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Liver Flushes
Quote from Jiří on July 3, 2024, 1:44 am@janelle525 "I believe the oil and citrus mixture creates the bile stones as proven by someone who did it with red dye"
This theory again? Really? If that was the case people would have the same stuff coming out EVERY SINGLE TIME they do the flush. Which is not the case obviously in fact it is the exact opposite.. Liver flush is simply mechanical flushing of bile ducts in the liver and gallbladder. I really don't know what is so hard to understand about this. There is no magic. The problem is when people don't have results they expected for whatever reason and after that start to spam all over the internet what BS it is.. Most people 1. don't have perfect conditions for the flush to be a good one. That means be very relaxed(so the liver and mainly gallbladder is not contracted..) and most importantly 2. most people need several flushes to start pushing old garbage from the bile ducts to the gallbladder and out of the liver to the intestine.. You were pregnant. That alone is huge stress on your body +you have high estrogen during pregnancy and as we know estrogen lowers bile production. So you really couldn't do the flush in worse time.. I did most of my flushes during the winter when the body is also in stress + the tissues of the body are contracted.. The best time for the flush would be during the summer on vacation somewhere in warm weather. Where you just relax under the sun all day. Your mind is calm and your body really fully relaxed.. I had just from that without any flushes crazy bile dumps.. I didn't even needed to do the flushes to make the bile go out of my liver to the intestine and out to the toilet.. Flush is helpful in that if you simply have so much thick sludge and maybe even already calcified stuff in your liver to push it out with some force. Otherwise it will stay there if you just eat normal low fat diet. It simply can't be forced out. Soluble fiber is good so the bile that has already good flow is not reabsorbed. But it will do nothing for stucked garbage in the bile ducts and in the gallbladder.. So in ideal world you live low stress low toxin exposure life style so your bile flow is good and there is no chance to develop thick sludge or even stones and you just eat fiber to eliminate old bile full of toxins and maybe like people in Italy, Greece etc. drink small glass of olive oil to really keep the bile going. That is like mini flush basically, but even that is not needed I think and I think that is perfect scenario.. But for people who lived unhealthy life for decades and their bile ducts and gallbladder is really clogged up. There is no way to fix it without full liver flush protocol repeated many many times. Taking magnesium, good amount of fruit(malic acids) to slowly soften everything that is calcified in the bile ducts and the liver and slowly push it out.. But during that time you simply need to lower stress as much as possible. Because like I said if the body is not fully relaxed it can't work or with very minimal results..
I believed in it back then! It was a nice sounding story. Unfortunately Andreas Moritz still died pretty young despite his use of them. I don't think it's a cure for much other than sludge and possibly to expel the hardened stones which can absolutely get stuck and cause an life threatening emergency. People may report feeling 'lighter' afterwards, but then I'm sure life builds up again and they need to do it again. Just not worth it to me. Soluble fiber works everyday without nausea or anything uncomfortable and Karen Hurd has helped people with gallbladder stones save their gallbladder, it is just a more slow process than a sudden flushing out which is not without risk. I agree that if one were to do it you need to be able to relax into it. Might not be possible to relax into it if you are really sick though.
@janelle525 nobody said that the liver flush will fix all health issues and this argument with Moritz dying despite doing flushes = it doesn't work is ridiculous. The amount of stories on the internet from people about how the flushes turned their life around is just crazy and they have zero reasons to lie about it. I would love from people like you to speak differently about the flush because all you are doing by saying how you don't believe in it, how it is dangerous etc. is just making some people not trying it and instead they just do what their doctors will say which is basically just we will cut your gallbladder out nothing else can be done. So you are not helping anyone with this. So pls think about it and be more open minded..
@jiri Well the bean protocol does save people's gallbladders AND helps them live longer, Andreas was missing a huge piece of the puzzle.... bile absorption. We know now. He may have lived longer had he known. I do have an open mind, that's why I tried it. I just know it isn't without risk. I'd recommend people try the bean protocol first for at least 6 months, if it doesn't work and their ultrasound shows many stones and they are scared they will have to remove it, then sure try the flush.
The J's going at it, I say you two meet up for a live stream wrestling showdown, bring your beans and your olive oil!
All kidding aside this J has something to say.
I've done about 12 liver flushes and I did feel like it resolved my chronic constipation which was the main reason for doing them. I don't know for sure because I also think changing my diet was a big part of it. If I eat beef or any hard grainy things like granola it's get stuck and it be like two week of hell to flush it all out.
What I noticed during the later end of the flushes was that I got less stones forming. I stopped for a year and got an ultrasound recently and my gallbladder was nice and round and black in the center(no sludge or stones), liver showed now abnormalities. This made me feel better about the state of the two organs as far as sludge and stones goes. For what ever reason I decided to do another flush and to my surprise I produced relatively big stones.
