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More recent scientific studies suggesting a role for Vitamin A
Quote from Alex on August 30, 2024, 9:22 am@r-2 And I wrote this reply for Joe earlier in this thread but I think you should read it too, as I think you are dogmatic about Vitamin A only being a toxin and I think this idea is far from clear cut
'Was gonna post this on RP forum a while ago but I'll post it here:
I also think viewing Vitamin A only as a toxin is a poor ideology too.
Just because your health issues improved on a low vitamin A diet and just because Grant has been on a low vitamin A diet for 10 years and fixed his health issues neither of those automatically mean Vitamin A is only a toxin.
Maybe you weren’t metabolising the Vit A properly due to your ALDH being inhibited for some reason (lots of things do this), maybe you were toxic in Vit A which slowed down your bile production and going on a low vitamin A diet fixed that issue, maybe having vitamin A toxicity caused you to have a functional deficiency in Vitamin A at the same time and going low vit A made the stored vitamin A more bioavailable , maybe there was a source of glyphosate in your diet or some other pesticide and this inhibited the catabolism of vitamin A, maybe you had mineral deficiencies or metal toxicities causing issues with Vitamin A metabolism, maybe low vitamin A is an adaptive way for your body to operate without vitamin A consumption and there are some benefits to this, maybe you had some pathogen or mold inhibiting your ALDH, there are a lot of possibilities for as to why Vitamin A was causing people issues but I don’t see the Vitamin A is a toxin people considering any of these they just jump straight to vitamin A only being a toxin because they had the experience of feeling better and health improvements on a low Vitamin A diet.
Does it really seem likely that this “toxin” is in pretty much every food humans have been consuming throughout history. If you believe in god do you really think he would make this design error that we have this toxin in most of the food we eat that we all unaware about. Or is he poisoning us all secretly on purpose - doesn't seem likely.
80% of people are slow oxidisers on Hair trace mineral analysis this means you burn through minerals and vitamins at a slower rate which allows you to build up toxicities. Slow oxidisers have reduced thyroid and adrenal activity.
Now if you go on a Ray peat diet as a slow oxidiser it is basically an early death wish and you certainly will have issues with Vitamin A while on a ray peat diet as a slow oxidiser. High sugar consumption, high calcium consumption, high vit A and then you get bad Vitamin A toxicity.'
Sure, I am not being dogmatic, so please enlighten us. I am not against discussion, but when people copy and paste headlines from PubMed without even bothering to do the hard work of thoroughly going through the paper, it just makes the discussion seem foolish.
If you have research that definitively proves something or at least doesn't have logical inconsistencies in the content, I'm all ears. But until then, don't try to act like a copy-paste "scientist" here—that's exactly what @andrew-b and Meri Arthur do.
Quote from r on August 30, 2024, 9:32 amQuote from Alex on August 30, 2024, 9:22 am@r-2 And I wrote this reply for Joe earlier in this thread but I think you should read it too, as I think you are dogmatic about Vitamin A only being a toxin and I think this idea is far from clear cut
'Was gonna post this on RP forum a while ago but I'll post it here:
I also think viewing Vitamin A only as a toxin is a poor ideology too.
Just because your health issues improved on a low vitamin A diet and just because Grant has been on a low vitamin A diet for 10 years and fixed his health issues neither of those automatically mean Vitamin A is only a toxin.
Maybe you weren’t metabolising the Vit A properly due to your ALDH being inhibited for some reason (lots of things do this), maybe you were toxic in Vit A which slowed down your bile production and going on a low vitamin A diet fixed that issue, maybe having vitamin A toxicity caused you to have a functional deficiency in Vitamin A at the same time and going low vit A made the stored vitamin A more bioavailable , maybe there was a source of glyphosate in your diet or some other pesticide and this inhibited the catabolism of vitamin A, maybe you had mineral deficiencies or metal toxicities causing issues with Vitamin A metabolism, maybe low vitamin A is an adaptive way for your body to operate without vitamin A consumption and there are some benefits to this, maybe you had some pathogen or mold inhibiting your ALDH, there are a lot of possibilities for as to why Vitamin A was causing people issues but I don’t see the Vitamin A is a toxin people considering any of these they just jump straight to vitamin A only being a toxin because they had the experience of feeling better and health improvements on a low Vitamin A diet.
Does it really seem likely that this “toxin” is in pretty much every food humans have been consuming throughout history. If you believe in god do you really think he would make this design error that we have this toxin in most of the food we eat that we all unaware about. Or is he poisoning us all secretly on purpose - doesn't seem likely.
80% of people are slow oxidisers on Hair trace mineral analysis this means you burn through minerals and vitamins at a slower rate which allows you to build up toxicities. Slow oxidisers have reduced thyroid and adrenal activity.
Now if you go on a Ray peat diet as a slow oxidiser it is basically an early death wish and you certainly will have issues with Vitamin A while on a ray peat diet as a slow oxidiser. High sugar consumption, high calcium consumption, high vit A and then you get bad Vitamin A toxicity.'
