Quote from tim on December 31, 2019, 1:51 am

@bludicka

Yeah going really low VA could be quite counterproductive especially when intake of other supportive nutrients are affected.

 

Quote from lil chick on December 31, 2019, 7:40 am

point 1:  Isn't it a common belief here at ideas/concepts/observations that it isn't really easy to determine VA status?  Do we believe this part of these studies?

I'm not denying that the stingy part does seem like something the body would do (especially with nutrients it considers important)  (in other words, get stingy with them when the flow stops).  The opposite isn't very logical though.    (maybe better health leads to you detoxing from VA faster?)  Or maybe you hide it away better because you aren't overflowing with it (see point 1)

however, are they just really seeing two types of people?

any low-VA person is probably a person with good detox and/or bad absorption

any high-VA person is probably a person with poor detox and/or good absorption

Quote from Judy on December 31, 2019, 6:25 pm

I used to be a big promoter of liver consumption. I have made a 180 degree turn. I explained my conversion here: https://www.carbwarscookbooks.com/eureka-part-3/

Quote from tim on December 31, 2019, 7:25 pm

Hi Judy,

I like the first part of your article about the genome and the soma.

Interesting that you mention that it was Inuit men that ate most of the liver, would this mean that Piblokto may have nothing to do with VA or maybe liver consumption patterns varied among the different tribes?

Glycation: Don’t eat glucose. Your body can make all that you need.

The only long term zero carber I know about was Owsley "Bear" Stanley and he got both heart disease and cancer. It's hard to draw conclusions from one person's health though especially when Stanley had taken so many drugs in his life. My thoughts on zero glucose consumption are that a normal glucose metabolic state has scientific consensus on it being optimal compared with a ketogenic state. Carnivorous animals don't have a low protein ceiling like us and generate large amounts of glucose through gluconeogenesis, they don't eat the fat or much of it of their prey. We don't have the same capability for gluconeogenesis yet have large glycogen reserves that need to be constantly replenished and so obtaining glucose in the diet is much more efficient than any alternative. Optimally a meal contains plenty of glucose, saturated fat and mono unsaturated fat, these being the cleanest fuels for the body. Also, consuming zero glucose means quite a restricted diet micronutrient wise if one isn't consuming liver. Nutrients like Vit C, thiamin, folate, molybdenum, manganese are not supplied in adequate amounts.

Quote from joshz on January 2, 2020, 8:13 am

@tim-2

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the reply. Yeah I definitely am not telling people not to eat meat. I honestly wish I could eat more of it, as I am not a vegetarian because of ethics, but more because I get nightmares and feel tired after eating meat. It can also be constipating for me. I suspect it could possibly because of low digestive fire, but I couldn't say for sure. If I was sleeping more than I think I would have an easier time with eating and digesting meat. If anyone has any good recommendations  do share. And interesting perspective on karma in general. You sound like a wise individual. 

Quote from hillcountry on January 2, 2020, 9:55 am

@joshz - the use of Betaine HCL isn't discussed very much these days, but a long time ago, lack of stomach-acidity was one thing that was up there on the list of items to check-off before looking any further. Maybe because it was so simple and could resolve complex situations that were difficult to do a "Dr. House" on at the time. If you were lucky, it was a Bingo!! Adele Davis used to cover this subject in detail in her popular books like "Let's Get Well". 

Here's a few excerpts on the subject if you haven't run across it yet. These came from a newsletter that was loosely affiliated with Hulda Clark, who got into more than a bit of trouble, as many alternative folks are prone to do, and not always because they were correct and doing all good things; but that said, I think much of this particular batch of information is valid and at least worth consideration, especially since testing whether or not it might be the case is so easy. There's a short protocol on that below. 

Dr. Walter Guy, M.D. writes, "Hydrochloric acid is also the protective agency against microbial life in food and water intake of the stomach." The low pH of HCL has the effect of destroying most micro-organisms entering the gastrointestinal tract. In this way HCL plays a role in improving immune function. There is an increased prevalence of giardia and cholera among people smoking cannabis, a drug known to actively suppress HCL secretion. Conditions such as pernicious anemia, partial gastrectomy and gastric carcinoma appear to be related to poor secretion, or a total lack of hydrochloric acid.

What are the symptoms of total absence of HCL known as Achlorhydria?

• • Vague epigastric distress after meals
  • Chronic intestinal gas
  • Constipation
  • Belching
  • Abdominal distension
  • Coated tongue
  • Nausea and vomiting
  • Morning diarrhea with frequent appearance of undigested food in the stool

Some say they can only eat a small amount of food before feeling full. Others say that the food seems to sit in the stomach for too long. Many are constipated while others have diarrhea. There may also be no symptoms to refer to this problem.

