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My crazy diet experiments (3+ years)
Yes I know every one of Lorens theories. Watched probably all of his videos. And I also read your entire thread a month ago.
In my opinion he is completely right about fasting, I followed all of his teachings during my fast and the first 10 days of refeeding.
I think I did the fruit diet as long as I could and I never cheated on it as well, but I couldnt continue because it literally melts your teeth away with the fruit quality in Germany. Also looking back I had minor reactions to certain fruits (bananas, tomatoes, maybe avocados) and while refeeding I also noticed I dont tolerate salads as well. Then you lose all your muscle and fat and spend a fortune on buying fruit, it just isnt sustainable at all for most people. And while I was fruitarian only for 8 months, I did a lot of short fasts and even 40 days on just grapes because I heard Dr Morse (Im sure you know him) said that he would do that if he took accutane.
Then I heard Loren say that some people need to waterfast long enough to thrive on fruit. Well I just did that for 20 days. Didnt change anything. I would still lose weight after eliminating the "old hard stuff" and eating 1 kilo of mangos 3 times a day.
I am pretty convinced that Loren is wrong about what our "natural diet" is. If raw meat is really that toxic to humans as he claims, why I had no reaction to it after eating 1 pound of raw beef after 20 days of waterfasting and 10 days of raw vegan refeeding? He claims that after fasting the body sends clear signals if you ate the wrong food. I really concentrated if my body dislikes the meat, but nope, I love meat.
But what was interesting that I got a headache at the 3rd day of refeeding with the mangoes. I never have headaches ever and had none during 20 days of waterfasting, but I get one on the 3rd day of mango. Did my body send a clear signal that it dont wants mango? Maybe.
Why do I eat meat?
Like Loren I also think that we are healthiest when we do what is "natural". After doing some research I am convinced that being fruitarian is completely unnatural.
What looks more likely, that we in a tribe of 100 people would grab 100s of kg of fruit a day while holding spears to protect against predators or that we in a tribe of 100 people only needed 1 person to catch 1 buffalo and it would feed the hole tribe for a hole day?
Also, if we are frugivores why are cats and dogs our best friends and why do they have instincts to give us meat that they have caught themself?
We could never be vegans let alone fruitarians. In the wild you probably wouldnt even find enough fruit for 1 person , but the fact that we always lived in tribes makes it just plain impossible. You would need hundreds of kilos of fruits that a also ripe on that day (unless you wanna melt your teeth away). Completely impossible. Also wild fruits would be even lower in calories than our modern hyberdized fruit because of a lower sugar content.
Also Lorens claims about not needing protein... Well why do most long term fruitarians literally look like they need it (lol). Yea I know, he will say because that havent done 5 long waterfasts with him (how convinient that he makes money this way, right?) to clear all the garbage. I also think "mucoid plaque" doesnt exist btw. No proof for it whatsoever.
Oh and I forgot to mention: Even other primates eat raw meat and lots of insects. Seems like they do need the protein. Or maybe when they waterfast with Loren for a month they come to their senses and listen to their bodies?
No way we are fruitarians, I just tried it because a lot of people have short term success with clearing their skin. And even that didnt work for me.
Watch what happens to most long term fruitarians.
Quote from tim on June 2, 2021, 5:15 amI can't even deal with eating a small amount of raw beef.
Very good point about cooking method. Boiled food, not raw food is longevity food. This was known by ancient cultures, chinese medicine recommends porridges, broths and boiled food for invalids for example. Congee is known as a health promoting food. Thoroughly cooked boiled food puts the least stress on digestive enzymes, not raw food.
I think it's normal to want to eat baked, fried and roasted food though with all the tasty caramelized flavours etc. Eating only boiled food wouldn't be much fun.
Raw food has active enzymes, cooked food does not. You could argue that cooked food is easier to digest, but it definitely puts more stress on your bodies ability to produce digestive enzymes properly.
This is the fallacy of raw foodism.
Most enzymes don't survive stomach acid, additionally fruit and vegetables aren't even high in enzymes. Most food is inedible raw and humans have evolved on a cooked food diet, our dentition and digestive system is built for processed cooked foods.
The foods that are high in enzymes are meat, dairy, honey and sprouts.
Raw meat enzymes are mostly deactivated before the small intestine, raw meat with the exception of beef often contains parasites and less digestive enzymes are needed to digest cooked meat than raw. Aging meat however is a powerful way to make it more digestible and is a smart way to use enzymes.
Dairy is a problematic food for reasons I've explained in other posts.