From these experiences I have a feeling that the better the bile flow, the more stones are formed. I think doing the flushes every two weeks or a month, with a diet of a good amount of fats, likely taxed my bodies ability to make bile and therefore the flushes produced less and less stones with little time or resources to make more fast enough. I think you both are right, stones can be flushed out and at the same time the bile may also form stones from the olive oil as well.
Do I feel like it helped clear out my gallbladder and liver, possible, although I wish I had a full ultrasound prior to flushing to know for sure. Do I feel the flushed help my health overall, it's hard to say but there are indications that I'm not as healthy as I was prior to the flushes, whish has been about 18 months since I started flushing. For one I don't feel the strength and endurance in my weight lifting as I did. Perhaps my body is just aging I don't know. I still have digestion and food tolerance issues. So it's hard to say the flush really helped me. I think all the epsom salt has a net negative effect on my health the more I take it. Seeing that my GB and liver is clear and after my last two flushes seem to take more out of me than previous, I'm done with flushes for a long while unless I see something in an ultrasound later down the road.
As for the bean protocol, first time I've heard of it, don't know the idea behind it but binding the bile for excretion is the main idea in a lot of detox protocols like mold and heavy metals detox. But whether soluble fiber missing from the Andreas Moritz protocol is crucial for ridding stone is unclear. It would definitely help the detox, but how it slows the process of ridding stones by re-absorption of stone forming material from the flush is unknown. It's possible but might not be as significant.
btw I was eating a lot of black beans for a bit following Grants diet, but nowadays I don't seem to do well with beans any longer.
@john Interesting! Yes the J's are going at it! The bean protocol is very specific in that you have to eliminate all stimulants and refined sugar including perfumes as they are estrogenic. The beans are to be eaten at least 3 times a day and whenever stress hormones are increased or excess hormones are felt (very good for women!). The soluble fiber absorbs the estrogen and adrenaline floating around in the intestines. It also can absorb pesticides because Karen Hurd's daughter was dying of liver failure as a toddler after being poisoned with a pesticide and she turned it around with soluble fiber and now she's a healthy adult. Karen also reversed thyroid disease and was able to grow back her own thyroid after having part of it removed for Grave's disease she needs no thyroid medication.
I won't say much more about the flushes, I think they could seriously deplete someone after many of them. Bile is a very important fluid in our body. I do wonder why you ended up not tolerating beans vs tolerating them better. I'm the oppposite I couldn't eat them at all without IBS cramping 4 days later. Now I eat them 3 times a day and doing the best I have in many yrs. I think emotions also play a role, I've done serious emotional work and feeling the most supported and free at the moment. When we hold onto unforgiveness or resentment I think it creates toxicity in the body. It's why someone could be diagnosed with breast cancer soon after their child dies. Emotions need to be felt and processed.
@janelle525
I have been eating Kashi Autumn Wheat cereal for the fiber for the past year but it's mostly insoluble fiber and 15% soluble and lack the nutrients of beans. Although I'm thinking about giving it a break from the wheat as The Gut Health Protocol is telling me I should stay away from wheat.
What kind of beans do you eat and how to get them in a can or some other way? Maybe I'll give them another try. I was doing canned black beans from Costco and from el Pollo Loco burritos which I know comes with a lot of other things I don't want.
Yes stress is definitely a factor in my life.
Quote from John on July 3, 2024, 1:31 pm@janelle525
I have been eating Kashi Autumn Wheat cereal for the fiber for the past year but it's mostly insoluble fiber and 15% soluble and lack the nutrients of beans. Although I'm thinking about giving it a break from the wheat as The Gut Health Protocol is telling me I should stay away from wheat.What kind of beans do you eat and how to get them in a can or some other way? Maybe I'll give them another try. I was doing canned black beans from Costco and from el Pollo Loco burritos which I know comes with a lot of other things I don't want.
Yes stress is definitely a factor in my life.
Oh yeah I'd stay away from cereal, I haven't eaten any cereal in yrs. Nor any kind of granola, I have been super kind to my body. I only eat quality pasta, well cooked rice, or beans, and sometimes bread. I haven't tried oats yet because those used to cause so much IBS. But I'm actually eating kamut pasta and that used to cause it too, but it's not anymore.
I soak black beans over night and pressure cook them for 10 minutes. They are delicious!
I have to be better. I do eat a lot of pasta so Kamut looks like a winner. Thank you.
If cholelithiasis or choledocholithiasis is present it's inadvisable to do the olive oil Epsom salt flush.
The stones that are expelled after the flush are not from the gallbladder, they form in the intestinal tract. Any benefits of the flush are probably from expelling bile from the body.
Consumption of fibre enables bile acid sequestration and excretion from the body. I'm not aware of evidence that bile based toxins are also sequestered but it seems likely.
When stomach acid production and pancreatic juice production is normal, MASLD and cholestasis is not present and bile production and flow is normal, SIBO is not present and peristalsis is normal, less deconjugation of glucuronidated bile based toxins occurs and less enterohepatic recycling of said toxins tends to occur. In other words when we are healthy toxin excretion can occur naturally even when low/normal amounts of fibre are consumed.