I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Male Pattern Baldness
Quote from Guest on March 15, 2019, 11:25 amI think MPB is a lot more complicated than DHT. DHT is a good thing, nothing will make you feel as good as having high DHT levels as a man. Most balding men do not strike me as being the typical high testosterone man either. I have balded some, and now some hair has come back, I think VA is bad for hair growth, and it seems to absolutely tank my testosterone levels if I eat it.
Testosterone is normally correlated with benefits, not DHT.
We know that eunuchs do not go bald. One could argue that eunuchs have lower levels of estradiol and testosterone as well, it may not just be about DHT however we also know that men with 5-alpha reductase type II deficiency do not go bald.
There are three types of 5AR. 5AR1 has more expression in the skin whereas 5AR2 has more expression in the reproductive system. Finasteride inhibits 5AR2 and 5AR3. Dutasteride inhibits all three types.
It has been found in several studies to improve hair growth in men more rapidly and to a greater extent than 2.5 mg/day finasteride.[6] The superior effectiveness of dutasteride relative to finasteride for this indication is considered to be related to the fact that the inhibition of 5α-reductase and consequent prevention of scalp DHT production is more complete with dutasteride.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutasteride
There was a 5AR1 inhibitor developed but it was never brought to market:
MK-386 has been found to decrease circulating concentrations of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in men by 20 to 30%,[5] which is in accordance with the fact that 5α-reductase type II is responsible for 70 to 80% of DHT production while 5α-reductase type I is responsible for 20 to 30%.[6] In contrast to MK-386, the selective 5α-reductase type II inhibitor finasteride has been found to decrease DHT levels by about 70%, while the non-selective 5α-reductase inhibitor dutasteride decreases DHT levels by up to 98%.[7] Co-administration of MK-386 and finasteride was found to produce near-complete (~95%) suppression of circulating DHT levels.[8]
MK-386 has been found to significantly decrease concentrations of DHT in sebum, similarly to the selective 5α-reductase type II inhibitor finasteride.[9] However, whereas finasteride results in only a modest reduction in sebum DHT levels of 15%, MK-386 has been found to produce a significantly greater reduction of 55%.[9] While finasteride decreases semen DHT levels by approximately 88%, MK-386 has been found to have no effect on levels of DHT in semen.[9] These findings are in accordance with the known tissue distribution of 5α-reductase isoforms.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK-386
So to cure baldness we need to work out what is promoting 5AR1.
I believe green tea and to a lesser extent black tea inhibits 5AR1 by the way.
From my research so far and from the study I first posted it seems likely that RA promotes 5AR1 in the scalp leading to excess DHT in the sebum which then leads to MPB.
PLEASE NOTE: I am not recommending any of these drugs which have many severe side effects, I'm discussing their action for the purpose of understanding MPB.
Effect of acute hypervitaminosis A on serum concentrations of Na, K, Mg, Fe, Zn and Cu in rats
Abstract
The effect of hypervitaminosis A on the content of sodium, potassium, magnesium, iron, zinc and copper in rat serum was studied. Results were compared to findings in non-treated animals. The serum content of potassium, magnesium and copper increased significantly, while the content of sodium, zinc and iron decreased significantly in the treated animals, when compared to the values obtained with untreated animals. Possible mechanisms for these changes are discussed, and we conclude that high doses of vitamin A cause a marked change in the serum content on the measured cations.
Blood levels of Zinc are lowered from Hypervitaminosis A in rats at least. In vitro zinc inhibits 5AR1:
Cations inhibit specifically type I 5 alpha-reductase found in human skin.
Abstract
Steroid 5 alpha-reductase catalyzes the reduction of testosterone into the very potent androgen dihydrotestosterone. Previously, we showed that human type I 5 alpha-reductase is expressed mainly in the skin, whereas a type II 5 alpha-reductase is more specifically expressed in the prostate. To assess the possible differential effects of various cations on the two types of 5 alpha-reductase, we constructed expression vectors and transfected them into SW-13 cells, a human adrenal carcinoma cell line containing negligible endogenous 5 alpha-reductase activity. The expressed 5 alpha-reductases were analyzed for their sensitivity to Li, Ca, Cd, Cu, Mg, Mn, Ni, Zn, and Fe. The results showed that type I 5 alpha-reductase was strongly inhibited by Cd, Cu, and Zn and moderately inhibited by Ni and Fe, with 50% inhibitory concentration values of 0.9, 1.9, 2.0, 169.2, and 174.3 microM, respectively. In contrast, type II 5 alpha-reductase activity was inhibited only by Cu, with a 50% inhibitory concentration value of 19.2 microM. The data showed that cations could specifically control 5 alpha-reductase activity expression, which is more strongly inhibited in a target tissue, especially the skin.
Inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin by zinc and azelaic acid.
Abstract
The effects of zinc sulphate and azelaic acid on 5 alpha-reductase activity in human skin were studied using an in vitro assay with 1,2[3H]-testosterone as substrate. When added at concentrations of 3 or 9 mmol/l, zinc was a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase activity. At high concentrations, zinc could completely inhibit the enzyme activity. Azelaic acid was also a potent inhibitor of 5 alpha-reductase; inhibition was detectable at concentrations as low as 0.2 mmol/l and was complete at 3 mmol/l. An additive effect of the two inhibitors was observed. Vitamin B6 potentiated the inhibitory effect of zinc, but not of azelaic acid, suggesting that two different mechanisms are involved. When the three substances were added together at very low concentrations which had been shown to be ineffective alone, 90% inhibition of 5 alpha-reductase activity was obtained. If this inhibition is confirmed in vivo, zinc sulphate combined with azelaic acid could be an effective agent in the treatment of androgen related pathology of human skin.
Garrett Smith thinks that VA toxicity reduces Zinc and B6. Zinc and B6 work synergistically with each other to inhibit 5AR.
This just my experience, but supplementing with B6 and Zn while on the zero VA diet, slowed my progress, once I stopped them healing continued quickly again. I think we get enough from beef and beans, and excess Bs and free Zn seemed too much for my body. I do better not taking any extra supplements. But I am agreeing that we need foods that provide the Bs and Zn... also manganese, copper, molybdenum, selenium, chromium, iron, etc.
So just a warning if some are using free form supplements, be careful to see how you react, and don't push forward if you think they are having a adverse effect.
I wanted to also add, as I completely forgot, it was B6 and extra Biotin that really seemed to slow my progress. Any thoughts on why those two in a combo would slow things down? Stopping them along with the extra Zn, got things back on track. My thinking is that unbalanced Bs are not good, maybe hinders or boost enzymes or processes and getting A excreted is either slowed to a crawl or sent into hyper-drive... either way it appeared to not be positive. So could be a case of retaining A feeling bad, or dumping A way to fast and feeling bad.
Perhaps internal chemistry/toxicity is the overwhelming factor in micro nutrient balance and if one is say low in zinc then it is not normally because of lack of it in the diet but because of the homeostasis being created by the internal environment. If true supplementing would just put further stress on the body to eliminate what is absorbed. Even if this doesn't apply to a specific micro nutrient like B2 for instance then it makes sense to me that just the unbalanced nature of it could cause issues.
The closest thing to a supplement that I would even consider would be unfortified nutritional yeast but I don't take it. Oh and I might take a small amount of iodine if I didn't eat low VA seafood.
I'm curious what others here are doing for iodine if they aren't eating seafood?
Quote from tim on March 25, 2019, 5:20 pmI'm curious what others here are doing for iodine if they aren't eating seafood?
I've read iodine is not added much to food anymore in the US. I started using Morton's iodized salt recently. I have no idea how much I should be taking, just going by how much I like it.
Quote from tim on March 16, 2019, 9:28 pm
I'm thinking that the cause of MPB is this:
Androgen receptors are much more numerous and sensitive in male scalps, especially balding male scalps. AFAIK they are highest in the areas of the scalp that should have the highest level of hair growth. As with lions, human females select men based on the quality of their head hair. The receptors are there to promote hair growth, not suppress it.
That sound's about right. Us bald men are suppose to have the thickest head of hair and very probable, other superior traits such as higher IQ's. Our rulers know this and systemically diminished their biggest threat to their throne.
I am under the impression that my crown area has been thickening these last months. I don't worry that much about hair issues these days so I haven't even taken photos to check for myself, but they just seem fuller in that region.
Hair is overall so much healthier and scalp inflammation vastly reduced.
No changes on the temples yet, but I think low VA has at least stopped the calcification process. Reversing it is a whole other issue of course.
Hair greying on the sides has been halted too but not reversed yet.
I am 32 and 7 months in now.
Maybe some people here know of Dr. Robert Morse, a naturopath who heals people by putting them on concord grapes and herbal tinctures. He has got some interesting views on baldness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mNijxjR6hQ
He speaks a lot about "acids" and "systemic acidosis", but if you read "retinoic acid" and "vitamin A toxicity" instead it begins to make more sense.