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More recent scientific studies suggesting a role for Vitamin A
Quote from Alex on August 28, 2024, 10:27 amQuote from r on August 21, 2024, 11:00 pmQuote from Jessica2 on August 20, 2024, 3:26 pm@r-2 literally everybody here has PubMed at their disposal and uses it. Unless you are a research scientist conducting your own studies that's what we have available. Meri Arthur forms her own theories based on many hours of going through these studies. You posted many. Are you the only one qualified to read the studies correctly and post them?
Sure, I'm not opposed to using studies, but this guy clearly didn't even bother to read them—just skimmed the headlines and expects us to take his word like he's some kind of 'big pharma' zealot.
The fact that he got caught with his pants down and still hasn't responded to me just proves that Andrew is a complete fraud.
I'd love to see what happens to anyone foolish enough to trust their health to his Google-search 'expertise'.
Another study on how Vitamin A can help the gut microbiome but in more simpler terms. Although I guess there is not really much point in replying to you, as you clearly have already made up your mind vitamin A is a toxin so you will deny anything that contradicts that
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531721000580#:~:text=1.1.-,1.,barrier%20function%20of%20the%20intestines.
"1.1.1. Vitamin A effects on the gut microbiome
Retinoids have functions in every cell of the body, with mucin production, cell growth and cell differentiation most important in the gut as these factors maintain the normal barrier function of the intestines. Dysfunction of the intestinal mucosa alters the permeability of the intestinal epithelium and modifies the production of biochemical factors that interact with gut microbes. Therefore, vitamin A status may affect the gut microbiome via changes to the intestinal mucosal barrier.
Several interventional studies have investigated the direct effects of vitamin A supplementation on the fecal microbiome composition in humans, as summarized in Table 1. A study in 306 infants in Bangladesh randomized to receive a single high dose of vitamin A or placebo within 48 hour of birth showed that boys receiving vitamin A had a higher abundance of fecal Bifidobacterium than boys receiving placebo, however, this difference was not seen in girls. For girls in late infancy, a positive association of plasma retinol with Actinobacteria (the phylum containing Bifidobacterium) and the commensal Akkermansia was found. However, there were no differences seen in the study population overall for Bifidobacterium and Proteobacteria [36]. In a single-blind, non-controlled pilot study, children with autism spectrum disorders completed a vitamin A intervention consisting of a single high dose (intended to prevent deficiency over a period of 4 to 6 months in young children), including gut microbe analyses at baseline and after 6 months in a subset of 20 participants [37]. At follow-up, there were a number of changes, including an increase in Bacteroidales order, Bacteroidia class, and Bacteroidetes phylum, and decrease in Proteobacteria, Actinobacteria, Enterobacter, Escherichia-Shigella, Clostridium, and Bifidobacterium compared to baseline. Although these findings are from an uncontrolled study, they suggest potential roles of vitamin A in modulating the gut microbiota in children with autism spectrum disorders [3"
Vitamin A is also important for the intestinal immune response to pathogens and tolerance to food-derived antigens [16]. Moreover, vitamin A regulates the gene expression of anti-microbial peptides [60]. In a study in children aged 5-15 months from Mexico, vitamin A supplementation increased the duration of enteropathogenic Escherichia coli infections, possibly by decreasing interleukin-8 and monocyte chemoattractant protein-1 concentrations. On the other hand, vitamin A supplemented children showed shorter enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli infections in association with fecal tumor necrosis factor-alpha and interleukin-6 concentrations [61]. Although not fully conclusive, together these findings corroborate that impairment of helper T cell-2 response when vitamin A is deficient (while favoring the helper T cell-1 profile) may harm the response against extracellular bacterial infections [56]."
are you really this stupid ??
@r-2 Nice language, I could say the same about you but I can't really be bothered to get into a petty argument with someone with such dogmatic views on this subject, it's like speaking to a brick wall
Quote from Alex on August 30, 2024, 8:27 am@r-2 Nice language, I could say the same about you but I can't really be bothered to get into a petty argument with someone with such dogmatic views on this subject, it's like speaking to a brick wall
Dogmatic ? Did you even read the paper you posted , did you even bother to do a bit a digging around it ?
