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Luke's Log & Information
Hi Luke!
Paul Saladino, the salesman of liver products, knows full well that vitamin A is a serious problem especially when eating liver but he chooses to ignore it.
Paul Saladino did a video response after both Grant Genereux and then later Dr. Garrett Smith had been interviewed by Judy Cho on her podcast "Nutrition with Judy".
In that lame and unscientific response Paul Saladino even tries to convince his viewers that the liver doesn't stores toxins it just processes them - just like someone with a full and messy garage is not storing anything but are simply processing it super-slowly.
Paul Saladino seems like a total charlatan to me but I have never followed him.
Here is the link to the video response Paul Saladino did called "Controversial Thoughts: Should you worry about vitamin A toxicity from liver?":
Quote from David on August 30, 2021, 9:04 amHi Luke!
Paul Saladino, the salesman of liver products, knows full well that vitamin A is a serious problem especially when eating liver but he chooses to ignore it.
Paul Saladino did a video response after both Grant Genereux and then later Dr. Garrett Smith had been interviewed by Judy Cho on her podcast "Nutrition with Judy".
In that lame and unscientific response Paul Saladino even tries to convince his viewers that the liver stores toxins it just processes them - just like someone with a full and messy garage is not storing anything but are simply processing it super-slowly.
Paul Saladino seems like a total charlatan to me but I have never followed him.
Here is the link to the video response Paul Saladino did called "Controversial Thoughts: Should you worry about vitamin A toxicity from liver?":
Paul Saladino just comes across as a total salesman to me. Marketing and making money seems more important to him than health. I don't think he's going to say anything bad about VA for as long as he sells liver pills. I don't know if it is true but I've heard he mostly just copied Frank Tufano's material but marketed it better. Frank Tufano used to recommend nose to tail carnivore but now he seems to have changed his mind completely, in one of his latest "what I eat in a day" videos he basically ate a rice, beef and beans kind of diet.
Quote from salt on August 30, 2021, 9:59 amQuote from David on August 30, 2021, 9:04 amHi Luke!
Paul Saladino, the salesman of liver products, knows full well that vitamin A is a serious problem especially when eating liver but he chooses to ignore it.
Paul Saladino did a video response after both Grant Genereux and then later Dr. Garrett Smith had been interviewed by Judy Cho on her podcast "Nutrition with Judy".
In that lame and unscientific response Paul Saladino even tries to convince his viewers that the liver stores toxins it just processes them - just like someone with a full and messy garage is not storing anything but are simply processing it super-slowly.
Paul Saladino seems like a total charlatan to me but I have never followed him.
Here is the link to the video response Paul Saladino did called "Controversial Thoughts: Should you worry about vitamin A toxicity from liver?":
Paul Saladino just comes across as a total salesman to me. Marketing and making money seems more important to him than health. I don't think he's going to say anything bad about VA for as long as he sells liver pills. I don't know if it is true but I've heard he mostly just copied Frank Tufano's material but marketed it better. Frank Tufano used to recommend nose to tail carnivore but now he seems to have changed his mind completely, in one of his latest "what I eat in a day" videos he basically ate a rice, beef and beans kind of diet.
Interesting about Frank. He also was a former Accutane user
Paul Saladino is a smart guy and his book The Carnivore Code has a lot of original information. I don't think he is only stealing ideas from Frank Tufano.
He did not steal from Frank Tufano, haha. The reason Frank stopped being carnivore is because he drank raw sheep's milk, which is high in h pylori bacteria. He gave himself h pylori...now he's doing all kinds of crazy things to get rid of it. It's quite common in Italy for sheep herders to get it, that's where mastic gum was discovered to cure it. Also, yeah, he f'd himself up with accutane.
Paul Saladino preached nose-to-tail a year or so before he started his supplement company...while he is definitely a salesman, I think he actually believes he is helping people.
Frank Tufano is really juvenile, does not appear to be well studied, and is not a trained medical professional. Tufano is pretty heavy on marketing himself...he's not a doctor and decided to make money through consultations and food/supplements.
While Paul has definitely turned himself into a salesman, and is unfortunately closed-minded (at least publicly) about Vitamin A toxicity, he originally came into the carnivore world offering novel meta-analyses of dietary research (and how terribly unreliable it is most of the time), and synthesizing information from a number of scientific disciplines to create a strong, cogent argument for eating mostly meat that I don't believe was articulated before he came around.
I wrote an email to Paul a few months ago, and he actually took the time to respond to me not once, but twice. I expressed my concerns about some of his supplement customers becoming ill from Vitamin A toxicity, and tried to summarize my own story to give him an example of what could happen if you start eating liver when you're already imbalanced healthwise. He basically brushed it off with a reference to the control mechanisms for Vitamin A uptake and told me I should consider adding carbs to my diet. Well, I have added carbs back and I'm still in the same boat, and I knew before I added carbs back that that wasn't the problem.
As willing as Paul has been to change positions after seeing new data, I think he's now unable to publicly change positions on organ meats after starting his company, even if he does realize that they're a problem for some people.
I think it might be a good idea (just to play the devils advocate) to look back on the historical use of liver and liver pills to keep long-term vegetarians from dying. (probably from B12 deficiency) I think that perhaps liver played that role in the olden days because it was a natural form of b vitamin supplementation.
And as we know, vitamin pills are still an iffy proposition these days. I was speaking recently to a guy whose best friend worked at a supplement company and that friend said "don't ever take them"! LOL.
