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Long story short: Discovered my Vitamin A issues through smoking cigarettes.
A long update.
I have been strict low vitamin A for nearly a month. I have also been consciously reducing Vitamin A since August. Detox symptoms were pretty mild versions of what I suffered before. The enormous amount of positive symptoms helped me get over the few negatives.
Positives:
My back is straightening out. I had a hunchback develop in college, and my neck has been releasing. I haven't done any exercise for it like yoga, and I stopped physical therapy years ago. This is really surprising because I spent thousands of dollars trying to fix my posture, even though nothing helped. My dad and sister have similar issues, despite having straight backs before their twenties.(Both were highly active. My dad developed it despite being on his feet much of the day, and being very active. My sister was also very active, yet her posture hunched at twenty, just as it did to me.) As a result of this experiment, my height has gone back to 5'9.5" from 5'8".
Face is straightening out. Before it used to look like my nose got punched in a little. My nose looks straight, and my general appearance is more symmetrical.
Bone pain is gone. I had severe spinal pain that made work difficult. I have a physical job at a warehouse, and I can spend hours lifting, squatting and standing. I'd get severe spinal pain which forced me to take frequent breaks.
Concentration has improved. I can get lost in books like I used to as a kid. I stay up reading now because I have the energy to do so.
I also stay up later because I don't need as much sleep. I fall asleep easier, and I also need about 6 hours of sleep now. Once a week, I typically sleep a little more.
Jock itch/fungal issues are gone. I actually provoked it on purpose a month and a half ago by eating butter, milk chocolate, ice cream and chicken during the day. I used no anti fungal and it disappeared when I went low on Vitamin A. This makes me think that the long term fungal issues have been simply due to my lymphatic system being clogged up.
I can overeat, but not feel ill or get bloated. I can go without a meal and not feel weak. I am also thinking less about food than I used to.
Redness in my skin nearly gone. After removing dairy, a few pimples showed up, but there was a decrease in redness around them. My nose is also less red and the skin is healing. Red marks around around my eyes are also gone. It is an interesting cycle to observe. The skin first dried a bit, broke out, dried up, and is now much clearer.
White of my eyes are clearer. My eyes are also turning more blue from their original green color. My eyesight is also improving. I am currently near sighted, but my prescription is feeling a bit strong. I have an appointment with my optometrist in January, so I will update this. I also had a random scar tissue in my eye which has been present for years. I am curious to see if that will disappear. Additionally, my spatial awareness is increasing. What I mean, is that I can focus on an entire street and easily be aware of multiple things at once. Before, it was as if I was wearing blinders, focusing on a few things.
Grey hairs are going, and turning blonde again.(I'm 28) Additionally I am experiencing mild regrowth of hair by my temples. Texture of hair is also improving.
Calluses on my feet are peeling and skin is smoothening out.
Lucid dreams. Never happened before, but I am currently doing a lot of traveling in my dreams. Visiting old friends, places I love, family I miss. It is really nice for once. Occasional nightmares though, which are just as vivid!
Sense of time is also changing. Before, things felt scattered and disconnected. Now, everything feels linked up and connected. I am mindful and in the moment without trying to be. Things feel very new.
I am also paying attention more when people speak. Not just words, but intonations, fluctuations in sounds, breathing etc. I don't have the urge to interrupt people, and really try to understand what they are saying and how they are saying it.
My voice is changing. My pronunciation of words is more precise. I guess I feel like I have more time to speak, with no urgency.
Diet has been loose. Junk foods allowed. Just no carotenoids and very low vitamin A when possible. I have been eating to craving and desire lately. Meals include a lot of starch(all grains and potatoes. Supermarket bread has also been fine), refined oils, beans as available, lean meats, occasional fatty beef, beef broths made with onion only, pears, pineapples as available, baked apples, some dairy free spreads for bread, vegan cookies, soda, graham crackers, vegan pancakes, french fries potato chips, some deli like roast beef and turkey, chocolate, white or light veggies as well. Also been having a beer daily. Lately, more coffee and tea. At first it was exasperating some back pain, but that has seemed to go. Caffeine actually helps me predict which days I am likely to have detox symptoms.
