I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Jenny Jones from the "it is a metabolic issue" group
"Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally; he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic." -- Dostoyevsky
Quote from Jessica2 on August 28, 2024, 9:16 am@r-2 I'd cash app you money today if you could provide proof Andrew advised a single person to take a multivitamin or cod liver oil. I won't be doing that though because he has never done that.
I think you are confusing him with Garrett Smith, who actually less than a decade ago, WAS telling his clients to take vitamin A, quite a bit of it actually. He admits to this. If we should be suspicious of anyones business model,this is it right here. He pushed VA for years and now he has the detox answers for those he poisoned. But don't get antsy though, because his low VA regimen takes AT LEAST 5 years to bear fruit! What a great business model! 10 years of money freely flowing into his pockets!
Getting angry at advice you freely took is fruitless. I took WAPFs advice and ate cod liver oil, for a while I was angry about it too, but short of spending a lot to sue them and probably losing, what else can I do but move on? At least I haven't died of glioblastoma like many of them have (Lord willing). Your anger here is certainly misplaced.
By all means let's make it all about Garrett. Forget recognizing that Jenny wrote that note intending to help people by publishing her experience. Why would someone anyone want to keep that private?
Curious what you recommended to people back when you were into WAPF? Why would you say Garrett's work takes 5 years to help people. I suspect the process is longer for all of us with or without Garrett's help. Have you noticed any improvements in Grant this last year? I am 20 months in with consistent improvement. I went from unable to walk without a walker back to work landscaping in my first 6 months with Garrett. I went from teeth grinding howling pain 20 to 30 times daily to sleeping 10.5 hours uninterrupted in my first 4 months.
But for sure, you and Andrew have much better ideas and much better results on your private group blog that you claim is a public forum. For sure you have much better and faster and more numerous testimonials from all the people you pull from this blog with advice about how they need to not go low vitamin A.
Can we see those testimonials please? Can you repost them here? After all it is a public forum right? I am sure all your paying and non-paying clients would be eager to publish here.
Quote from Andrew B on August 28, 2024, 8:31 amJenny Jones nearly died from a seizure partly because of the too low vitamin A approach. She's spent 2.5 years figuring this out to be salicylates. You have no right to post a screenshot from a private group that I'm the Admin for. It's private to retain the privacy of discussions of people who need help and are ill. There are other salicylates like unpeeled courgette/zucchini that arent necessarily high in beta carotenoids. Shame on you for trying to mock someone who has gone through such difficulties. Somebody who freely gave loads of her time to help people in the LYL network, this forum and my group.
I doubt she would ever use more than half a teaspoon which is a 1/6 of what you said: 558 IUs of Vitamin A.
She never got red eyes from carotenoids in general. Her red eye has now gone after just over 2.5 months whilst still eating the RDA for Vitamin A.
Many of us nearly died Andrew. Excited melllodramatic claims with very meager results does not make your ideas look successful. If you are successful, then open your PRIVATE GROUP to the public or at least publish testimonials we can all see. Publish them here please.
Absolutely agree that all toxins matter. As toxist as some might claim that is to say.
So Andrew, what was Jenny's point in posting this on your private blog? Was it to help others figure out what is going on with them? Was it to get input to help her figure out what is going on with her? Why would she not want to do the same here on this blog? Is it because she is afraid of a small group of 10 or 15 people contrary to Grant's ideas who have invaded and overwhelmed the blog with spurious claims doubting Grant's factual evidence? Or because she does not want to be bothered with 10 or 15 people executing on troll like behavior as if they were full time paid operatives in the 77th Brigade?
Again Andrew. Why are you on this blog? In one post you claim that going low vitamin A is the best thing you have ever done and in the next 30 posts you claim we need to eat vitamin A foods to help detox it, that vitamin A is a nutrient not a toxin and whatever other spurious claim and ad hominem about Garrett or anyone who refuses to make ad hominem attacks against Garrett?
So why are you here? What is your stated purpose and goal for being here?
BTW, did Garrett hire Jenny to help him with vitamin A and to help him build his paradigm or his network? There is a fine line between being helpful and imposing your will on someone. Similar to what we see here on this blog. Hilarious that you claimed credibility here since you and the top 10 posters here disagree with Grant. That makes my point so much more clearly than anything I will ever write.
Also, why do you keep trying to get us to bow to Jenny's expert opinions as a "research scientist" with a PhD? She is a geneticist, right? Is that not the science that Harriman family (along with Morgans, Rockefellers, et al) funded back before and during WWII? Back then they called it Eugenics. If Edwin Black is right (and he is far better referenced that the tripe thrown up here), then they changed the name after Hitler went all and used their US eugenics legal framework to kills and maim more people than even the US was doing. I wonder what name the wealthy families chose for their new science to replace the evil sounding word "eugenics?"
Oh yeh. Genetics.
Wait. Are these not all the same families who brought us all the fraudulent science of the pharma cartels? and nutritional science fraud? Are these same families paying you directly or indirectly? Or are you going to tell us that lithium is a bad idea to treat accutane survivors?
There was a person on the Ray Peat forum who became allergic to salicylate and went into anaphylactic shock. At the time he was only consuming orange juice and milk. After that he only consumed milk.
Quote from lil chick on August 28, 2024, 9:13 amI'm not saying it to be mean, and what I'm saying isn't choosing sides here.
There really is no privacy on the web.
I get it that it's annoying for tales to be told out of school and bad form.
I also hope that no one on so-called private sites... really thinks they are private.