In Relationship of Fatigue to Gastrointestinal Inadequacy

Curr. Therap. Research. 5(12) pp. 620/625 December 1963,

Dr. S. Oliver states that the alimentary tract of many patients is more sensitive to stressful influences than any other part of the body. Various physical stimuli as well as emotional factors have far reaching influences on the gastrointestinal mechanisms. Fatigue from any cause is likely to interfere with the digestive process, particularly those of the stomach and small bowel. Gastrointestinal secretions may be inhibited and peristalsis (the wave-like motion by which the gastrointestinal tract propels it’s contents) reversed as a result of either physical or psycho-genic exhaustion, with consequent anorexia or epigastric or abdominal stress. Exacerbation of ulcerative colitis or disturbances of the liver and biliary tract frequently will be accompanied by an overpowering sense of weariness. Aging, elevated levels of prostaglandin E2, cannabis use and infancy are conditions associated with the depressed secretion of HCL.

In Health Update USA, a newsletter published by Dr. Skye Lininger,

Digestive Juice, Do You Have Enough? - Davis W. Lamson, MS, ND.

Dr. Lamson writes of meeting an old school friend after 30 years and against his will he looked for signs of nutritional deficiency. He said there were some, but the most striking were that his energy was abnormally low for his age, and his mental sharpness, while not bad, was nowhere near what he recalled for someone classified as near genius. The symptoms all added up, they were ridged fingernails, dry skin, especially on the shins and occasional calf muscle cramps as well as some symptoms previously listed in this article. He began to think of the possibility that his friend was suffering from the production of too little stomach digestive juice or HCL. While too little HCL will not kill you it can make life miserable and in his opinion low HCL production is one of the most far reaching of all health problems.

Dr. Lamson makes some startling points in this article. He mentions that low HCL seems to decrease some nutritional absorption causing food allergy reactions and lower immunity. When poorly digested food leaves the stomach it can trigger food allergy reactions in the lining of the small intestine.

When allergies start some of the first nutrients mal-absorbed are the oils. This can result in dry skin and internal problems of reduced essential fatty acids, the oils the body cannot manufacture. In addition, absorption of fat-soluble vitamins A, D, E and K may be reduced creating additional problems. Food allergies can trigger an ‘over response’ in the immune system and make it hard for it to respond properly, which in turn can aggravate autoimmune conditions such as arthritis and lupus.

Dr. Lamson elaborates, "at our clinic we have noticed that many patients with auto-immune problems also have low HCL and supplementing with this can decrease allergic reactions and lessen auto-immune aggravation." He also relates that, "most chronic or recurring gastrointestinal infections seen at our clinic get better with HCL supplementation."

Apparently the same stomach cells that make HCL also make the intrinsic factor to absorb vitamin B12. As we know, lack of B12 can cause symptoms such as fatigue, emotional problems, decreased mental sharpness, memory loss, depression and anxiety. Many patients, whose muscle cramps get better with extra calcium or magnesium, are low in HCL.

Poor digestion can also lead to amino acid problems and deficiencies and as brain and nerve transmitter chemicals are manufactured from amino acids such deficiencies can be quite serious. The article mentions that HCL helps to protect from potentially harmful bacteria by sterilising food. If you suffer from traveler’s diarrhea you might suspect low HCL is to blame.

Other symptoms linked with low nutrient absorption due to lack of HCL are:

• • Vitiligo (loss of skin pigment)
  • Acne rosacea (constant appearance of a reddish, flushed-looking face)

The Heidleberg capsule proved to be one of the most conclusive ways to assess the secretion of HCL, but not everyone has access to the Heidleberg capsule. (This expensive device involves swallowing a capsule about the size of a vitamin capsule). This is an acid measuring radio telemetry device. It measures the acidity of the stomach and radios the results to an antennae which the patient wears like a large belt around the waist during the one to two hour test. While the telemetry capsule is in the stomach the stomach’s ability to make acid is challenged by having the subject swallow a teaspoon of water saturated with sodium bicarbonate. If the stomach is normal we will see acidity return to the stomach. If the stomach is unable to withstand 5 of these challenges then it is confirmed that hypochlorhydria is the problem.

So to test your individual needs you may on three consecutive mornings take one, then two, then three betaine hydrochloride tablets on an empty stomach. If you have no bad reactions then take one or two before each meal for a week and see how your digestion feels. If it is better, you may safely assume that your stomach has not been producing enough acid for proper digestion.

There are some possible bad reactions:

• • Heartburn
  • Gas
  • Pain in the stomach
  • Gastrointestinal symptoms

If these do occur do not take any more betaine hydrochloride and neutralize the reaction with milk or baking soda in water. Do not attempt this if there is a history of ulcers/gastritis, etc.

Remember too that no anti-inflammatory drugs or aspirin or cortisone should ever be taken with HCL as this combination increases the risk of an ulcer.

There is some evidence that iron absorption is enhanced by HCL contained in the gastric juice so anemia is pronounced with a lack of HCL

Many people who have too little stomach acid are being treated as if they have too much. The reason for this is that the symptoms are similar. There are many people out there who are being misdiagnosed and mistreated. A full 60% of people over the age of 60 are hypochlorhydric and of all the patients coming to a doctor, up to 50% of these have underlying hypochlorhydia.

The image of the overactive stomach is so common many people are treating themselves with antacids without even bothering to find out if this is the problem. The resulting imbalance of bacterial flora further down the digestive tract produces a lot of hydrogen sulphide gas.

