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isotretinoin therapy and whey protein supplementation: an underreported and hepatotoxic combination
Quote from
ggenereux on January 27, 2023, 12:22 pm
Concomitant isotretinoin therapy and whey protein
supplementation: an underreported and hepatotoxic
combination in adolescents - Literature Review
Concomitant isotretinoin therapy and whey protein
supplementation: an underreported and hepatotoxic
combination in adolescents - Literature Review
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puddleduckNavnkathy55woodAndrew BDonald
Quote from
Jiří on January 27, 2023, 2:04 pm
Weird papers. How much whey protein the rats were consuming? What is the mechanism that whey protein causes liver damage? Why they even think that whey protein has something to di with elevated liver enzymes in boys who take accutane? If anything whey protein is the least toxic supplement that boys taking while doing bodybuilding. 15yo boy will not tell the doctor that he is taking some prohormones or even regular steroids.. Especially now it's crazy how many teen boys take steroids.. So in this case of whey I would say the old "correlation does not imply causation"
Weird papers. How much whey protein the rats were consuming? What is the mechanism that whey protein causes liver damage? Why they even think that whey protein has something to di with elevated liver enzymes in boys who take accutane? If anything whey protein is the least toxic supplement that boys taking while doing bodybuilding. 15yo boy will not tell the doctor that he is taking some prohormones or even regular steroids.. Especially now it's crazy how many teen boys take steroids.. So in this case of whey I would say the old "correlation does not imply causation"
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Quote from
Ourania on January 27, 2023, 4:28 pm
Whey protein = glutamate is very high. This will ensure that the isotretinoin is not detoxed but stored. A bit like the Marmite effect ( @jaj )
Whey protein = glutamate is very high. This will ensure that the isotretinoin is not detoxed but stored. A bit like the Marmite effect ( @jaj )
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Quote from
Jiří on January 28, 2023, 12:39 am
@ourania "Whey protein = glutamate is very high"
Meat is not high in glutamate? Eggs are not high in glutamate? Think about it. People who are doing bodybuidling are eating high protein diet in general. Most of them eat 30-50g of animal protein every 3 hours and it's not like they consume 300g of whey protein powder. Most people use whey protein just after the workout and maybe in the morning in oats or something. So how can you say that whey protein is the problem? Especially like I said in kids that are doing bodybuilding they take crazy amounts of supplements. They put BCAAs/EAAs ito their water, they take glutamine as well. 10-20g a day is normal dose for them. That is not a problem? To think that you will take one dose of whey protein lets say 40g after workout and you block accutane detox with it is comical.. Everyone in bodybuidling/fitness knows that even if you are natural and don't take any steroids it's "normal" to have high creatinine and liver enzymes. Because they are stressing the body with a lot of food(protein) and with constantly breaking down muscle tissue with training. This alone can be a reason why people like that will have issues with accutane.. But to point on whey protein doesn't make any sense in this scenario...
@ourania "Whey protein = glutamate is very high"
Meat is not high in glutamate? Eggs are not high in glutamate? Think about it. People who are doing bodybuidling are eating high protein diet in general. Most of them eat 30-50g of animal protein every 3 hours and it's not like they consume 300g of whey protein powder. Most people use whey protein just after the workout and maybe in the morning in oats or something. So how can you say that whey protein is the problem? Especially like I said in kids that are doing bodybuilding they take crazy amounts of supplements. They put BCAAs/EAAs ito their water, they take glutamine as well. 10-20g a day is normal dose for them. That is not a problem? To think that you will take one dose of whey protein lets say 40g after workout and you block accutane detox with it is comical.. Everyone in bodybuidling/fitness knows that even if you are natural and don't take any steroids it's "normal" to have high creatinine and liver enzymes. Because they are stressing the body with a lot of food(protein) and with constantly breaking down muscle tissue with training. This alone can be a reason why people like that will have issues with accutane.. But to point on whey protein doesn't make any sense in this scenario...
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Quote from
Ourania on January 28, 2023, 12:50 am
@jiri
Maybe meat is high in glutamate but it does not compare. I can eat 400 g of meat no problem but even with a spoonful of whey powder I get bad glutamate symptoms. Maybe I am the only one on earth like this? Possible.
@jiri
Maybe meat is high in glutamate but it does not compare. I can eat 400 g of meat no problem but even with a spoonful of whey powder I get bad glutamate symptoms. Maybe I am the only one on earth like this? Possible.
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Quote from
Jiří on January 28, 2023, 12:58 am
@ourania look 10 sec on google https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7069532/
Btw I think that the problem can be because it's absorbed into the blood stream too fast. That's why I eat whey protein only in food. Mostly in oats in the morning. But just drink shake on empty stomach can be a issue for some for sure.
Btw now when I think about it. I was taking a lot of glutamine lately(like 20-30g) thinking I will heal my gut and feed my immune system and I have a lot of liver pain lately as well. So maybe I am just damaging my liver with it? Omg that's stupid..
@ourania look 10 sec on google https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7069532/
Btw I think that the problem can be because it's absorbed into the blood stream too fast. That's why I eat whey protein only in food. Mostly in oats in the morning. But just drink shake on empty stomach can be a issue for some for sure.
Btw now when I think about it. I was taking a lot of glutamine lately(like 20-30g) thinking I will heal my gut and feed my immune system and I have a lot of liver pain lately as well. So maybe I am just damaging my liver with it? Omg that's stupid..