Well said. Beside that, I might guess Jenny's whole point of publishing on Andrew's public er now it is private again facebook group is to help others and get feedback for herself. I wonder why anyone would feel that doing that here is problematic. Is it perhaps the same reason why so many people giving testimonials on twitter and LYL boards do not post them here? More and more people are telling me they do not want to deal with the harassment of the pro-vitamin A crowd on Grant's blog. Brings to mind Andrew's claim that he and the top 10 commenters on this blog disagree with Grant. I wonder why people who disagree with Grant would spend so much time on his blog and become the top 10 commenters? That takes a lot of time. What would be the point?
Quote from Jessica2 on August 28, 2024, 9:21 am@r-2 again you really should be asking Garrett Smith about HIS money flow, as he was pushing vitamin A for years, now he has all the answers to the people he "poisoned"; only it will take them 5 to 10 years to detox!!! 5 to 10 years of money flowing into his pocket right?
Still making it about Garrett. So you were never into WAPF? Curious that so many of the folk doing low vitamin A are the people who worked the hardest at nutrition and healthy diets all these years. Are you going to accuse them of nefarious intent going back decades too? Garrett has plenty of options besides. The vast majority of us doing #toxicbileparadigm are do it yourself folk who get all we need free on twitter, youtube and rumble. I did not pay a dime my first 3 months. I only started paying in after I got positive results that tracked directly to Garrett's ideas that I argued were lame. Until they worked. And it did not take 5 to 10 years to get to that point. And yes, I will most likely keep at this much longer than 10 years with any luck. And during that time will show gratitude any way I can.
Garrett is not being the opportunist here. Garrett is not exhibiting troll like behavior scouring this blog looking for clients. He does not need to. His testimonials are mounting fast. Word of mouth is spreading the paradigm faster than any marketing can.
How is that testimonial / word of mouth thing working out for the egg selling "moderate vitamin A intake" paradigm? Can we see some of those testimonials?
Quote from Jessica2 on August 28, 2024, 9:31 amLet me finally add that I don't believe G. Smith did this on purpose; he made an honest mistake. But he is held up as a paragon of low VA crusaders and as a saint.
However, he's made more bank at this than anyone; as his current $5,000 per consult pricetag will attest to.
The only thing anyone holds him the paragon of is an excellent clinician working with excellent researchers and testing ideas on himself. He also gets consistent and excellent results that are giving him a larger following of people writing amazing testimonials expressing gratitude to Grant and Garrett. People who repeatedly tell me they do not want to post it here lest they have to deal with trolls.
You might want to consider that Garrett is still giving office hours freely to any and all of the members who take a consult with his other staff members. If I sign up for a consult with Hope, Kelsey or Nathan, I get to work with them one on one and get lab results, advice and work with their weekly office hours zoom calls. I also get to work with Garrett's weekly office hours zoom calls and he is getting to see everyone's lab work.
If Garrett does not raise that price, then everyone will just ignore the other excellent staff and sign up with Garrett. I know I wanted to when I started. I am glad I started with Nathan. He did an excellent job.
Garrett is making far less than you make him out to be. He is giving away all his insights for free on youtube an twitter for those serious enough to study on their own. He sent me links to a growing library of pertinent studies long before I paid my first dime. If Garrett respects anything about me it is that like @r-2 I read the pertinent studies BEFORE I argue with him to question his theories.
But go ahead and dismiss Garrett and Grant as if they have done nothing worthwhile here. Pretend it was all a mistake and will fade away once people realize that we just needed to metabolize our poisons better.
What you cannot pretend is that you have a growing client list giving you amazing testimonials that prove out any single idea you put forth here.
Which brings me back to why are you here? Why are you not starting an anti Garrett and anti Grant blog somewhere and criticizing us with your insightful barbs?
Quote from Jessica2 on August 28, 2024, 12:47 pm@joe you're the one that mentions GS in every post. It's like you're a recruitment officer for love your liver. Do you get commission?
I am responding to your ad hominem attacks and pointing to a growing group of people with far greater and better experience and research than you exhibit here.
Quote from Eio on August 28, 2024, 12:23 pmThere was a person on the Ray Peat forum who became allergic to salicylate and went into anaphylactic shock. At the time he was only consuming orange juice and milk. After that he only consumed milk.
Ouch. Painted in a corner hard.
Someone did similar on LYL couple years ago. Got to where she could only eat mango. Whole group started telling her how bad mango is and tried to get her to stop. Blog admin had to stop them and point out that not eating is surest way to die. Eat what we can and work to find and fix deficiencies that are stopping us from eating other foods easily. Took some doing but she did better.
Have had similar experience in 1990's. Not that narrow of a corner. Not an easy problem to solve. Wanted parenteral nutrition until a sane chiropractor / naturopath talked me off that ledge. Took a year. Biggest help was an MD who turned me on to books about helping POW's recover after they were starved.
Quote from Jessica2 on August 28, 2024, 9:33 amQuote from r on August 28, 2024, 9:31 amQuote from Jessica2 on August 28, 2024, 9:21 am@r-2 again you really should be asking Garrett Smith about HIS money flow, as he was pushing vitamin A for years, now he has all the answers to the people he "poisoned"; only it will take them 5 to 10 years to detox!!! 5 to 10 years of money flowing into his pocket right?
at least he doesn't claim "it is metabolic issue and I dont know sh*t about it yet" like Andrew and his comrades do
So he makes >more< money off this than anyone, has by your standards poisoned people in the past, but at least you agree with him currently on certain ideas? Yikes.
This is misleading. It also ignores that Garrett is getting vastly better and more frequent good results than you and your ideas are.