@r-2 I use the word dogmatic because you and Joe talk around here like its the absolute truth that Vitamin A is only a toxin and nothing else. And you start being very condescending towards anyone who says otherwise because it doesn't fit with your ideology.
Quote from Alex on August 30, 2024, 8:34 am@r-2 Yeah I read it I wouldn't have quoted the specific sections if I didn't...
Clearly, like Andrew, you only read the title and posted in excitement, only to make yourself look foolish.
Great, now you can explain why you’ve made yourself look stupid.
- Were any real experiments conducted in this paper? None. Literally zero. It’s just cherry-picking favorable results for a variety of multivitamins.
- Did you even bother to check the authors of this paper? All of them are from a company known as DSM Nutritional Products, a company that sells multivitamins (https://www.dsm.com/human-nutrition/en/products.html).
- They didn’t even write this bogus article themselves; they hired a copywriter from birdscientificwriting.nl, who also happens to be listed as one of the authors (Julia K. Bird).
- Any claims about Vitamin A's effects on the gut microbiome and gastrointestinal health are based on animal studies.
This paper is nothing but the "China Study" for multivitamins.
Wait, check this image out. Jesus Christ! They feed babies Vitamin A. Even Andrew wouldn’t suggest that.
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Defensiveness isn't abusive behavior. I can defend my diet all I want, it isn't healthy to do so, but I can choose that path if I want to. Most people when criticized do end up defending themselves even though it isn't mentally healthy to do so. I have been snarky about those who dismiss the theory, and I'm learning not to be. It is clear trolling behavior though when someone says "I tried it, it didn't do jack for me", when there are TOO many variables, I've been moderate vitamin A since 2018 its only the last several months I went super low, but I've eaten carbs my entire life. This person doesn't eat carbs then adds a bunch in and says she gained weight and felt like crap. Then blames the low vitamin A. It's trolling. She clearly knows it was the carbs not the vitamin A.
"Any claims about Vitamin A's effects on the gut microbiome and gastrointestinal health are based on animal studies."
@r-2 Did you even read what I posted? Doesn't seem like it...
"Several interventional studies have investigated the direct effects of vitamin A supplementation on the fecal microbiome composition in humans A study in 306 infants in Bangladesh randomized to receive a single high dose of vitamin A or placebo within 48 hour of birth showed that boys receiving vitamin A had a higher abundance of fecal Bifidobacterium than boys receiving placebo"
"Vitamin A is also important for the intestinal immune response to pathogens and tolerance to food-derived antigens [16]. Moreover, vitamin A regulates the gene expression of anti-microbial peptides [60]. In a study in children aged 5-15 months from Mexico, vitamin A supplementation increased the duration of enteropathogenic Escherichia coli infections, possibly by decreasing interleukin-8 and monocyte chemoattractant protein-1 concentrations.On the other hand, vitamin A supplemented children showed shorter enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli infections in association with fecal tumor necrosis factor-alpha and interleukin-6 concentrations [61]. Although not fully conclusive, together these findings corroborate that impairment of helper T cell-2 response when vitamin A is deficient (while favoring the helper T cell-1 profile) may harm the response against extracellular bacterial infections "
Fair enough about the point about the authors but the article is a review of studies done on Vitamin A by actual scientists
@r-2 And I wrote this reply for Joe earlier in this thread but I think you should read it too, as I think you are dogmatic about Vitamin A only being a toxin and I think this idea is far from clear cut
'Was gonna post this on RP forum a while ago but I'll post it here:
I also think viewing Vitamin A only as a toxin is a poor ideology too.
Just because your health issues improved on a low vitamin A diet and just because Grant has been on a low vitamin A diet for 10 years and fixed his health issues neither of those automatically mean Vitamin A is only a toxin.
Maybe you weren’t metabolising the Vit A properly due to your ALDH being inhibited for some reason (lots of things do this), maybe you were toxic in Vit A which slowed down your bile production and going on a low vitamin A diet fixed that issue, maybe having vitamin A toxicity caused you to have a functional deficiency in Vitamin A at the same time and going low vit A made the stored vitamin A more bioavailable , maybe there was a source of glyphosate in your diet or some other pesticide and this inhibited the catabolism of vitamin A, maybe you had mineral deficiencies or metal toxicities causing issues with Vitamin A metabolism, maybe low vitamin A is an adaptive way for your body to operate without vitamin A consumption and there are some benefits to this, maybe you had some pathogen or mold inhibiting your ALDH, there are a lot of possibilities for as to why Vitamin A was causing people issues but I don’t see the Vitamin A is a toxin people considering any of these they just jump straight to vitamin A only being a toxin because they had the experience of feeling better and health improvements on a low Vitamin A diet.