In terms of craving, I also don't miss a lot of fruits, vegetables, cheese, or milk. I only occasionally want some ice cream, but that is fading too. I am hoping to replace cigarettes with caffeine eventually.
The only negatives:
Mild depression at times. But it is better than it has been in years. I almost feel like I did as a kid. I used to see a therapist up until the summer, but we couldn't make heads or tales of it, because I have great parents, good relationships with family, and no financial woes. The depression was seemingly random. Currently, it is far softer than it has ever been. What I mean, is that the depression has no edge to it anymore. It doesn't rule my decisions. I don't even need to go for a walk or really do anything about it. Additionally, it is not influencing my decisions anymore. I don't even feel like "it" matters. I feel like this is also coming alongside greater clarity and consciousness. Definitely don't feel like am swimming in my head anymore, to use the Darwin analogy Grant brought up.
I do still smoke, but never more than 3 cigarettes a day.
Lastly, one of the heartbreaking things is realizing I spent so much time not listening to my body. Additionally, I wonder how many years I "lost" to ill health and the resulting lack of clarity and poor judgement. For once in my life, I feel like I have some peace of mind. Additionally, I have been feeling much more faithful and religious. Just flat out grateful. I didn't even realize how much anxiety I had till this experiment. I don't even regret not going to grad school. Nor do I regret certain missed opportunities like I used to. This is despite that occasional thought ---what would have happened if I learned about this years ago. Even that "depressing" thought isn't so depressing anymore.
P.S. If any changes come up, I will write them up. There are some other, mild positive developments, but it's too early to tell.
Wow, that's encouraging. I am following a similar path. I am decreasing vit A and have started to listen to my body more which results in more food especially starches.
I have noticed many of the improvements you have listed like with the field of vision. It was so narrow before that I could only focus on half of a TV screen.
Quote from YH on December 17, 2018, 7:24 pmA long update.
I have been strict low vitamin A for nearly a month. I have also been consciously reducing Vitamin A since August. Detox symptoms were pretty mild versions of what I suffered before. The enormous amount of positive symptoms helped me get over the few negatives.
Positives:
My back is straightening out. I had a hunchback develop in college, and my neck has been releasing. I haven't done any exercise for it like yoga, and I stopped physical therapy years ago. This is really surprising because I spent thousands of dollars trying to fix my posture, even though nothing helped. My dad and sister have similar issues, despite having straight backs before their twenties.(Both were highly active. My dad developed it despite being on his feet much of the day, and being very active. My sister was also very active, yet her posture hunched at twenty, just as it did to me.) As a result of this experiment, my height has gone back to 5'9.5" from 5'8".
Face is straightening out. Before it used to look like my nose got punched in a little. My nose looks straight, and my general appearance is more symmetrical.
Bone pain is gone. I had severe spinal pain that made work difficult. I have a physical job at a warehouse, and I can spend hours lifting, squatting and standing. I'd get severe spinal pain which forced me to take frequent breaks.
Concentration has improved. I can get lost in books like I used to as a kid. I stay up reading now because I have the energy to do so.
I also stay up later because I don't need as much sleep. I fall asleep easier, and I also need about 6 hours of sleep now. Once a week, I typically sleep a little more.
Jock itch/fungal issues are gone. I actually provoked it on purpose a month and a half ago by eating butter, milk chocolate, ice cream and chicken during the day. I used no anti fungal and it disappeared when I went low on Vitamin A. This makes me think that the long term fungal issues have been simply due to my lymphatic system being clogged up.
I can overeat, but not feel ill or get bloated. I can go without a meal and not feel weak. I am also thinking less about food than I used to.
Redness in my skin nearly gone. After removing dairy, a few pimples showed up, but there was a decrease in redness around them. My nose is also less red and the skin is healing. Red marks around around my eyes are also gone. It is an interesting cycle to observe. The skin first dried a bit, broke out, dried up, and is now much clearer.
White of my eyes are clearer. My eyes are also turning more blue from their original green color. My eyesight is also improving. I am currently near sighted, but my prescription is feeling a bit strong. I have an appointment with my optometrist in January, so I will update this. I also had a random scar tissue in my eye which has been present for years. I am curious to see if that will disappear. Additionally, my spatial awareness is increasing. What I mean, is that I can focus on an entire street and easily be aware of multiple things at once. Before, it was as if I was wearing blinders, focusing on a few things.
