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Liver Flushes
Quote from tim on July 13, 2024, 3:56 pmYeah eating meat only will place significant stress on the liver and kidneys.
Re the dry eyes have you tested your serum retinol level recently?
I mentioned zinc not to imply you would benefit from it, I'm just interested in other's experiences with it. It's just something I've been researching recently.
Zinc deficiency causes liver dysfunction, insulin resistance, autoimmunity, magnesium deficiency, vitamin A dysregulation, dysregulation of stomach acid production, dysregulation of endogenous choline synthesis, thyroid dysfunction, skin and hair problems, gut dysfunction, adrenal problems, high blood pressure, brain fog and fatigue. It's not easily tested for and recent research indicates high rates of insufficiency in Western countries.
It appears that zinc insufficiency (due to both hyperzincuria and low dietary intakes) may be close to universal in those with liver dysfunction which is most people with chronic health conditions.
I have not tested in 6 months, I will try to get that soon before I started adding a bunch of retinol back in (if I do). Yes I think zinc is very important, I just never felt that well supplementing it in the past so I hesitate. On paper it always looks like something so good to supplement. We may need more when detoxing retinol for sure.
Quote from John on July 13, 2024, 1:53 pmQuote from Janelle525 on July 13, 2024, 1:27 pmQuote from John on July 13, 2024, 11:14 amQuote from Janelle525 on July 13, 2024, 10:56 amQuote from John on July 13, 2024, 9:04 amQuote from Janelle525 on July 13, 2024, 8:49 amQuote from John on July 13, 2024, 8:34 amQuote from Janelle525 on July 13, 2024, 8:17 amQuote from tim on July 13, 2024, 7:29 amHi @janelle525,
Thank you. How are you and your husband doing since we last spoke?
Random question, what is your opinion of zinc supplementation? Have you ever taken zinc for a significant period of time?
There's some interesting research on the implications and frequency of zinc deficiency some of it quite recent that I've been reading recently.
I'm doing pretty good! Just one concerning symptom: dry eyes. They got super bad in the last month particularly sitting under the vent blowing AC on me while on the laptop. But even after sleep they'd feel bone dry. I may have gone too low in fat? I've been eating black beans three times a day, kamut pasta, white rice, beef, chicken, some cheese, and I've been using olive oil instead of butter in the last few days. The only supplement I take is a little vitamin C, and trialing some selenium. I figured with the beef I was fine on zinc but it's possible I need more. I don't really have any other symptoms besides my buttcrack rash that has gotten better since the beef beans and rice diet.
My husband has lost 50 lbs on the carnivore diet in 5 months. His kidney function tests weren't looking so good though... I think it'd be better with some beans. He is convinced he needs to stick to the meat mainly, but he does eat meat chili every now and then.
Dry eyes are probably from something you are ingesting. I get dry eyes from different supplements, berberine especially, but also from some probiotics, flaxseed oil, wheatgrass and some others. Stop and starts confirms it so in my case I'm very certain.
I hope it's not the beans! I'm having near perfect stool every morning for the first time in my life!
I know the feeling! I've had constipation for all my life up until a couple years ago from diet change and supplements, and possibly the liver flushes.
I would just rule them out one by one, possibly a two together could make do it. I would start with selenium, then vitamin C, olive oil, then cheese. It may be the brand an not necessarily the item itself as it is with the probiotics.
ACV was another one does it, with flashing artifacts, the worse feeling for my eyes, had to keep my eyes closed and rest. Amoxicillin did the same.
My guess would be maybe the ACV, I've used this brand of vitamin C for several yrs and the dry eyes started when I switched my diet to beef rice and beans and quit OJ and a lot of dairy. I started using ACV on my rice and beans because it tasted way better. Someone suggested oxalates in the beans, but I don't have any other symptoms of oxalates.
Ah ha, it's most likely the ACV then. If so then we have similar health profiles, what works for you, may work for me or vice versa. We should keep this in mind and follow each others progress. Although OJ, even fresh squeezed gives me a an uncomfortable reaction, not sure if it's the spike in blood sugar or something else about it. Haven't had any OJ since about 5 years now.
Will definitely trial no ACV. I've been meaning to. I also realized I've been sitting under a vent that blasts cold air on me for hours a day. I moved where I sit today and it feels better, but my eyeballs are still sore.