Quote from
Inger on January 28, 2023, 1:42 am
Quote from
Jiří on January 28, 2023, 12:58 am
@ourania look 10 sec on google https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7069532/
Btw I think that the problem can be because it's absorbed into the blood stream too fast. That's why I eat whey protein only in food. Mostly in oats in the morning. But just drink shake on empty stomach can be a issue for some for sure.
Btw now when I think about it. I was taking a lot of glutamine lately(like 20-30g) thinking I will heal my gut and feed my immune system and I have a lot of liver pain lately as well. So maybe I am just damaging my liver with it? Omg that's stupid..
I think it is not wise to take whey protein at all... I only do natural protein. Glutamine isnt natural either... The liver pain is telling you something. I have a friend who has taken a lot of protein powders, whey, pea, whatever is in fashion, and lots off supplement. She is a health nut. But her liver is destroyed now.
Quote from
Jiří on January 28, 2023, 12:58 am
@ourania look 10 sec on google https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7069532/
Btw I think that the problem can be because it's absorbed into the blood stream too fast. That's why I eat whey protein only in food. Mostly in oats in the morning. But just drink shake on empty stomach can be a issue for some for sure.
Btw now when I think about it. I was taking a lot of glutamine lately(like 20-30g) thinking I will heal my gut and feed my immune system and I have a lot of liver pain lately as well. So maybe I am just damaging my liver with it? Omg that's stupid..
I think it is not wise to take whey protein at all... I only do natural protein. Glutamine isnt natural either... The liver pain is telling you something. I have a friend who has taken a lot of protein powders, whey, pea, whatever is in fashion, and lots off supplement. She is a health nut. But her liver is destroyed now.
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Quote from
Jiří on January 28, 2023, 2:02 am
@inger I will stop glutamine and whey protein for now and will see if the liver pain will go away. But I take glycine and will take again some taurine and I am also taking NAC. Glycine is just anti inflammatory and limiting amino acid in collagen synthesis and NAC with taurin should be liver protective.. NAC should also help with post covid. I think that this garbage is still somewhat affecting my body..
@inger I will stop glutamine and whey protein for now and will see if the liver pain will go away. But I take glycine and will take again some taurine and I am also taking NAC. Glycine is just anti inflammatory and limiting amino acid in collagen synthesis and NAC with taurin should be liver protective.. NAC should also help with post covid. I think that this garbage is still somewhat affecting my body..
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Quote from
Jenny on January 28, 2023, 3:21 am
@ourania thanks for your comment - always useful - so glutamate stores vA?? I hadn’t made this link. Isotretinoin is retinoic acid so is that stored? It can’t be turned into normal storage form of retinyl esters. I’m extremely interested in the connection between vA and glutamate. The fact that they are potentially synergistically toxic to liver (if glutamate in whey is the problem) is very interesting.
The problem substance is free glutamate apparently and in meat glutamate is bound. When meat is cooked slowly for a long time, as in a casserole, it becomes free glutamate. This is problematic. However, if meat is cooked quickly, such as chicken pieces or meatballs, it’s fine. That’s my understanding. I’ve been attempting to eat low glutamate for the past 3 months. No Marmite for me!
I’ve read Russell Blaylock’s book on excitotoxicity - the taste that kills. I would suggest that avoiding excess glutamate is a good idea for everyone. Too much added to our diet via processed foods, disguised under different names, starting 1960s but getting worse. Bob Miller says he’s seeing an epidemic of high glutamate.
Short little summary: https://functionalhealth4u.com/common-health-issue/glutamate/https://functionalhealth4u.com/common-health-issue/glutamate/
@ourania thanks for your comment - always useful - so glutamate stores vA?? I hadn’t made this link. Isotretinoin is retinoic acid so is that stored? It can’t be turned into normal storage form of retinyl esters. I’m extremely interested in the connection between vA and glutamate. The fact that they are potentially synergistically toxic to liver (if glutamate in whey is the problem) is very interesting.
The problem substance is free glutamate apparently and in meat glutamate is bound. When meat is cooked slowly for a long time, as in a casserole, it becomes free glutamate. This is problematic. However, if meat is cooked quickly, such as chicken pieces or meatballs, it’s fine. That’s my understanding. I’ve been attempting to eat low glutamate for the past 3 months. No Marmite for me!
I’ve read Russell Blaylock’s book on excitotoxicity - the taste that kills. I would suggest that avoiding excess glutamate is a good idea for everyone. Too much added to our diet via processed foods, disguised under different names, starting 1960s but getting worse. Bob Miller says he’s seeing an epidemic of high glutamate.
Short little summary: https://functionalhealth4u.com/common-health-issue/glutamate/https://functionalhealth4u.com/common-health-issue/glutamate/
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puddleduckOuraniaNavnAndrew BInger
Quote from
Jiří on January 28, 2023, 3:35 am
@jaj Well there is no question that added glutamate(MSG) in food is harmful. We are talking here more about amino acid glutamine converting into glutamate and cause excitotoxicity.. So even meat, eggs or any foods high in glutamine can be a problem if there is some issue with this glutamine/glutamate metabolism..
@jaj Well there is no question that added glutamate(MSG) in food is harmful. We are talking here more about amino acid glutamine converting into glutamate and cause excitotoxicity.. So even meat, eggs or any foods high in glutamine can be a problem if there is some issue with this glutamine/glutamate metabolism..
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