I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
isotretinoin therapy and whey protein supplementation: an underreported and hepatotoxic combination
@ourania what you mean by "hydrolysed like in whey or MSG" ? Not all whey proteins are hydrolyzed. Most people prefer whey isolate not hydrolyzed, because that process of hydrolisis gives the whey somewhat bitter taste. I was never using hydrolyzed whey protein because it is much more expensive than regular CFM(Cross Flow Microfiltration) whey that I was using.. Btw the other sentences are nice joke heh. Addicted to whey protein? you are confusing it with cheese(casein) addiction. That one is real for sure..
@jaj I'm very interested about the glutamate/vA connection as well. I know that I have a high glutamate/GABA ratio (tho GABA is still OK thankfully)
But I'm proned to night waking and can't go back to sleep with racing mind (glutamate most likely). What do you do in order to avoid excess glutamate ?
Also, I'm investigating the RBP/Retinol serum/B.Carotene serum + BAs pool relationship and I will have bloodwork done every month or 2 for the next year.
Very interesting @Mat about the blood work. I’m very interested in what serum retinol represents (possible new thread?), but I’ll focus on glutamate here.
I’m doing a low glutamate diet. I’ve been greatly helped in this by Michelle who I know from GS Network. I also read Russell Blaylock’s book ‘Excititoxins: the taste that kills’ and gained a lot of information. There are a number of sites describing low glutamate diets and a FB page that’s been useful. Basically most processed and restaurant food has a big question mark over it, so I’ve been eating basic home cooked whole foods. Meat needs to be quick cooked rather than slow cooked. Tomatoes, mushrooms and peas are naturally high in glutamate. I’ve found that beans are an issue and a paper posted recently on FB page confirmed that many were high glutamate (red lentils worst!). It’s quite a plain diet!
There is also a potential problem with high acetylcholine at synapses worsening high glutamate activity. Some people have a low amount of cholinesterase (the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine at the synapses) and/or a high exposure to cholinesterase inhibitors, such as nightshades. There is a FB group about this with links to much good information. I’ve cut right down on nightshades as I was eating a lot of potato.
The night before my second seizure I’d eaten a meal very high in glutamate. I’d already worked out that glutamate/GABA imbalance was probably an issue for me so this was probably an extremely stupid thing to do. However, I hadn’t fully appreciated the importance of glutamate in food and how it was in so many things, including some whole foods.
There are many reasons why the body may stop coping with glutamate from food as well as it has previously done. I have a long history of Marmite eating! But no history of seizures. So my extreme intolerance is new. I’m making a list of potential reasons currently (I love a list!) and can share as some point if interested. Research ongoing BUT at a slow pace because excess thinking…increases glutamate!!! Who knew?
I am interested in this glutamate GABA issue.... I think I tend to have unbalance too. I have reacted bad to bone broth, gelatine, nutritional yest, etc etc, many things that are on the list in this article...
Is it about what you have researched too, Jenny? I just googled a little and this is what I found. I am wondering how your diet looks like, what foods are you consuming now and have you noticed anything different yet?
https://www.holistichelp.net/blog/how-to-increase-gaba-and-balance-glutamate/
--->
Most Common Sources of Excitotoxins
Monosodium glutamate. Keep in mind that MSG is found in numerous places you may not be aware of like most processed food, fast food restaurants, and it may be a binder in medications, supplements, prescription drugs, over the counter drugs, IV fluids, vaccines, and as a growth enhancer sprayed on crops of food and produce called Auxigrow.
Aspartame (Nutrasweet)
Glutamate and aspartate are naturally occurring in wheat gluten, hydrolyzed yeast, and milk casein (which means any dairy product that contains casein has the potential for problems, but particularly cheese, which is a concentrated form of casein).
Other common food sources that contain excitotoxins include, hydrolyzed protein, hydrolyzed oat flour, or anything hydrolyzed, sodium caseinate, calcium caseinate, disodium caseinate, autolyzed yeast, yeast extract or anything else autolyzed, gelatin, glutamic acid, carrageenan or vegetable gum, guar gum, bouillon, kombu extract, anything malted, maltodextrin, many seasonings and spices, soy extract, soy protein or soy protein concentrate, or soy protein isolate, and soy sauce, textured protein, whey protein, whey protein concentrate or isolate.
The words natural flavor or natural flavoring on a package typically means it contains MSG or some other excitotoxin because they are used to stimulate your taste buds and artificially intensify the flavor.