Sprouts are best cooked as they can contain powerful anti-nutrients and can be a breeding ground for bacteria. However, malting of grains which uses endogenous enzymes to liberate glucose from starch is a smart utilization of enzymes. If someone wants to reduce the need for their digestive amylase brown rice syrup might be a good choice of food.
The raw foods that are suitable in the diet are raw honey, raw beef, activated almond milk, fruit and salad. The enzymes in raw honey may provide some benefit, I don't know. I personally don't consume raw beef. I recommend small amounts of raw fruit and vegetables in the diet but not for any enzyme digestion benefit.
In Traditional Chinese Medicine, raw food is often seen as something to avoid when a person has weak digestion.
Quote from tim on June 15, 2021, 9:18 pmThis is the fallacy of raw foodism.
Most enzymes don't survive stomach acid, additionally fruit and vegetables aren't even high in enzymes. Most food is inedible raw and humans have evolved on a cooked food diet, our dentition and digestive system is built for processed cooked foods.
The foods that are high in enzymes are meat, dairy, honey and sprouts.
Raw meat enzymes are mostly deactivated before the small intestine, raw meat with the exception of beef often contains parasites and less digestive enzymes are needed to digest cooked meat than raw. Aging meat however is a powerful way to make it more digestible and is a smart way to use enzymes.
Dairy is a problematic food for reasons I've explained in other posts.
Sprouts are best cooked as they can contain powerful anti-nutrients and can be a breeding ground for bacteria. However, malting of grains which uses endogenous enzymes to liberate glucose from starch is a smart utilization of enzymes. If someone wants to reduce the need for their digestive amylase brown rice syrup might be a good choice of food.
The raw foods that are suitable in the diet are raw honey, raw beef, activated almond milk, fruit and salad. The enzymes in raw honey may provide some benefit, I don't know. I personally don't consume raw beef. I recommend small amounts of raw fruit and vegetables in the diet but not for any enzyme digestion benefit.
In Traditional Chinese Medicine, raw food is often seen as something to avoid when a person has weak digestion.
It's not a fallacy at all. Raw foods are generally easier to digest, especially if your digestive function is compromised. A lot of enzymes do get destroyed by the stomach acid, but a good 30-50% do not get destroyed. Most of the foods that are completely inedible raw are unhealthy and more or less toxic to humans anyways, beans and lentils and grains (refined white grains have most toxins and enzyme inhibitors removed). To suggest that our bodies were primarily built to digest processed cooked foods is completely ridiculous. The only great foods that require cooking are tubers and mushrooms and some roots. That's not to say that cooking is the worst thing in the world and I personally mostly eat cooked food, but when I was at my weakest I could barely eat cooked food at all without experiencing terrible stomach upset. Traditional Chinese Medicine is largely a pseudoscience, although they do have some good treatments. There is a sliver of truth in that TCM statement, starchy foods do become more digestible the more you cook them, all these trends "al dente" and similair ideas of only partially cooking foods that have to be cooked, undoubtedly leads to more digestive problems. Sprouts is a terrible food choice as they will contain a ton of carotenoids unless they are grown in total darkness.
@salt
Have you studied traditional Chinese medicine in details to proclaim that it is a pseudoscience?
Do you realised that your own example is of no statistical significance and doesn't prove anything?
Isn’t it true that traditionally, warm, cooked food is offered to an ill or convalescent person and not a plate of raw?
Now, I don't care about the discussion on raw vs. cooked food. You do what works for you. However, I would like to invite you to show a little restrain in naming the system of health a pseudoscience as you might appear economical in your knowledge and understanding.
It's not a fallacy at all. Raw foods are generally easier to digest, especially if your digestive function is compromised. A lot of enzymes do get destroyed by the stomach acid, but a good 30-50% do not get destroyed.
That's blatantly untrue, it's widely understood that in general cooking makes both animal and plant foods more digestible. Enzyme survival percentage differs by food so what food and evidence are you referring to for your 30-50% claim? Regardless, it's important to recognize that not all enzymes present in raw foods are even that helpful in assisting with digestion. You're also disregarding the important point I made that fruit and salad vegetables are low enzyme, low calorie foods, they are not good energy sources and it's energy sources like meat, fat and grains that require the most digestive enzymes. Fruit is a terrible energy source as a staple, it's full of fructose and pectin and will not promote healthy gut function in those seeking healing when consumed as a staple.