I started wondering if liver could be beneficial (in small amounts) from this thread https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/wahls-talking-vitamin-a/ (in which we picked apart Dr. Wahls protocol, in which a small liver portion a week seems very key to some people curing MS). For smaller people it would be a "child's portion" once weekly.
There is no way to live VA-free on the planet and even Grant probably gets some. And we all highly suspect that we run down the B-vitamins (and other nutrients) getting rid of VA. So, I don't think it is illogical to choose to eat small portions of high-VA foods if you need something from them.
Of course, not polar bear liver, LOL. I've heard nutrition gurus say that toxins get processed by the liver are not stored there. However, I have a tiny little chicken farm and I can tell you there is a HUGE difference between an old liver and a young liver. Young: purple, old: yellow. And that is free range organic.
I guess we kind of discussed such things here: https://ggenereux.blog/discussion/topic/liver-is-probably-healthy-and-why-supplements-dont-always-suck/ .
I have often mused that cow dairy probably contains the "antidote" to VA (in other words things like b vittamins and c) and that if a person was always eating the full product and not a separated product (for instance, a pound of butter and no skim to go with it), that they MIGHT not become VA toxic on a milk-heavy diet. The Masai and the Swiss were very healthy when Price visited them.
I haven't looked much into glucoronidation more than that I know it plays a role. I think most people that have learn about vitamin A toxicity after Grant Genereux's discovery and his books begins to think - how can I make the detox move faster and just be done with it all.
I think it is @jaj that has said something like this which I throughly enjoyed:
Foods are not good or bad, all foods are both good and bad.
This doesn't mean some foods are really bad like say sweet potatoes but I think it means that everyone should be looking at foods that do more long-term good than bad for them.
I think the same concept applies to other things aswell like supplements or other things that you think will help you. The body is full of amazing feedback systems and being generally careful to not overload any of these feedback systems should probably be prio 1. Going faster generally means a lower possible margin of error but when you are starting out you don't really know where your limit is, you have to discover it. My best advice to you is to take it really slow at the start so when you cross your own limit for detox you don't do it going at some maximum speed.
I don't know of any quick cure for liver injury caused by vitamin A and other toxins other than perhaps getting a liver transplant of a non-toxic liver.
[Edit]: I don't want promote anyone getting liver transplants unless they absolutely need to! I think you are only eligible to have a liver transplant if you are already super-sick and on the brink of death. [Edit]
I think looking kinda healthy and being health is not the same. I read somewhere, which had no sources data to cite, that the average lifespan of Masai women was 45 years old. Is it because many children die early or because there are very few that live to an old age or a combination?
Quickly looking to find some information about the Masai and I found this old and often quoted study about the Masai and cardiovascular disease. The 1964 study is called "Cardiovascular Disease in the Masai" by G.V. Mann et. al. I could get the study through sci-hub using the DOI for the study:
https://doi.org/10.1016/s0368-1319(64)80041-7
First of I want to say that I think looking at fringe group that is the Masai is quite unrelateable to anyone here. They live in a real strange culture and do quite strange things so only comparing diets will probably miss the effects of many of these other things the Masai do in their culture.
Anyway in the first table of the study they noted elders as a separate category which I am not sure what it means and these elders are not in the actual study later on. On top of that the Masai didn't keep track of their age so the estimate the age within the study assuming a margin of error of +-3 to 5 years.
"The matter of assigning the age of these people requires comment. Since there is no written record of birth the only practical procedure is to deduce age from the known "age-set" or cohort which each man joins when he is initiated at puberty 22.The matter of assigning the age of these people requires comment. Since there is no written record of birth the only practical procedure is to deduce age from the known "age-set" or cohort which each man joins when he is initiated at puberty."
"It is noteworthy that there were few aged men."
See the attached table of the study participants. 3/386 was estimated to be over 55 years old, 0.8% of those that were tested. 1970 in Sweden at least 13.8% were 65 years or older and 2.4% 80 year or older. To get a number lower than the Masai we have to look at the 90 years and older 0.2% in 1970. I don't think you can compare the Masai to any modern society. Source for the Swedish demographics numbers: https://www.statista.com/statistics/525637/sweden-elderly-share-of-the-total-population-by-age-group/
This could have been because the elders choose to not go even or especially since they got lure to join the study by presents:
"For this study blood was obtained for serologic tests and at the time of examination every adult, both men and women, was given an intramuscular dose of benzathine penicillin. The additional inducements for attendance at the clinic were the distribution of plastic containers, jewelry, tobacco and ochre which proved attractive to these people. There is reason to believe that virtually all the men in the three principal areas of the survey were seen. Since there is no census and no ready way of knowing the exact population this can only be surmised."
Anyway I think talking about the Masai is probably not relateable to anyone here, but even it might be I first would like to know:
Does the Masai ever grow old except a handful lucky ones (3 out of 386)?
I know their is probably problems with the study that they don't know how many of the whole tribe came to participate in the study but that low number age name is still noteworthy as they say in the study. Especially if you believe a high age can be an indication of overall health over ones life time.
Uploaded files:
Price of course rated health via teeth. Broad arches, straight teeth with no cavities, no infections and no missing teeth: healthy.
I think many of us have come to see bad bites and bad gums as possibly being multi-generational high-VA symptoms. Here is a random pic taken by Price.
strangely enough, I found a pic of a masai elder! His teeth do look pretty good, LOL better than mine! To me he looks like a guy who's DNA facial blueprint got completely expressed.