Other foods or substances that contain excitotoxins and can damage nerves include anything fermented, protein fortified, or ultra-pasteurized or vitamin-enriched, corn syrup, bodybuilder formulas or protein formulas, caramel flavoring or coloring, flowing agents, dry milk, L-cysteine, egg substitutes, cornstarch, corn chips, citric acid if it is processed from corn, certain brands of cold cuts, hot dogs and sausages (even the ones in health food stores), many canned foods, pectin, pickles, any processed food, meats in the mainstream grocery store are often injected with them, tofu or other fermented soy products, xanthan gum or other gums.
Any nutritional supplement that contains glutamine. Glutamine is often recommended to heal the gut and increase GABA, but it first increases glutamate, and if you aren’t converting your glutamate to GABA for any of the many reasons we listed above, then you end up with nothing but a bunch of excess glutamate. Anyone who has an issue with excess glutamate should typically avoid supplementation with glutamine. Glutamine and glutamate convert back and for into one another.
Furthermore, some bacteria in the gut convert glutamine into glutamate. If one has an excess of these types of bacteria, which could be the case in SIBO, then glutamine supplementation may contribute to excess glutamate. Additionally, some gut bacteria eat glutamine, so in people who have SIBO, glutamine can cause the proliferation of SIBO, and toxins from SIBO can lead to excess glutamate.
It can also be a matter of potency. For example, I can consume yogurt every once in a while with no glutamate problems, but if I consume whey protein then I have immediate excess glutamate. This is because the level of glutamate in whey protein is much more concentrated than it is in yogurt. Anything that has a concentrated level of glutamate is going to be more problematic than something that has less potency.
Bone broth, which is commonly recommended for healing the gut is very high in glutamate, especially chicken bones. For example, I get an instant migraine from taking a little sip of bone broth from the glutamate content. I can’t even cook chicken or beef with the bone, or the meat will absorb the glutamate and give me a migraine. I can sometimes eat beef or buffalo cooked with the bone, but it varies. I do best if the bone is removed. So you should experiment to see if your meat cooked with bone is contributing to your glutamate imbalance and be aware that bone broth will increase your glutamate levels. Just slow-cooking meat for a long time, particularly braising, can increase glutamate.
Some common foods that are particularly high in glutamate are parmesan cheese, Roquefort cheese, tomato juice, grape juice, and peas. Walnuts, mushrooms, broccoli, tomatoes, and oysters are moderately high as well. Chicken and potatoes to a much lesser degree. If you eliminate all the other high glutamate substances, then you may not have a need to reduce some of these health-enhancing foods like broccoli, walnuts, and chicken. However, if your glutamate levels are really elevated, then these foods may be problematic as well, at least until you get levels reduced to some degree.
Protein powders, amino acid formulas, and collagen are high in glutamate. Branch chained aminos (leucine, isoleucine, and valine) taken in high concentrations can be excitotoxic.
I have had high stress a lot in my life. I have worked as a waitress all my adult life and also consumed quite a bit of wine as it belongs to our expertise.. and there is always plenty of great wine around. I dont overdrink and not every day but there is still a lot of wine present in my life. Too much. And then add late nights stressful work. I am glad I never really used protein powders. I did use Gelatin and Collagen for a while but stopped as they made me feel weird. My body just said no. Funny how our body usually do tell us, if we listen carefully 🙂
Quote from Jiří on January 29, 2023, 9:32 am@inger It would be easier to write what foods are not excitotoxic..
It's crazy I don't know what to eat anymore. I think I will just fast on water.
haha... @jiri I have learned fasting is not good either 🙂 🙂
Guess what I kinda think. We belong to the people that always has to do things in excess and that is why we have to suffer at some point ;). Like when you did eggs you had to do 5 each day instead of starting with 1 a day and then slowly increase... But yeah I am the same. I try out beans and I eat 2 cans in a day! Uh :). Instead of starting with a couple spoonful a day and slowly increase....
@inger haha. I’m a super moderate person (very cautious) but I’ve still managed to run myself into a mess!!
I’m eating a plain whole foods diet of chicken, fish, beef, lamb etc - but all quick cooked (but low heat) not slow cooked. So I’d have meat balls or a burger rather than a beef casserole. I eat eggs and goats cheese. Brown rice is a staple but I also eat pasta and some bread. My expert friend recommended some organic flatbreads. I try to make everything organic. I eat nuts and seeds but avoid walnuts. I eat fruit and vegetables, except those which are named as high glutamate such as tomatoes, mushrooms and peas. I cook cakes and crumbles from scratch. I may cheat once in a while but because my seizures are so scary I’ve been sticking to this plain organic ‘cook from scratch’ diet for a couple of months now. Michelle (my expert friend) says it’s a threshold. If you bring it down you can get away with cheats with no symptoms.