Sure, I am not being dogmatic, so please enlighten us. I am not against discussion, but when people copy and paste headlines from PubMed without even bothering to do the hard work of thoroughly going through the paper, it just makes the discussion seem foolish.
If you have research that definitively proves something or at least doesn't have logical inconsistencies in the content, I'm all ears. But until then, don't try to act like a copy-paste "scientist" here—that's exactly what @andrew-b and Meri Arthur do.
@r-2 Well you do act around here like Vitamin A is only a poison and for anyone who says otherwise you get on your high horse and start being condescending and unpleasant towards them as if you have the absolute truth, so I would say that is being dogmatic, but if you are open to hearing other sides and discussing in a civilised way, like you just mentioned then that would be better.
Fair points about that study I won't use them again tbh, I accept that was a mistake by me.
But acting like Vitamin A is only a poison like its an absolute truth I would say is equally problematic, the points I brought up in my previous post on this thread show there are a lot of possibilities as to why Vitamin A was causing issues other than it only being a toxin.
Quote from Alex on August 29, 2024, 5:40 amQuote from Joe on August 28, 2024, 10:17 pmIf vitamin A is a nutrient then why is Grant and a growing list of folk who are clinically deficient not going blind, not dying and in fact are thriving and improving daily? “Grant is thriving” Sure keep lying to yourself buddy the evidence says otherwise, thanks to @janelle525 for making this comparison picture.
Gaunt looking face, his demeanour is very lacklustre, hair looks a lot worse, definitely not someone who is “thriving”
Almost never sweats btw even after moderate-intense exercise - huge sign of hypothyroidism, his general demeanour is a big sign of hypothyroidism too, intolerant to a lot of foods
And I’m not denying the fact he has managed to reverse his health conditions with this approach that is a great achievement and he should be proud of that but to say he is thriving is simply being dishonest with yourself.
Grant if you would like to prove me wrong then please do a Hair Trace Mineral Analysis test they are not expensive and far more insightful than blood tests, they are showing what is going on in your cells rather than blood tests which are not indicative of your mineral levels in your cells especially for potassium and magnesium. The cells are where all your energy production takes place. I am pretty sure a HTMA will show there are issues with your metabolism and mineral levels. The hair test will show how well your thyroid and adrenals are working or if they are not. Na:K ratio refers to the sodium potassium pump mechanism ie the electrical potential of your cells. The oxidation Rate on hair tests is showing how oxidative phosphorylation is working, which is the metabolic pathway that cells use to oxidize nutrients with enzymes, which in turn allows them to releasing energy so that they can produce ATP.
To me your copper metabolism isn’t working properly, vitamin A is also involved in copper metabolism and raises ceruloplasmin, ceruloplasmin is needed to regulate iron, copper is needed for the breakdown of neurotransmitters. If they were working I think you would appear happier and have more liveliness and energy in your face when speaking, and your face would also be looking healthier and younger.
Have you tried eating any Vitamin A recently, if so what happens, the thyroid does need some Vitamin A. Vitamin A (with cholesterol) is consumed at a high rate by the corpus luteum, when there is adequate thyroid hormone.
@alexm A bit personal posting photos of the owner of this forum and making statements like 'Grant is thriving' 'the evidence says otherwise'. Are you serious??! To me, Grant looks AMAZING for a 64 year old person. Lets address some of your claims:
1) Gaunt looking face... WHAT??... if you don't know what a gaunt looking face looks like, then look at some of the long term vegan doctors on youtube...
2) demeanour is lacklustre... Bit of a personal comment towards the founder of the forum you have been invited on. Well, us engineers may not all have the personality and charisma of Hollywood actors, but that doesn't mean our health is making us that way.
3) Hair looks a lot worse... Are you serious!!! This is a 64 year old man with, as far as I can see, a full head of dark hair, no sign of male pattern baldness and not a grey hair on his head. That is some achievement in my eyes and definitely not a sign of someone who is 'not thriving' as you suggest. I didn't want to get personal here, but since you started it, compare Grant's hair with Andrew Baird's (or lack of it). I think I read somewhere that Andrew is 59, but perhaps he can correct me here.
Other considerations- Grant doesn't have bags under his eyes, or even fine lines as far as I can see. Although his eyebrows are a little less full than the earlier photo, to me they are in no way thin enough to indicate hypothyroidism.
I don't post here very often, but I really didn't like to see, as I see it, this unwarranted dig at Grant's appearance. Why come on here and slate Grant, the man that freely gives out information to improve the health of many?
Quote from Alastair on August 30, 2024, 5:34 pmQuote from Alex on August 29, 2024, 5:40 amQuote from Joe on August 28, 2024, 10:17 pmIf vitamin A is a nutrient then why is Grant and a growing list of folk who are clinically deficient not going blind, not dying and in fact are thriving and improving daily? “Grant is thriving” Sure keep lying to yourself buddy the evidence says otherwise, thanks to @janelle525 for making this comparison picture.
Gaunt looking face, his demeanour is very lacklustre, hair looks a lot worse, definitely not someone who is “thriving”
Almost never sweats btw even after moderate-intense exercise - huge sign of hypothyroidism, his general demeanour is a big sign of hypothyroidism too, intolerant to a lot of foods
And I’m not denying the fact he has managed to reverse his health conditions with this approach that is a great achievement and he should be proud of that but to say he is thriving is simply being dishonest with yourself.