Grey hairs are going, and turning blonde again.(I'm 28) Additionally I am experiencing mild regrowth of hair by my temples. Texture of hair is also improving.
Calluses on my feet are peeling and skin is smoothening out.
Lucid dreams. Never happened before, but I am currently doing a lot of traveling in my dreams. Visiting old friends, places I love, family I miss. It is really nice for once. Occasional nightmares though, which are just as vivid!
Sense of time is also changing. Before, things felt scattered and disconnected. Now, everything feels linked up and connected. I am mindful and in the moment without trying to be. Things feel very new.
I am also paying attention more when people speak. Not just words, but intonations, fluctuations in sounds, breathing etc. I don't have the urge to interrupt people, and really try to understand what they are saying and how they are saying it.
My voice is changing. My pronunciation of words is more precise. I guess I feel like I have more time to speak, with no urgency.
Diet has been loose. Junk foods allowed. Just no carotenoids and very low vitamin A when possible. I have been eating to craving and desire lately. Meals include a lot of starch(all grains and potatoes. Supermarket bread has also been fine), refined oils, beans as available, lean meats, occasional fatty beef, beef broths made with onion only, pears, pineapples as available, baked apples, some dairy free spreads for bread, vegan cookies, soda, graham crackers, vegan pancakes, french fries potato chips, some deli like roast beef and turkey, chocolate, white or light veggies as well. Also been having a beer daily. Lately, more coffee and tea. At first it was exasperating some back pain, but that has seemed to go. Caffeine actually helps me predict which days I am likely to have detox symptoms.
In terms of craving, I also don't miss a lot of fruits, vegetables, cheese, or milk. I only occasionally want some ice cream, but that is fading too. I am hoping to replace cigarettes with caffeine eventually.
The only negatives:
Mild depression at times. But it is better than it has been in years. I almost feel like I did as a kid. I used to see a therapist up until the summer, but we couldn't make heads or tales of it, because I have great parents, good relationships with family, and no financial woes. The depression was seemingly random. Currently, it is far softer than it has ever been. What I mean, is that the depression has no edge to it anymore. It doesn't rule my decisions. I don't even need to go for a walk or really do anything about it. Additionally, it is not influencing my decisions anymore. I don't even feel like "it" matters. I feel like this is also coming alongside greater clarity and consciousness. Definitely don't feel like am swimming in my head anymore, to use the Darwin analogy Grant brought up.
I do still smoke, but never more than 3 cigarettes a day.
Lastly, one of the heartbreaking things is realizing I spent so much time not listening to my body. Additionally, I wonder how many years I "lost" to ill health and the resulting lack of clarity and poor judgement. For once in my life, I feel like I have some peace of mind. Additionally, I have been feeling much more faithful and religious. Just flat out grateful. I didn't even realize how much anxiety I had till this experiment. I don't even regret not going to grad school. Nor do I regret certain missed opportunities like I used to. This is despite that occasional thought ---what would have happened if I learned about this years ago. Even that "depressing" thought isn't so depressing anymore.
P.S. If any changes come up, I will write them up. There are some other, mild positive developments, but it's too early to tell.
I just read this and I’m so happy for you!
I have noticed depression for lack of a better word is basically gone. I’ve struggled with it for most of my life and the usual treatments like meds and therapy never did much (probably because it was a poisoning). I had made headway but it was still in the background all the time as something I tried to manage the best I could.
This has probably been the best aspect of going on the A elimination diet!
Thanks for sharing your success YH!
😊 Bella
Caffeine actually helps me predict which days I am likely to have detox symptoms.
Thanks for your update. I am curious how the coffee is indicating the detox symptoms for you? Are you noticing the Are you noticing symptoms of detox 5 hours later or the following day?
🙂
Quote from somuch4food on December 17, 2018, 7:37 pmWow, that's encouraging. I am following a similar path. I am decreasing vit A and have started to listen to my body more which results in more food especially starches.