Most of the foods that are completely inedible raw are unhealthy and more or less toxic to humans anyways, beans and lentils and grains (refined white grains have most toxins and enzyme inhibitors removed). To suggest that our bodies were primarily built to digest processed cooked foods is completely ridiculous. The only great foods that require cooking are tubers and mushrooms and some roots.
You're writing off a class of food that humans have thrived on for hundreds of thousands of years, that we have evolved with. Just because a food that we learnt to make edible in prehistory through refining and cooking is not edible in its raw state is not evidence that that food which we have been thriving on for countless thousands of years is toxic and harmful. How are tubers better than grains? They are not edible raw either. It's very sound logic that human dentition and digestion has evolved since we began eating cooked processed food diets in prehistory. We are no longer physiologically and psychologically designed to live off raw animal foods, insects, nuts, fibrous fruits, roots and shoots like a chimpanzee.
That's not to say that cooking is the worst thing in the world and I personally mostly eat cooked food, but when I was at my weakest I could barely eat cooked food at all without experiencing terrible stomach upset.
If a diet of raw meat and fruit is so natural and healthy why would you not follow it yourself?
Traditional Chinese Medicine is largely a pseudoscience, although they do have some good treatments. There is a sliver of truth in that TCM statement, starchy foods do become more digestible the more you cook them, all these trends "al dente" and similair ideas of only partially cooking foods that have to be cooked, undoubtedly leads to more digestive problems.
TCM is a system of healing that has been field tested for thousands of years. I mentioned it as an interesting sidenote, not as proof or as something to debate over.
Sprouts is a terrible food choice as they will contain a ton of carotenoids unless they are grown in total darkness.
I discussed sprouts because of their enzyme activity, it wasn't an endorsement however the most common sprouts, mung sprouts are low vitamin A and nutritious.
I sort of think that increasing stomach acid might do what we think we want to do when we try to get enzymes from food. I know my two centenarian aunts believed in the vinegar cure. My 93 year old grandfather loved red wine. I think a little wine or vinegar or lemon juice with a meal might just help digest.
(scratches head) I'm not sure about aging meat, since that would really up the amines count and might upset some stomachs. I've sort of given up on marinating. I also think that over-cooking meat makes it indigestible. Jiri is probably right about boiled meat. But wait, don't we hear from Tim how good smoke is for us, and we think about taking charcoal... and charred meat tastes pretty good. Is it ok? Personally, I seem to have a lot more trouble with BBQ *sauce* than I do with BBQ meat. (but again, I need it RARE).. (and lean lately).
Think about a raw onion vs a cooked onion. It seems to me that the cooked onion is sweet and gentle, while the raw is harsh and might kill you before it cured you. However, harsh might helpful if you do need to kill something in the gut. Or if you want to get rid of your date.
When I think of what to serve a convalescent stomach, I think of: bananas, applesauce, rice and toast. I suppose bananas are raw. I think in the olden days they gave gently poached eggs to convalescing people. Eggs have everything, you can grow a whole chick. I can see how that might be helpful.
Another thing I think of on this topic is probiotic food. Kefir comes from the Turkish word 'keyif,' which means “good feeling". If we have good gut flora, life is bueno.
I studied all the stuff about "when your enzymes are gone you are done" in my early WAPF days, and I always made sure to have something raw with each meal. I'm not really sure the raw food helped me as much as these other things above.
Hubs is really into sushi, but it never feels to me like a sushi meal digests any better than any other restaurant meal.
We've eaten our share of spicy Indian food, and I'm often surprised how the blend of spices does seem to help with digestion.
Which leads me to my last point: I think food must be *tasty* so that your mouth waters properly. And it could be that having a strong appetite helps a lot. You want the saliva mixing with the food in the mouth and chew it properly. God I need to stop snacking.
As far as I know beef is generally hung for at least a week which facilitates some enzymatic predigestion. Meat that hasn't been hung is tough. I probably should have said "hung" rather than "aged".
I'm not making claims about smoke being healthy, I've been exploring it from the perspective of vitamin A though.
My belief is that enzymes are imbued with life force (vitality).
In the Taoist world view Qi is depleted through extremes of temperature, intense emotions, excessive sexual activity, pensiveness, excessive physical activity, illness, difficult to digest foods, even through excessive staring... . If one seeks to cultivate life force one practices Qigong, eats easy to digest and nourishing meals, avoids a life of drama, has an inward focus rather than outward and avoids endurance type exercise.
Raw foodists are essentially trying to conserve the same thing but are going about it in an incorrect way.