I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Love your liver course review Dr Garrett Smith
Coffee has good and bad characteristics. I have x1 a day. Don’t see an issue with that. I’m all about moderation. Grant favours coffee, from memory.
I suspect that including high inositol foods will turn out to be helpful for this detox. Limited diets = unforeseen problems. Unless it’s the ‘right’ limited diet! I’m hedging my bets.
well yeah Jenny thats why I have not quit yet, I am not 100% sure it is wise.. Grant says he would not quit it in the beginning of detox.... So maybe 1 cup a day would not be a bad thing, and wait like an hour after raising, to have it.
@jean Dr S tends to focus on the downside of everything when in actual fact it's much more complicated and there are benefits through the gut microbiome. See the diagram in Figure 1 of this study to see what I mean. Polyphenolic compounds have a variety of functions in plants including protecting them from a range of abiotic and biotic stresses such as pathogenic infections, ionising radiation and as signalling molecules. They are common constituents of human and animal diets, undergoing extensive metabolism by gut microbiota in many cases prior to entering circulation. They are linked to a range of positive health effects, including anti-oxidant, anti-inflammatory, antibiotic and disease-specific activities but the relationships between polyphenol bio-transformation products and their interactions in vivo are less well understood. Here we review the state of knowledge in this area, specifically what happens to dietary polyphenols after ingestion and how this is linked to health effects in humans and animals; paying particular attention to farm animals and pigs. We focus on the chemical transformation of polyphenols after ingestion, through microbial transformation, conjugation, absorption, entry into circulation and uptake by cells and tissues, focusing on recent findings in relation to bone. We review what is known about how these processes affect polyphenol bioactivity, highlighting gaps in knowledge. The implications of extending the use of polyphenols to treat specific pathogenic infections and other illnesses is explored. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9324685/...
Yes I agree with Andrew. It’s a complex topic. Garrett Smith is now so wrong on so many things imo, that I no longer consider anything he says should be taken seriously. Even less as the gospel truth. He has done some good work in the past, but has now self sabotaged. I was a loyal supporter for over 2 years, involved for another one and now have completely removed myself. In my head everything he has ever said has a big question mark over it. Particularly opinions from the start of 2021 onwards. Before that there was some good sense.
Nutrition is undoubtedly complicated. I think the idea that because Vitamin A is not needed much and therefore the whole of nutrition is wrong is a bad position to take. I would be taking the basic truths about liver detoxification and testing them first.
- Choline deficiency is well accepted as being a cause of fatty liver disease. It also helps you recover from it even more so with betaine. Betaine foods can save some choline being converted to betaine.
- Choline helps form the bile salts with phosphatidylcholine. If you are looking to improve bowel movements then once magnesium and potassium are addressed with no success then you'd be looking at taurine, choline and B1. B1 is necessary for acetylcholine production which is in charge of bile secretion.
- Choline helps liver enzymes especially where too strong initial detox has been triggered.
- Triggering a strong initial detox is not the way to detox the liver in ill people. We know this happens for a significant number so we shouldnt keep using this method. Choline and betaine initially help many people because they have a choline deficiency, methylation and homocysteine problems.
- Negativity and fear about numerous foods isnt the way to run a nutritional programme. Statements that dairy and eggs harm the liver seem to fly in the face of all the evidence of long lived individuals even in recent times. Fish, nuts and seeds for various reasons are also frowned upon. We are now learning that some extra fat seems helpful and these are some of the best sources.
- The lowish fat approach doesnt help gallbladder contraction which may be part of the problem for many people in producing better bile flow.
- A balanced varied diet seems to have benefits for the gut microbiome, lymph movement, bile flow, short chain fatty acids. It seems to me we have had more success from a varied diet.
- No allowance has been made for older women who may be in more need of choline due to less estrogenic based endogenous production.
- The detox uses up B vitamins and they are needed as co factors in enzyme reactions at various stages. It's finally being acknowledged that folinic acid is needed something that Jenny Jones pointed out at least 2 years ago.
- Garrett Smith is not good at accepting nutritional ideas backed with lots of evidence simply because they contradict his low evidence hunches. The big example again is choline.
- Garrett Smith selling lactoferrin conflicts with the rational evaluating how it's working. Censorship in his network seems to lower the ability to judge how well something is doing. Plenty of people complaining of getting into trouble from lactoferrin in this forum. Plenty of people eating eggs in his network also but censorship not allowing them to make their results known.
- Fibre first seems to contribute to the stronger detox and more leakiness. No effort has been made to consider reducing leakiness with choline, taurine and betaine.
