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Kids taking VA in a multivitamin
Yes I would never suggest someone supplements with these minerals. The two people that near fasted were not just restricting zinc in their diet but I guess the guy that avoided beef provides some evidence for your hypothesis. I think you're onto something though, it makes a lot of sense that excess metals of any kind present in the nervous system will make us much more sensitive to EMF.
The solution lies in understanding what is causing the lack of mineral regulation.
Manganese intoxication and chronic liver failure are associated with strikingly similar clinical, imaging, and pathological abnormalities. As manganese is primarily cleared by the liver, inadequate elimination of manganese absorbed from the normal diet may lead to manganese overload in patients with liver disease. We report a significant elevation of blood manganese concentration in 3 patients with biopsy-proved hepatic cirrhosis who exhibited neurological dysfunction and characteristic abnormal signal hyperintensity in the globi pallidi and substantia nigra on T1-weighted magnetic resonance imaging. We speculate that manganese accumulation in the brain accounts for the magnetic resonance imaging abnormalities and contributes to neurological dysfunction in patients with liver disease.
Obviously, normal liver and kidney function is necessary for mineral regulation.
Quote from Jiří on August 21, 2020, 11:21 pm@tim-2 hair test is very easy to do type of biopsy. Yes it is useless for people who can't read the results. Because when you have something low or high that doesn't mean you are toxic in it like in case of calcium and just because your copper is low or even very low doesn't mean you are deficient.. People that can read hair tests and know where to look on what ratios of minerals they can see what is probably going on in the body. Especially when you have more tests and you can compare them what changed etc.. during the time when you were doing A and B etc.. It will give you much better picture than in most cases useless blood tests. Blood tests are good only to measure systemic proteins like ferritin, ceruloplasmin and hormones. Which is great info when you can look at that and the hair test together.. The problem is that people don't understand how important minerals are. They think that if your main electrolyte in the blood are in the range. You are good. Which is crazy, because it is like 1950 thinking, but doctors still don't know better.. Minerals run the show, but they still don't test for it. They simply don't give a fuck. Everybody thinks that if you live in country where you can buy what you want for food you can't be deficient in something and they will not start testing for minerals. It doesn't make them any money to say someone that he should take this, this and this mineral and stay away from this foods high in this mineral etc.. That's how it should be. But never will be lol..
I know with zinc that there isn't much point testing serum levels and with hair testing, the science shows that it's completely unreliable, it doesn't give useful data. The thing is is that aside from diagnosing issues like Wilson's disease there isn't much point in mineral testing. It's crazy to think that one can balance minerals through dietary approaches. Yes, in situations where someone has clear toxicity then it is important to avoid consuming the metal in the short term however the correct approach is to restore the body to a level of health where it can regulate minerals correctly. When the liver and kidneys are working correctly and our physiology is fairly ok our body will manage levels of metals correctly throughout the body and the metals will be present in the correct form. The exception is genetic hemochromatosis and Wilson's disease. If the liver and kidneys are not working correctly and metals like copper and manganese are not being eliminated in urine and bile sufficiently then the only solution is to restore kidney and liver health. It does make sense to avoid consuming excess high copper, zinc or manganese foods to make it easier for our body but the main approach should be improving our endogenous mineral management systems.
I'll also point out that manganese and zinc do not get stored in our body so we need a constant intake, the focus needs to be on regulation of them in the body. Copper and iron are both stored in the liver so we don't need such a regular intake of them.
If one's physiology is dysfunctional copper and iron could impair liver health and copper, iron, zinc and manganese levels could all have to potential to be toxic and cause damage through the body.
Sometimes in the past, I could feel electricity coming out of my iPad. Not much, but enough to feel it and it was unpleasant. This has entirely stopped after taking lipophilic thiamine or some Japanese probiotics.
I think this is a vitality sign. If your energy is high (mitochondrial benefits of thiamine - borrowed energy from the probiotic beasts maybe?) you can repulse the energy of the iPad.
I have discovered this because I use the device as a timer for my exercises. When I have been at them for about 10 mins, I find it difficult to make contact with the iPad. To rectify this I have to take a few very deep breaths.
In fact now my energy is such that non only I do not feel electricity coming from various devices, but it is annoying that they do not want to obey my touch! Galling when I am cooking and the range which has no knobs but obeys (?!?) by touch does not obey at all.
Mind you, this only happens just after my exercises. In normal life I am normal.
I agree that none should ever supplement anything except if 100% certain that one is missing a key nutrient which cannot be given at the moment with food (by example some children may be deficient in calcium and with very low A diet it would be very difficult to correct that but even then it is better to first get toxins out before eventually supplementing as it can mess with the metabolism).