Grant if you would like to prove me wrong then please do a Hair Trace Mineral Analysis test they are not expensive and far more insightful than blood tests, they are showing what is going on in your cells rather than blood tests which are not indicative of your mineral levels in your cells especially for potassium and magnesium. The cells are where all your energy production takes place. I am pretty sure a HTMA will show there are issues with your metabolism and mineral levels. The hair test will show how well your thyroid and adrenals are working or if they are not. Na:K ratio refers to the sodium potassium pump mechanism ie the electrical potential of your cells. The oxidation Rate on hair tests is showing how oxidative phosphorylation is working, which is the metabolic pathway that cells use to oxidize nutrients with enzymes, which in turn allows them to releasing energy so that they can produce ATP.
To me your copper metabolism isn’t working properly, vitamin A is also involved in copper metabolism and raises ceruloplasmin, ceruloplasmin is needed to regulate iron, copper is needed for the breakdown of neurotransmitters. If they were working I think you would appear happier and have more liveliness and energy in your face when speaking, and your face would also be looking healthier and younger.
Have you tried eating any Vitamin A recently, if so what happens, the thyroid does need some Vitamin A. Vitamin A (with cholesterol) is consumed at a high rate by the corpus luteum, when there is adequate thyroid hormone.
@alexm A bit personal posting photos of the owner of this forum and making statements like 'Grant is thriving' 'the evidence says otherwise'. Are you serious??! To me, Grant looks AMAZING for a 64 year old person. Lets address some of your claims:
1) Gaunt looking face... WHAT??... if you don't know what a gaunt looking face looks like, then look at some of the long term vegan doctors on youtube...
2) demeanour is lacklustre... Bit of a personal comment towards the founder of the forum you have been invited on. Well, us engineers may not all have the personality and charisma of Hollywood actors, but that doesn't mean our health is making us that way.
3) Hair looks a lot worse... Are you serious!!! This is a 64 year old man with, as far as I can see, a full head of dark hair, no sign of male pattern baldness and not a grey hair on his head. That is some achievement in my eyes and definitely not a sign of someone who is 'not thriving' as you suggest. I didn't want to get personal here, but since you started it, compare Grant's hair with Andrew Baird's (or lack of it). I think I read somewhere that Andrew is 59, but perhaps he can correct me here.
Other considerations- Grant doesn't have bags under his eyes, or even fine lines as far as I can see. Although his eyebrows are a little less full than the earlier photo, to me they are in no way thin enough to indicate hypothyroidism.
I don't post here very often, but I really didn't like to see, as I see it, this unwarranted dig at Grant's appearance. Why come on here and slate Grant, the man that freely gives out information to improve the health of many?
Check the difference between these two videos there is a big difference, if you put yourself out there on the internet publicly and make bold claims then criticism is to be expected. This is not meant to be an attack on him, it is just a mere observation and I really disagree with those who used the words "he's thriving" they are not being honest with themselves.
Gaunt was a word someone else used on the original thread with the picture but I agree with them :"Honestly, he looks sick and gaunt in his face here. Missing a lot of facial fat, he aged abnormally poorly in 7 years. I'm open to the idea that too much vitamin a could be a toxic, or even any amount, but god damn he really looks unwell, he looks like the beginnings of a walking dead."
My dad is 76, he is overweight and eats a lot of dairy and vitamin A yet he looks younger and healthier than Grant
I'm bringing up his demeanour because someone with a high functioning thyroid should be full of life and energy when speaking and should feel high on life almost but I see kinda the opposite in him. Thyroid blood tests are not really helpful because they don't show if the cell is uptaking the thyroid hormones, this why I would like him to do an HTMA test which isn't expensive.
I'm glad he's helped many thats a great achievement of his
Quote from tim on August 30, 2024, 7:03 pm( ) (removed by moderator) and keep your thoughts to yourself.
Would you say this to Grant in person?
How would you think it's ok to talk like this publicly online and post his photos?
You're not even correct.
Clearly some people have anger issues on here...
The youtube videos are posted publicly it's not like they're private videos...
Also I didn't even make the original comparison picture that was Janelle
So basically what you are saying is we must all praise Grant like he is a god and no one is allowed to point out any flaws or have a different opinion, that's why I was saying earlier some people in here act like they're in a cult.
I have mixed feelings about discussing Grant's appearance at 64. I think people can look great and then have an ischemic attack like my mother 12 years ago or worse. Appearance isnt everything. I think he looks good for 64. Let's leave it up to @ggenereux2014 to say whether we should discuss his appearance or not.
@alastair yes, many people would not have a full head of hair at 64. Definitely thick hair and a sign of good health. The problem with many people is once you go totally bald it's very difficult to recover from it. I dont think it's a fair comparison with myself. Like me comparing kidney scans with Grant. So I began to lose mine at 16 but it's only growing back light hairs at 59 and looks bald still. I have my doubts now because it's not progressively getting much thicker now.