I have noticed many of the improvements you have listed like with the field of vision. It was so narrow before that I could only focus on half of a TV screen.
The change in vision feels dramatically different. I hardly feel like I'm living in my head anymore. I think this directly has to do with vision improvement. In addition my sense of smell and taste is changing as well. This results in me being more perceptive with regards to food choices(and other choices) and can rely less on my intellect to guide my choices. I feel some serious encouraging signs with regards to my vision, which makes me really question how much Vitamin A is actually essential or not.
Quote from Guest on December 21, 2018, 3:44 pmQuote from YH on December 17, 2018, 7:24 pmA long update.
I have been strict low vitamin A for nearly a month. I have also been consciously reducing Vitamin A since August. Detox symptoms were pretty mild versions of what I suffered before. The enormous amount of positive symptoms helped me get over the few negatives.
Positives:
My back is straightening out. I had a hunchback develop in college, and my neck has been releasing. I haven't done any exercise for it like yoga, and I stopped physical therapy years ago. This is really surprising because I spent thousands of dollars trying to fix my posture, even though nothing helped. My dad and sister have similar issues, despite having straight backs before their twenties.(Both were highly active. My dad developed it despite being on his feet much of the day, and being very active. My sister was also very active, yet her posture hunched at twenty, just as it did to me.) As a result of this experiment, my height has gone back to 5'9.5" from 5'8".
Face is straightening out. Before it used to look like my nose got punched in a little. My nose looks straight, and my general appearance is more symmetrical.
Bone pain is gone. I had severe spinal pain that made work difficult. I have a physical job at a warehouse, and I can spend hours lifting, squatting and standing. I'd get severe spinal pain which forced me to take frequent breaks.
Concentration has improved. I can get lost in books like I used to as a kid. I stay up reading now because I have the energy to do so.
I also stay up later because I don't need as much sleep. I fall asleep easier, and I also need about 6 hours of sleep now. Once a week, I typically sleep a little more.
Jock itch/fungal issues are gone. I actually provoked it on purpose a month and a half ago by eating butter, milk chocolate, ice cream and chicken during the day. I used no anti fungal and it disappeared when I went low on Vitamin A. This makes me think that the long term fungal issues have been simply due to my lymphatic system being clogged up.
I can overeat, but not feel ill or get bloated. I can go without a meal and not feel weak. I am also thinking less about food than I used to.
Redness in my skin nearly gone. After removing dairy, a few pimples showed up, but there was a decrease in redness around them. My nose is also less red and the skin is healing. Red marks around around my eyes are also gone. It is an interesting cycle to observe. The skin first dried a bit, broke out, dried up, and is now much clearer.
White of my eyes are clearer. My eyes are also turning more blue from their original green color. My eyesight is also improving. I am currently near sighted, but my prescription is feeling a bit strong. I have an appointment with my optometrist in January, so I will update this. I also had a random scar tissue in my eye which has been present for years. I am curious to see if that will disappear. Additionally, my spatial awareness is increasing. What I mean, is that I can focus on an entire street and easily be aware of multiple things at once. Before, it was as if I was wearing blinders, focusing on a few things.
Grey hairs are going, and turning blonde again.(I'm 28) Additionally I am experiencing mild regrowth of hair by my temples. Texture of hair is also improving.
Calluses on my feet are peeling and skin is smoothening out.
Lucid dreams. Never happened before, but I am currently doing a lot of traveling in my dreams. Visiting old friends, places I love, family I miss. It is really nice for once. Occasional nightmares though, which are just as vivid!
Sense of time is also changing. Before, things felt scattered and disconnected. Now, everything feels linked up and connected. I am mindful and in the moment without trying to be. Things feel very new.
I am also paying attention more when people speak. Not just words, but intonations, fluctuations in sounds, breathing etc. I don't have the urge to interrupt people, and really try to understand what they are saying and how they are saying it.
My voice is changing. My pronunciation of words is more precise. I guess I feel like I have more time to speak, with no urgency.