Concerning zinc (and other minerals) in excess there is a vast litterature (cannot go and copy paste everything you can look for it if interested). For example, type 1 diabetes is usually thought to be a zinc deficiency state. However, a quick search and talk with people having it shows that 1. Zinc supplementation usually worsens the disease 2. Zinc accumulates particularly well especially in beta cells with "autoimmune attack" following and 3. Animal studies exist where the animals are basically given diabetes simply by high zinc supplementation.
As I know someone with type 1 diabetes doing the very low A diet for 18 months now without cheating (rice beef and some white potatoes and black beans) and without definite success it would be interesting to test what happens if one drastically reduces the zinc component of the diet for, say, 1-2 months and "chelates" it with Volvic at the same time. If anybody with type 1 diabetes reads this I guess it would be a good option to test (without supplementing copper etc, just restricring zinc.). Will keep you informed if possible.
Quote from Dino on August 22, 2020, 12:11 pm@jiri: I understand . May I ask the kind of symptoms you have? Electrosensitivity or other? Did you ever do a urine zinc test? It may be interesting to know your morning urine zinc levels.
It may be that I am wrong that's why I ask this but for now 100% of electrosensitive people responded to zinc detox so as far as I see emf-related sensibility/problems are zinc-related. And I am still sure many people worldwide are loaded with zinc (maybe also other minerals such as copper etc.) due to the "western" idea that supplementing is the way to go. Once again here in Switzerland many take zinc supplements every autumn/winter to battle "the flu" and now "Corona" and it is given to children like candies...
Interesting, by the way, is the fact that copper kills many pathogens on contact.
But that copper needs to be in bioavailable form bounded to transport proteins. If your are low in copper transport protein you can eat all copper you want, but it will be just stored in the liver(latter in other organs like brain) damaging them and and you will have symptoms of copper deficiency. But toxicity in the organs... Copper metabolism is somewhat complicated and I will not try to explain in to every single person here. I deal with this mineral thing for some time. It was ruining my life for very long time. So I did some research on this. But I never read things about zinc that you talking about here. You can induce copper deficiency or other imbalances by taking 100-200mg of zinc for longer periods for sure. But show me some paper where they say zinc will be stored in nerves and cause issues like you are saying???
@jiri: you have not answered any of my basic questions but nevermind let's stop this discussion here since it's a deadend.
Concerning "papers" if that is what is the most important for you, you can find tons of them in the book "The Invisible Rainbow" from M. Firstenberg.
By the way there is plenty of evidence that zinc accumulates in the body, particularly in the nerves, pancreas, and brain.
Interesting argument, I am sure that taking high amount of zinc will end up in copper deficiency and zinc overload.
Here is my hypothesis, I might be partially right or wrong:
I don't think that the general population is getting an excessive zinc intake. Especially in Switzerland most people eat red meat only twice a week and don't take supplements.
I was on a modern Switzerland diet until couple years ago. Lots of bread, pasta, potatoes, rösti, cheeses and ham. I always had white spots on my nails (supposedly sing of zinc deficiency). A couple of months after switching to a high red meat diet all white spots on my nails disappeared.
Regarding EMF sensibility my hypothesis is that the subject was copper toxic, avoiding zinc will supposedly stop copper detoxification so there will be less copper in the blood. Less copper in the blood will possibly result in less EMF sensibility.
Instead by eating a high zinc diet after a long time of zinc deficiency will lead to copper detoxification -> the copper will be pulled out from tissues into the blood. High serum copper will possibly cause strong EMF sensibility.
I don't know how to interpret what you are saying about the high zinc content of urine though.
If somebody is interested in mineral balancing and detoxification, I suggest taking a read on drlwilson.com website.
At the risk of sounding pretty foolish -- I'm moderately certain I have zinc toxicity right now, as of a day ago.
I'd been fine for about a year on 37mg/day zinc supplements (two 15 mg and 7mg in a multimineral), and checked my serum levels of zinc and copper twice a year. But for about two weeks now I've been eating a pound of beef a day, which has maybe 17mg, and upped to three 15 mg supplements a few days, and even substituted a 23mg lozenge a couple times.
Ideally I wouldn't have to learn about overdosing the hard way, but hopefully someone else can benefit! So I'll report my symptoms here:
- Tongue feels burnt
- Taste of metal or blood in mouth
- Worst day: strong chills and weakness, overheating, heart pounding
- Worst day: moderate pain in one forearm for hours
- Unusually stressed, especially by body pains or light
- Often waking after 1-3 hours sleep
- Not hungry
- Ache in gut
- Feces did look unusually orange a couple times
- (uncertain if related to zinc) Occasional headache
- (uncertain if related to zinc) Burning feeling after ultraviolet light when I'm usually much more tolerant
From what I've read, I don't think I'll need emergency treatment and I expect it will subside over the next week.