bacteria or yeast infection. Why do I think this? Because I'm a lot more sensitive to AC magnetic fields than DC. I can drive in my truck exposed to much higher levels without issues, but just the minimal AC magnetic fields in building or power lines severely effects me. Iron is the required metal for induction cookware because of high resistance causing eddy currents and heat from high switching AC magnetic fields. Copper is an extremely poor metal for induction although ait's very good as an RF antenna. The bacteria and yeast possibility is because my EMF sensitivity began or increased severely when I had a major gut infections like years ago and has gotten worse every year since. Could that have somehow increased or messed with my copper or iron absorption so much to cause such a dramatic EMF effect? I'm not too sure but bacteria and or candida can increase dramatically in such a short time and make its way deeper into my body. I don't know it's all speculative, there's so much misinformation out there that it's gotten even the smartest experts heads spinning not know what is true or false. My biggest hope is that it IS bacteria and yeast, to which I am looking to try the Dr Daniels turpentine protocol.
@john in what laboratory you did the hair test. You obviously don't understand the science behind it at all. Just because hair level is low doesn't mean you don't have organs full of it. This is issue for most people who can't interpret hair test. It is not about single elements, but about ratios and pattern. If you are slow or fast oxidizer. I am sure you are slow oxidizer and "poor eliminator" so iron, copper, mercury, lead everything can be low. Because your body is not strong enough to detox it. Once you are on the program for some time. Stat to taking proper elements your chemistry needs after some time you will see metals coming out.
I don't know in what lab you had the test done. The only proper method is used by US labs ARl and TEl. Those are labs where hair testing started. They should give you also detailed report in pdf with like 30 pages where you can read and learn what is going on.. Other labs are garbage.
You also don't understand that the more copper toxic you are the more copper deficiency symptoms you will have. Because it will be stuck in the liver that is already damaged, nutrients needed for good thyroid/adrenal function depleted and so the ability of your liver to make copper transport proteins will be none.
Morley Robbins and his protocol is wrong.. Slow oxidizers retain copper and vitamin A. They are toxic not deficient. For people like that eating beef liver full of iron, copper and vitamin A is death sentence. I did it years ago. I was very sick before I started with that stupid stuff and after I stopped it is miracle that I didn't end up dead. Tok me almost decade detox all that vit A that that individual is recommending to all people.
Candida is just another classic symptom of copper toxicity. You need to simply understand you need very small amount of copper. Once you overload the system due to mercury toxicity, altering hormones or whatever it is next to impossible for the body to fix it on its own and if you keep taking more and more you just end up with cancer or some neurodegenerative disease once all that free copper damages everything by oxidative stress.
Do what you want wit this info. I wish somebody told me this 10 years ago...
@jiri, yes i forgot to mention Andy Cutler does say mercury toxic people can throw off hair tests. He has a book on hair test analysis. And that copper can actually mimmick mercury toxicity itself. But his supplement recommendation like high dose vitamin C , zine, mag , increases iron and chelates copper?
Looking at the symptoms I am probably a slow oxidizer as you guessed. I got the hair test through Direct Labs / Doctor's Data.
Did you do that H7 protocol, or did you only detox vA? That H7 does sounds interesting but I don't know think I can handle the high loads of of it, just 50mg of zinc gives me a strange headache kind of sharp headache. I would start at low does relatively I suppose. I'm thinking donating blood would at least take care of the iron but not copper. I just started eating calamria , sunflower and pumkins seeds to for the copper, I'm also going back and forth. I wonder if sunflower seeds in baseball isn't just a coincidence but supplying copper to athletes for peak performance... but if you are right, that goes out the window lol. I kinda think you are right though about my situation, i mean, my ceuroplasmin and copper blood work was normal five and about again 2 years ago. Tells me i'm not copper deficient in at least in those two aspects.
It's true that Morley Robbins does look poorly than most 70 year olds, and Dr Berg is not looking well these days. Clearly they are missing something in their equation, else they'd look the healthiest. The same goes with Joe Rogan, and I'm waiting to see for Bryan Johnson. One think I know for sure they are missing is the levels of EMF exposures in their equation.
@john I was exactly like you 10 years ago. If someone was telling me what I am telling you right now I would be fixed living completely different life.
Instead because I didn't understand it at all. I was doing blood tests all the time had deficient copper in the blood and low ceruloplasmin. So once I saw Morley and what he is talking about I was like that's ticket to health. But after a year or so nothing got better. Maybe I felt more energy at first because copper is strong stimulant basically neurotoxin. Like you are on high dose stimulant all the time. But after that I was completely fucked. Not able to do anything.