Diet has been loose. Junk foods allowed. Just no carotenoids and very low vitamin A when possible. I have been eating to craving and desire lately. Meals include a lot of starch(all grains and potatoes. Supermarket bread has also been fine), refined oils, beans as available, lean meats, occasional fatty beef, beef broths made with onion only, pears, pineapples as available, baked apples, some dairy free spreads for bread, vegan cookies, soda, graham crackers, vegan pancakes, french fries potato chips, some deli like roast beef and turkey, chocolate, white or light veggies as well. Also been having a beer daily. Lately, more coffee and tea. At first it was exasperating some back pain, but that has seemed to go. Caffeine actually helps me predict which days I am likely to have detox symptoms.
In terms of craving, I also don't miss a lot of fruits, vegetables, cheese, or milk. I only occasionally want some ice cream, but that is fading too. I am hoping to replace cigarettes with caffeine eventually.
The only negatives:
Mild depression at times. But it is better than it has been in years. I almost feel like I did as a kid. I used to see a therapist up until the summer, but we couldn't make heads or tales of it, because I have great parents, good relationships with family, and no financial woes. The depression was seemingly random. Currently, it is far softer than it has ever been. What I mean, is that the depression has no edge to it anymore. It doesn't rule my decisions. I don't even need to go for a walk or really do anything about it. Additionally, it is not influencing my decisions anymore. I don't even feel like "it" matters. I feel like this is also coming alongside greater clarity and consciousness. Definitely don't feel like am swimming in my head anymore, to use the Darwin analogy Grant brought up.
I do still smoke, but never more than 3 cigarettes a day.
Lastly, one of the heartbreaking things is realizing I spent so much time not listening to my body. Additionally, I wonder how many years I "lost" to ill health and the resulting lack of clarity and poor judgement. For once in my life, I feel like I have some peace of mind. Additionally, I have been feeling much more faithful and religious. Just flat out grateful. I didn't even realize how much anxiety I had till this experiment. I don't even regret not going to grad school. Nor do I regret certain missed opportunities like I used to. This is despite that occasional thought ---what would have happened if I learned about this years ago. Even that "depressing" thought isn't so depressing anymore.
P.S. If any changes come up, I will write them up. There are some other, mild positive developments, but it's too early to tell.
I just read this and I’m so happy for you!
I have noticed depression for lack of a better word is basically gone. I’ve struggled with it for most of my life and the usual treatments like meds and therapy never did much (probably because it was a poisoning). I had made headway but it was still in the background all the time as something I tried to manage the best I could.
This has probably been the best aspect of going on the A elimination diet!
Thanks for sharing your success YH!
Bella
Thanks Bella! The depression aspect is really surprising. Until last summer, I had basic thought it was something chronic that I'd simply have to cope with. I had a friend in college who used to tell me that sometimes it seemed like a dark cloud just came over you. It really seems like the cloud has lifted. This experiment is really validating the idea that a lot of problems are actually systemic.
Quote from Mokus on December 21, 2018, 5:52 pm
Caffeine actually helps me predict which days I am likely to have detox symptoms.
Thanks for your update. I am curious how the coffee is indicating the detox symptoms for you? Are you noticing the Are you noticing symptoms of detox 5 hours later or the following day?
I actually notice them within the hour and it progresses for the rest of the day. The symptoms typically appear between 10AM and 2-3PM. The symptoms I get is mild itchiness by lymph nodes, my mood is reduced, my hands become inflamed and reddish, and I feel pain in my upper back which is currently very mild.
I kept drinking coffee because I assumed my body was dumping vitamin A and beta carotene from fat stores. Coffee can cause a mild stress response which increases fatty acids in the blood, which means more Vitamin A(which is stored in fatty tissue).
Coffee also magnifies your current mood. On none-detox days, I only feel mind stimulation and it elevates my mood without any pain or itching. I think coffee helps quicken the detox as well, even though it is less pleasant at the time.
Holy moly! I seriously thought it was all in my head that my face looked like it has become less symmetrical since quitting smoking. Wow...just wow! I also have BCMO1 and figured it contributed to vitamin a toxicity. And yes, my skin was so much better as a smoker. Really hoping these improve as I continue my low vitamin a journey.