- Sulphur plays a major role in liver detox. Yet Garrett Smith says it slows the detox. Cruciferous vegetables because they help the gut microbiome, short chain fatty acids and bile flow. Cruciferous vegetables seem to increase the detox from the people I've talked to. Blocked sulphur pathway is the problem not sulphur per se. Without enough sulphate the body uses workarounds like SIBO which are less efficient.
- Eggs causing harm to the liver is ridiculous. The Japanese with the highest consumption live the longest. No evidence of harmed livers. Eggs and lecithin building up storage of vitamin A is lacking in understanding that the choline helps bile flow and detox.
- Garrett Smith's casting doubt on my egg experiment and me stating it increased detox then made up an eggs/choline thread that was really shoddy work. There is a thread in this forum throwing sufficient doubts on his twitter thread. He doesnt listen or debate the criticisms. How does he ever learn from his mistakes ?
- Garrett Smith is derogatory about everyone. He therefore shoots the messengers and doesnt use critical thinking to sift through the important bits that are correct. We can all learn knowledge from liver detoxification experts. They have far more experience and results over far longer.
Hi @andrew-b, I've been following the @liverdoc on twitter from India, he seems to know a great deal about the liver, but oddly he just recommends to avoid all alcohol, turmeric, aryuvedic herbals and laughs at any and all alternative health theories. He said one egg a day is okay. ONE. He didn't say 4, he didn't even say 2, he said one. Most people aren't just eating one egg a day. I follow many homesteaders who have pastured hens that are eating a large egg breakfast every single day and they aren't healthy at all. One of them Justin Rhodes always has some kind of health problem. His wife had her gallbladder taken out and looks far from healthy. They eat as close to the land as they possibly can, shouldn't their livers be amazing? Doesn't look like it. I think we still need to be weary of eggs despite their choline content.
It sounds like you and Garrett just couldn't come to an agreement and thus have built up resentment towards each other. Everyone has bias based on their experience. Garrett hurt himself with MSM a long time ago so he may have a bias against sulphur. I hurt myself using progest-e so I have a bias against vitamin E. He does come around and say well just don't go crazy with it! people tend to go crazy! I know I do. Someone says hey sugar is good! Then I ate like a cup of sugar a day. Someone said vitamin C to bowel tolerance is healthy then I was on 2-4 grams of ascorbic acid for 7 yrs. Someone says eggs are great and then people start eating 6 eggs a day! He said he doesn't recommend them because most will not do one egg a day. I think those doing red meat everyday are getting plenty of choline anyway.
Quote from Jessica2 on January 8, 2024, 7:40 pmNice move Janelle:
Just because you know one family that eats eggs and happens to be in bad Health doesn't mean eggs cause disease. Now go run to Garrett and tell him what I said why don't you?
I dont need randos like you telling me to reconsider my diet. This is just bad form and it's why I stopped posting here and probably will stop now too.
Just a caveat to everyone else, Janelle might go to Garretts twitter with what you say here so they both can snort and chuckle about how stupid they think you are.
Yes because I disagree with you and Garrett about vitamin E that makes me equivalent to a fentanyl user? That's what you and Garrett laughed about.
Caught! But Jessica do not worry people laugh at others when think they know more than they do. If your humble then your not suffer from Dunning-Kruger.
Abstract
People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities.
"When people are incompetent in the strategies they adopt to achieve success and satisfaction, they suffer a dual burden: Not only do they reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the ability to realize it."
Dr.Smith "It's too bad the forum isn't more controlled. It's like histrionic liberals shouting everyone who is actually smart down over here.."
This is hilarious. His ego is just on another level. The last thing we need here on this forum is another cult where everything what god Smith tells us is nothing but a fact and everything what is not in line with his "facts" will be deleted.
Quote from Janelle525 on January 8, 2024, 2:17 pm...I follow many homesteaders who have pastured hens that are eating a large egg breakfast every single day and they aren't healthy at all. One of them Justin Rhodes always has some kind of health problem. His wife had her gallbladder taken out and looks far from healthy. They eat as close to the land as they possibly can, shouldn't their livers be amazing? Doesn't look like it. ...
I have totally posted about this before (even this particular family!) and it is a real problem that I have seen too (and live it). It isn't just wapfer's either.
I've posted that I think animal feeds are totally screwed up, even the organic ones.
I've also posted that I think there is a limit to the amount of eggs one should eat. What that is, I don't know. But I also think of eggs as amazing food that can make everything from a chicken butt to a chicken beak and they SHOULD be good food. IMO eggs are getting ruined by something.