It was not just because of copper, but because of vit A toxicity as well. Like I said basically it is the worst protocol that most people can do.
Vise versa Dr.Smith/Grant Genereux with their prison diet basically starch, some legume and red meat is much better. Much more balanced for slow oxidizers. Most people adults are slow oxidizers.
Cutler was not looking deep into hair testing. He had no idea. Paul Eck had decades of experience with it. It is great tool. But you have to test in ARl so they don't watch the hair sample with solvents. SO you get proper report etc..
Nutritional balancing based on hair tests is great and works to fix the root causes, but it is very slow.
HG7 components like EGCG and molybdenum seems to be very important while detoxing. Which Paul Eck or Dr.Wilson were not working much with stuff like this not even molybdenum.
The guy who created HG7 made some really good discoveries, but at the same time doesn't understand the full picture. So you have to take what he is saying with grain of salt.
For me just zinc doesn't work like in your case and in trough HG7 perspective it make sense why.
I am careful to not jump on new protocol since many of them almost killed me. So after more than a year of just observing all those guys I just started recently.
I am doing just 10% dose which seams reasonable and I am trying to figure out the formula what works for me. When what to take, what symptoms means what..
I think EGCG is essential, because it can cross the blood brain barrier and there is not question that I have mercury, copper and other stuff in there..
I don't think I will ever do those crazy doses. I don't chase some super feeling to be some kind of super human like some of those young guys on that forum.. I am chasing slow and safe path to balance...
I would stop all those copper foods. Like I said you need to simply understand that we need very little copper. Around 1mg is all you need and you get that from even diet like rice and meat. Nuts, seeds and all that will do nothing for you. Just make you worse over time..
So I think doing hair testing in ARl to see the changes and HG7 is the best stuff we have right now. Everything else is just masking the symptoms, but sooner or later you will just end with serious issues like cancer that can't be fixed anymore...
Donating blood is good, but you need to be careful. I did self bleeding as well and it crashed me hard. Slow oxidizers have hard time to build new blood..
Which lab do you use, ARL or TEI and where's the best place to order them from?
Also, after Morley's protocol didn't seem to work for you and made you worse, what have you done or learned since then that you think has helped you?
How long have you been doing the HG7 protocol?
@john What country you are from. If you are in US there is all kinds of practitioners. If ARL or TEI is better is hard to tell. They have different approaches and supplements. I think ARL is more basic and original. I would go with that.. I ordered ARL test from Luke Pryor, but he gave me his report not report from the lab.. I am not saying his report is bad. It is somewhat similar, but when it comes to recommended supplements I would trust more the original report.
At the end if you want to combine it with HG7 stuff maybe it doesn't matter that much. They both don't work much with molybdenum for example to help pull copper from the body which I think they need to start doing that. So maybe you can just order hair test from Luke Pryor and he will send to the hair test results and some report and recommended Valance supplements. They are decent brand. They multiple forms an types for each mineral. Like their zinc I think is really good.. But still they don't have molybdenum, which I think is big part. So it needs to be combined with HG7 stuff I think..
In terms of Robbins I already said what I think. His protocol is the worst thing that you can do as slow oxidizer that already has excess of metals like copper and vitamin A as well. After doing his protocol and after or before I don't know what I did first Ray Peat diet I was really vit A, copper poisoned. After that I did 5 yeras of very low vit A diet. I did a lot of red meat, rice, beans, buckwheat. I eliminated a lot of vit A during those years but I think I made my iron and copper toxicity worse.. All that copper toxicity just stimulated and pushed my adrenals to keep pumping adrenaline. SO I had to urge to constantly over exercise like crazy to feel little normal after that, but over time it just depleted stuff liek B vitamins, vit C, zinc etc.. Once I stopped high copper foods, stopped with chronic over exercising and started to taking more extra stuff like zinc, molybdenum etc.. Things got better, but until now I was not addressing iron. I did here and there some bloodletting, but I kept eating a lot of red meat. Only recently couple months back I finally stopped with red meat
Low dose hg7 I startd like 10 days ago and it does something for sure. I just need to go slow, because I still have issues with bile flow. Which is the most important thing for detox.. So I have to work on that.. What slows it down is stress outside of diet and stuff just life stuff. So that keeps detox not happening as well.
Basically you can do all the things with diet and supps right, but if you have chronic stress from whatever reason like family, work whatever. It will be hard to make progress..