-Lia
This thread is blowing my mind a little bit! I've been bugging my husband to quit smoking for YEARS, but... now I have him *semi* following the low-A diet along with me, so I am definitely going to have him read some of these posts! Absolutely amazing. Of course, Grant's books continue to blow my mind over and over and over again, too. I've never felt more aware of how little I really knew before now, and how so many things are the opposite of what you have thought your whole life! By the way, coffee is supposedly good for the liver... although maybe in terms of the vit A, it's stimulating it to release the stored toxins. I wish we could figure out how to safely transport it OUT of the body! On another thread in this forum, someone mentioned ingesting gold... that it somehow increases the amount of retinol binding protein, so I've been looking into nano-particle colloidal gold as a supplement. I'm convinced it's very safe and might help, but haven't started using it yet. Meanwhile, looks like maybe I should take up smoking (at age 64)! Haha.. <jk>
~Patti
That's also very intersting for me, because i started drinking coffee with 26 years after beginning a WAPF diet and smoking tobacco with 28 years after beginning a Ray Peat diet.
Quote from Guest on January 18, 2019, 1:43 pmHoly moly! I seriously thought it was all in my head that my face looked like it has become less symmetrical since quitting smoking. Wow...just wow! I also have BCMO1 and figured it contributed to vitamin a toxicity. And yes, my skin was so much better as a smoker. Really hoping these improve as I continue my low vitamin a journey.
-Lia
I think smoking temporary keeps certain problems at bay. There is also evidence than long term smokers have lower beta carotene and retinol levels than non smokers, while their vitamin E levels remain higher.
Quote from Patti on January 22, 2019, 10:29 amThis thread is blowing my mind a little bit! I've been bugging my husband to quit smoking for YEARS, but... now I have him *semi* following the low-A diet along with me, so I am definitely going to have him read some of these posts! Absolutely amazing. Of course, Grant's books continue to blow my mind over and over and over again, too. I've never felt more aware of how little I really knew before now, and how so many things are the opposite of what you have thought your whole life! By the way, coffee is supposedly good for the liver... although maybe in terms of the vit A, it's stimulating it to release the stored toxins. I wish we could figure out how to safely transport it OUT of the body! On another thread in this forum, someone mentioned ingesting gold... that it somehow increases the amount of retinol binding protein, so I've been looking into nano-particle colloidal gold as a supplement. I'm convinced it's very safe and might help, but haven't started using it yet. Meanwhile, looks like maybe I should take up smoking (at age 64)! Haha.. <jk>
~Patti
Coffee is also very good. I've actually been more liberal with coffee because I learned caffeine directly inhibits the expression of xanthine oxidase. Reduced activity of this enzyme is related to a myriad of benefits, but one in particular is very interesting. Xanthine oxidase is directly involved in the synthesis of retinoic acid. The interesting thing wit coffee, is that its cancer preventing benefits are found with rather excessive amounts of coffee(5+ cups a day). Perhaps the excessive inhibition of this enzyme is where the benefits lie.
Quote from Johannes on January 22, 2019, 11:57 amThat's also very intersting for me, because i started drinking coffee with 26 years after beginning a WAPF diet and smoking tobacco with 28 years after beginning a Ray Peat diet.
I definitely think coffee and cigarettes are an adaptive response related to diet. I was never a coffee consumer till college, and cigarettes I only started a few years ofter college. I think it helps curb the problem with excessive Vitamin A consumption, and allows the person to derive other benefits from food. Considering the highest dairy consumption and cold fish consumption is primarily in Nordic countries, it is really no surprise that the most coffee is consumed over there. Cigarette smoking is also fairly popular.
Disclaimer: This is not to say that these activities(at least smoking) is without consequence. I think the benefits are mainly in that they delay the problem with excessive Vitamin A consumption.
Interesting thread!
I was able to quit my nicotine gum use (I was very addicted) now in summer so easily, and I had been low vitamin A for a couple of months by then. I also had started taking lactoferrin, so my first thought was, that is what made the quitting so easy, but now when I read this thread, it might also have been my low vitamin A diet prior!
I used to eat a diet pretty high in vitamin A.. maybe that is why I became so addicted to nicotine! And i also always loved to smoke and loved the smell of it! I had to switch to gum because my lungs could not take the smoking anymore...