Does it really seem likely that this “toxin” is in pretty much every food humans have been consuming throughout history. If you believe in god do you really think he would make this design error that we have this toxin in most of the food we eat that we all unaware about. Or is he poisoning us all secretly on purpose - doesn't seem likely.
80% of people are slow oxidisers on Hair trace mineral analysis this means you burn through minerals and vitamins at a slower rate which allows you to build up toxicities. Slow oxidisers have reduced thyroid and adrenal activity.
Now if you go on a Ray peat diet as a slow oxidiser it is basically an early death wish and you certainly will have issues with Vitamin A while on a ray peat diet as a slow oxidiser. High sugar consumption, high calcium consumption, high vit A and then you get bad Vitamin A toxicity.'
Quote from Alex on August 30, 2024, 9:01 am
"Any claims about Vitamin A's effects on the gut microbiome and gastrointestinal health are based on animal studies."
@r-2 Did you even read what I posted? Doesn't seem like it...
"Several interventional studies have investigated the direct effects of vitamin A supplementation on the fecal microbiome composition in humans A study in 306 infants in Bangladesh randomized to receive a single high dose of vitamin A or placebo within 48 hour of birth showed that boys receiving vitamin A had a higher abundance of fecal Bifidobacterium than boys receiving placebo"
"Vitamin A is also important for the intestinal immune response to pathogens and tolerance to food-derived antigens [16]. Moreover, vitamin A regulates the gene expression of anti-microbial peptides [60]. In a study in children aged 5-15 months from Mexico, vitamin A supplementation increased the duration of enteropathogenic Escherichia coli infections, possibly by decreasing interleukin-8 and monocyte chemoattractant protein-1 concentrations. "
Fair enough about the point about the authors but the article is a review of studies done on Vitamin A by actual scientists
Sure, there are human experiments on poor "babies" in two of the papers mentioned there.
But you, once again, show how utterly stupid it is to blindly accept whatever is splashed across the headline of a paper. Do you ever think about digging deeper? Do you ever question anything? Or were you just as easily convinced by the government to take the vaccine? If that’s the case, then clearly no one should be taking your advice.
Now, let’s get back to the paper.
First of all, they gave poor babies in Bangladesh, just 48 hours after birth, a massive dose of 50,000 IU of vitamin A. Who knows what happened to them afterward?
If you had bothered to actually read the paper, you’d realize why you’re an idiot. Abstracts are written to push whatever agenda the author wants to promote. There’s always bias because a paper isn’t going to get attention unless it’s making some kind of claim. It can’t afford to take a neutral stance.
If you had truly read the paper, you would have noticed:
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Vaginally Delivered Infants: At 11 weeks of age, infants delivered vaginally and given vitamin A supplementation (VAS) had a higher abundance of Bifidobacterium in their gut compared to those who received a placebo.
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Cesarean-Delivered Infants: In contrast, cesarean-delivered infants who received VAS had a lower abundance of Bifidobacterium at 11 weeks compared to those who received a placebo. This suggests that vitamin A supplementation might actually have a less positive or even negative impact on Bifidobacterium growth in cesarean-delivered infants.
So, anyone with a functioning brain cell can conclude that the higher abundance of Bifidobacterium is due to the type of delivery. It’s no myth or mystery that vaginally delivered infants would have a higher diversity of bacteria because they are exposed to their mother’s vaginal microbiota during birth. There’s no correlation with vitamin A whatsoever.
Moreover, cesarean-delivered infants had lower Bifidobacterium at 11 weeks compared to those given a placebo, indicating that vitamin A supplementation (VAS) might actually be detrimental to gut bacteria.
God, how can people be so blindly obedient, like sheep, to whatever they read online? I genuinely feel sorry for those babies who were fed 50,000 IU of poison.