We have the ability to concentrate HCL in the stomach one million times more than in surrounding tissues. Many bacteria enter the body with food, some of them are not friendly to human life. In a normal stomach these bacteria are doused with acid and die. In a person with hypochlorhydia these bacteria are escorted into the small intestine along with a generous food supply. People with hypochlorhydia have more than their fair share of infections. The ever present yeast organism makes its entrance via the mouth.

The symptoms of hypochlorhydia (low HCL) are very similar to those of achlorhydria (absence of HCL) mentioned previously.

The ‘big belly’ is a common sight on the streets of America and in the UK and in many cases is contributed to hypochlorhydia and a relative absence of digestive enzymes which should be derived from food. This combination of circumstances results in excessive eating and stasis of food in the colon.

The excessive eating occurs because incomplete digestion causes a condition of under nourishment and hunger. When incompletely digested food reaches the colon the colon reacts by slowing down causing chronic congestion of food in the colon.

Laboratory tests, which reveal the benefit of HCL supplementation, are:

1. 1. Stool analysis to demonstrate complete protein digestion
   2. A blood count to demonstrate correction of pernicious anemia, or a previously iron resistant form of anemia due to poor iron absorption
   3. X-rays to demonstrate recalcification of certain types of osteoporosis caused by poor calcium absorption in turn due to low stomach acid

Hypochlorhydria is associated with increased risk of stomach cancer. This may be due to the conversion of nitrites into cancer-inducing nitrosamines in an abnormally alkaline stomach. Also intestinal overgrowth of bacteria and the incidence of parasitic infections is increased when stomach acid is low. Risk of cancer, parasites, expected bacteria overgrowth and remember the always present yeast organism always ready to become a problem all add up to a lot more inconvenience than popping a few betaine hydrochloride capsules with each meal.

Most of these facts come from Dr. Jonathan V. Wright’s Guide to Healing Nutrition, Keats Publishing, ISBN 0-87983-530-3

So, are there any vitamins that will help us with a lack of HCL? Yes, Vitamins B1, B3 and B6 all stimulate production of HCL.

Bone problems are more prominent, particularly the osteo’s with lack of HCL. In fact, when suffering HCL deficiency the body is unable to chelate calcium, which means to bind it with amino acids for use in building bones.

Lack of HCL inhibits the absorption of folic acid as well as B12. Wine is considered to be a healthy drink with many benefits. One of these is an increase in HCL. So for those who regularly take a glass of wine with a meal as is common in France, the chances are the HCL is doing you as much good as the wine itself.

 

Quote from lil chick on January 2, 2020, 2:04 pm

Josh, that HCL idea is definitely a thing.

Maybe also a person needs to start slow.

It seems to me that several people here (including myself) have become intolerant to histamine (possibly due to VA), and some meats are high.   

The fresher the better.   Pork is naturally higher than other meats.  Chicken skin is higher than the meat and broths can be high.   Restaurant food and holiday buffet tables and leftovers are very high.  Cold cuts are high, hard sausage is super high.  Bacon is high (sadly)

I might go with buying a organic ground beef in frozen 1 pound packs from a local farmer, you can ask for meat that has gone straight from butchering to the freezer.

Long cooking times (such as slow cooked bbq), or crock pot increases histamines, as does any burning.

A gentle way to cook meat is to drop small pieces of it into a little water cover and cook for just the amount of time necessary.    Don't discard the broth, you'll loose nutrients.  A little thickener and salt will make it into a quick gravy.

Histamine intolerance is something that I think will go away with the VA

Edited to add:  since this is the liver thread, I think liver can easily be very high in histamines if it isn't very fresh.

Quote from joshz on January 2, 2020, 5:08 pm

@hillcountry

@lil-chick

Thank you two for the knowledge. I don't know what my HCL condition is like but that would make sense. Question is, does taking HCL in supplement form cause the body to down regulate its own production. I think that would be my only concern with that. I have certainly had an issue with high histamine foods in the past so that sounds on point. I will try your steaming method! I was planning to either steam or lightly boil my meat going forward to see if it was easier to digest than grilling or baking. I wonder if raw or rare cooked red meat might be easier to digest as well. Also anemia showed up on test which went along with hcl thing. The joys of being a modern human lol

 

 

Quote from tim on January 2, 2020, 5:46 pm

HCL didn't help me much but it sounds like it can help for some. The problem with taking HCL is that only the body knows how much is a good amount and when for a given meal. When taking HCL you can take not enough or too much. If we eat a meal without much protein the body doesn't normally secrete a lot of HCL.

There are two things I know of that can restore HCL. Firstly controlling helicobacter pylori with honey, herbs and spices helps as helicobacter suppresses HCL. Secondly correcting deficiencies that lead to low HCL, low thiamin is a likely one for many of us. Correcting nutrient deficiencies and taking anti-bug foods helps the gut in many ways that are not related to HCL as well.

Digestive enzymes and probiotics can help while HCL is low and for general gut health.