I'm guessing the AC is just secondary and likely won't be an issue once the main cause is corrected. I think it might be worse in hotter weather where more moisture can evaporate quicker, just a theory though. Unless you're sitting at a very low angle, or even laying down reading or watching something, that is known to give me dry eyes on it's own.
Yeah it does feel like there is more going on. I never had this problem before.
Yes a zinc supplement can cause nausea. It's not necessarily a sign of toxicity though. It can just be from not taking it with food or from a single dose being too high.
Quote from tim on July 13, 2024, 9:11 pmYes a zinc supplement can cause nausea. It's not necessarily a sign of toxicity though. It can just be from not taking it with food or from a single dose being too high.
I may try it again. I wanted to ask you if you've seen the glucose protocol thread? What is your opinion on it? Many in the raypeatforum are trying it.
When you quote without tagging it doesn't send an email notification, just a heads up.
I haven't seen it. On this forum?
@tim-2 Here is one of the main threads on RPF https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/cure-depression-and-more-with-glucose.53067/ There are many other threads now there
On this forum from Janelle https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/your-brain-needs-glucose/
Thanks @orion. The RPF link didn't work for me though.
The issue is insulin resistance and dysglycemia.
Low brain glucose levels aren't caused from eating too little glucose.
Consumption of glucose or starch helps because increasing intake of calories from glucose will decrease intake of calories from fat and fructose and relieve liver stress and dysfunction leading to improved insulin sensitivity and glucose regulation.
In TCM white rice porridge containing small amounts of chicken and vegetables like cabbage is the traditional food for invalids. This minimises stress on the gut and liver and supplies calories mostly in the form of glucose.
Bread and chicken soup is the Western equivalent.
Sucrose is not as demanding on the liver as fat consumption. It is half glucose and some fructose is metabolized to glucose and other energy substrates. A portion of the fructose is metabolized to triglycerides. Increased triglyceride intake decreases insulin sensitivity. Decreased insulin sensitivity causes further metabolic dysregulation including worsened mineral imbalances.
This explains why a diet of white rice, sugar and fruit free of fat can improve insulin resistance.
Choline deficiency may be the primary reason behind why a high glucose diet relieves liver dysfunction because choline deficiency restricts triglycerides from being able to leave the liver via VLDL.
@tim-2 Ok so if someone improves their liver with a lower fat diet higher starch diet with adequate choline they can also recover their brain function? I'm wondering how he can see such success with the protocol if it can cause high blood glucose, I mean we know enough about that to know that it's a disaster for health, so how is he seeing improved diabetes? That I just don't get and can't wait to see the results for people who do it for at least 6 months or when symptoms go away.
I'm actually getting quite concerned about my own blood sugar. Last couple days mine was the highest I've ever seen it- fasting 98 and then 99 this morning. I've literally never seen it this high. I'm going to get a blood test on the 31rst to make sure it isn't the meter. I'm eating the least amount of sugars and fats I've probably ever eaten! Maybe I'm not compensating enough for that decrease with enough starch. Starch is very filling for me. Unless I gorge on pasta. So then I'm causing increased stress.
I didn't say that taking glucose doesn't help, I explained how it can.
If liver function is improved then glucose regulation in the brain should improve.
Liver dysfunction obviously has many causes and the nature of the dysfunction will vary on an individual basis. While I think most people will benefit from having starch in their diet going to an extreme may not be beneficial for many.
I personally eat instinctively most of the time and my diet is high in sugar and moderate in fat. A low fat low sugar diet will tend to be calorically insufficient for an active healthy person. Humans have always been honey eaters, I don't think fructose is inherently bad, I think it just becomes a problem when gut and liver dysfunction is present.
Low dose vitamin C and low dose full spectrum natural vitamin E are indicated for improving liver dysfunction. I think that zinc and lecithin are the two standout supplemental micronutrients though for generally improving liver dysfunction.
Thanks for your reply, I understand better now. Yeah I don't think forcing more starch (or glucose) in will solve my issues. Though the promise of it by Dr. Stephens sounds so appealing! If I ate instinctively it would be like I was eating on the Ray Peat diet. Oj, bananas, sweetened drinks, ice cream, cheese, and not enough protein (averaged 55grams per day). I wish I could still do that! I am overall healthier on the lower fat higher protein higher fiber, just need to dial some things in. I finally bought some sunflower lecithin to try as I just can't do egg yolks.