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Luke's Log & Information
The picture of the Massai looks like he has a more narrow arch. His front teeth are in further front of the others whereas in the photo above that the arch is much broader. I don't know how to describe what I mean only that the curve at the front looks steeper with the Massai with the teeth next to the two front ones falling away towards the back of his mouth more sharply. The photo by Price shows the teeth adjacent to the two front ones more in line with them, falling away more gradually because there is more room. It is a wider smile tooth wise.
In my eyes there is quite a pronounced difference between the two.
I agree, but it seems to me that the Masai are mainly people with narrow lines to start with, and the first photo is of a person who is made up of rounds. My arch is narrow in the way that you say (and I'm made up of rounds) and my front teeth are very crooked (because I was meant to have a wide arch) This man's teeth are straight. He is also sort of "long in the tooth" as can happen with age, but the teeth are hanging in there, even though he is an elder. (and possibly without a dentist?) Not too bad. His posture is also good. If he has VA toxicity from lots of milk, it doesn't show too badly, IMO.
I have posted about my theory that your liver probably is meant to fill about the time your life is over. But some of us get there much too soon. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the Masai do eventually show signs of VA toxicity at the end of life, and that they get crooked in their posture, loose their teeth, get bad skin or whatever.
I am about 2 weeks VitA free. Overall, the most noticeable thing is a pretty steep decline in mental health, cognition, etc. It is hard to separate whether this is the result of a detox symptom or just life. Other than that, my appetite has almost vanished. I'm dropping weight (and I don't have any weight to lose), and usually I have an appetite for meat considering it is most of my diet, but now it is getting more and more difficult to force myself to eat it. There just isn't any drive there or desire for it. About the only thing I crave or desire is sweets. Unfortunately, going to have to add in a cup of heavy cream (around 1000IU VitA) just for an easy 800 calories daily. It is getting difficult to achieve an adequate caloric intake, and the apathy I have towards eating is a little concerning. Will update again in a couple weeks.
Luke, have you considered adding nuts to your diet? This would increase your calories and fat intake without adding vitamin A. Also are you getting soluble fiber as in legumes?
Luke I think the beginning of the detox can be quite tough. Have you made sure all your excretion routes are working well? Dino has written some good stuff about a breathing technique to help detox. Drink plenty of water too. I found that high vA in the system reduced my appetite.
No issues with keeping weight or gaining weight with me. Whole grain low ingredient breads, potatoes, rices, beans, up the carbs instead of meat. I do love meat though and never grow tired of stewed, BBQ, meatloaf, stir fry...
Tonight enjoyed a fine dinner starting with a gin and tonic (of course with a generous twist of lime), pretzels, leftover meatloaf (for cocktail hour) (a few tiny bites of cheddar also slipped past at this point).
Then we went on to baked potato with salt, T-bone steak with a rub of garlic and a pinch of spice, a slice of white tomato from the garden, a bit of white corn grilled with some seasoning on there, a generous portion of white mushrooms and a bit of onion sauteed in a small pat of butter.
Bought an interesting product to try, but we are too full: vanilla oat-milk ice cream. Breakfast is planned: organic oat meal with a spoonful of maple syrup and salt. Today's lunch was tuna salad on a roll. It contained minibits of pickle, golden raisin, white onion and yes we use mayo here.
No one is loosing weight here. Loosing weight quickly can really goof you up! Some suspect it releases too much toxin at once.My own personal mantra for eating is meat and carb. With condiment sized or small-side-dishes of white veggies. Medium-low fat. We are obviously not zero VA here tho. We try to eat as "square meal" normal as possible.
I hope this inspires you to eat! I might suggest that you are feeling frustrated and angry with food. Many of us have gone through non-specific anger at times, it passes.
Not specific to VA, I have seen that "being sick of being sick" and grumpy as heck...happens just before a break through.
Hi Luke.
Sorry you are having a rough time. I don't usually chime in but a couple of things you mentioned made me think of thiamine deficiency and I thought I would share my experience in case it is relevant to you.
I have never been carnivore but went from a low carb diet to a diet emphasising carbs (attempting to gain weight and increase my body temp and metabolism). I experienced a severe thiamine deficiency the symptoms of which included loss of appetite, a feeling that food was stuck in my stomach, and cognitive issues. I thought I had early onset dementia because my brain just wasn't working and I couldn't remember things. It had a different quality to other brain fog symptoms I had experienced in the past and scared me. I also had apathy where I just couldn't make myself get on with things and no energy.
I don't know if any of that matches what you are experiencing but a few days of thiamine supplementation is a cheap and easy thing to trial. I noticed improvements straight away and most problems had resolved in a few days.
Even when eating enough calories increasing carbs from a low or zero baseline can induce thiamine deficiency so it is something to consider.
Agree with @lil-chick and @rachel - both make very important points.
I think that going too low vA straight away may induce too strong a detox. I’ve thought this for a while. I don’t know if I’m right. I favour a more moderate approach to all this. A more holistic and gentle approach.
Hey @luke,
Welcome here! I’m glad you started a log. I was also harmed by the vitamin A worship of the WAPF. 😬 The appetite problems you describe are quite similar to those I experienced when in recovery for anorexia, which I suspect was caused by hypervitaminosis A, thiamine deficiency, and zinc deficiency.
The disinterest in meat I believe to be the result of low HCL resulting from inadequate zinc, which was still a problem for me even after over a year eating low vitamin A with daily beef consumption. It seems the detox drastically increases the need for zinc.
If you decide to consider zinc supplementation, keep in mind you’d want to start low and slow because of your history with mental health struggles and copper supplementation as it can cause severe psychological symptoms if it triggers a copper dump. (I know this from past experience, unfortunately.)
Dr. Garrett Smith helped me to increase my dose of zinc slowly based on my needs, but without testing I would suggest keeping supplementation close to the Recommended Daily Allowance (11 mg for adult males), which means I’d take one 15 mg pill every other day or—at most—every day.
These are two absorbable, high-quality forms of zinc:
- https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/zinc-picolinate
- https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/zinc-bisglycinate-15-mg
For me low appetite was one of the fastest symptoms to resolve after I lowered vitamin A, and if it ever pops up again it is useful as a reliable indicator to determine when I need extra zinc or let me know I’ve eaten more vitamin A than I can yet tollerate.
Hope your appetite improves soon, Luke!
ETA: I have experienced both safe, appropriate weight loss during the nearly three years I have been low vitamin A, and also dangerous, harmful weight loss.
For me, the harmful weight loss was likely related to copper dumping after starting zinc supplementation and stopping inositol supplementation (which protects the brain from copper toxicity damage), so again I stress the importance of caution with zinc.
It’s helpful for me to stuff my face with white rice, pasta, and other refined carbohydrates to prevent weight loss. I generally find a high-starch diet (some high in fiber, some high-glycemic), with moderate sugars (both whole foods based and natural), and moderate fats (again both refined oils and whole foods) to work better for me than puritanical focus on a whole-foods-only approach.
That’s just my experience, though, and I think it all becomes more intuitive as the appetite comes back online.
ETA #2: Don’t take zinc on an empty stomach. That can cause nausea. Take it with food.