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NAD deficiency - is this a major issue for vA toxicity/detox?
Quote from
Jenny on February 20, 2022, 11:02 am
Also @ourania most importantly. Nearly forgot this!! If we take the brakes off ALDH we may get a sudden dump of retinoic acid that we can’t cope with. Some people also have bottlenecks later on in the vA detox pathway, maybe at CYP450 and/or glucoronidation. Or they just can’t cope with a lot of retinoic acid all at once.
This is a bit like @beata-2 and the vitamin C. If the vitamin C is slowing ALDH then weening off needs to be done slowly or the body is overwhelmed with retinoic acid.
Those of us with vA toxicity need to do this slowly. High dose vitamin C and NAD deficiency are doing the same thing - slowing ALDH. Anything that takes the brake off needs to be done super slow.
Also @ourania most importantly. Nearly forgot this!! If we take the brakes off ALDH we may get a sudden dump of retinoic acid that we can’t cope with. Some people also have bottlenecks later on in the vA detox pathway, maybe at CYP450 and/or glucoronidation. Or they just can’t cope with a lot of retinoic acid all at once.
This is a bit like @beata-2 and the vitamin C. If the vitamin C is slowing ALDH then weening off needs to be done slowly or the body is overwhelmed with retinoic acid.
Those of us with vA toxicity need to do this slowly. High dose vitamin C and NAD deficiency are doing the same thing - slowing ALDH. Anything that takes the brake off needs to be done super slow.
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puddleduckBeataOuraniakathy55woodDonald
Quote from
Ourania on February 20, 2022, 11:41 pm
@jaj @mat @tim-2 Today we both lost several little crusts we had on our skins for ages. Could be related to the seborrheic dermatitis thread. Feeling fine this morning so we both took 25mg nicotinic acid. As well as B6 + B2 + magnesium. Husband got a flush, I did not.
@jaj @mat @tim-2 Today we both lost several little crusts we had on our skins for ages. Could be related to the seborrheic dermatitis thread. Feeling fine this morning so we both took 25mg nicotinic acid. As well as B6 + B2 + magnesium. Husband got a flush, I did not.
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Jennypuddleducktimkathy55wood
Quote from
Beata on February 21, 2022, 5:47 am
@jaj, Jenny I was researching strophanthus and came across this supplement from Singapore. Not sure if this would be helpful, but here it is: https://rootoflife.co/shop/anti-ageing/nad-gold/
@jaj, Jenny I was researching strophanthus and came across this supplement from Singapore. Not sure if this would be helpful, but here it is: https://rootoflife.co/shop/anti-ageing/nad-gold/
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Quote from
Ourania on February 21, 2022, 8:38 am
@beata-2 I have seen other NAD increasing supplements but at the moment our biggest hurdle is how to face the sudden increase of retinoic acid release. It seems easy enough to increase NAD with cheap nicotinic acid. May be TOO easy! Or am I confused?
@beata-2 I have seen other NAD increasing supplements but at the moment our biggest hurdle is how to face the sudden increase of retinoic acid release. It seems easy enough to increase NAD with cheap nicotinic acid. May be TOO easy! Or am I confused?
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Quote from
Beata on February 21, 2022, 9:11 am
@ourania, Oh, you are right, according to Jenny’s research. I think I missed the point. 😳
@ourania, Oh, you are right, according to Jenny’s research. I think I missed the point. 😳
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Quote from
Ourania on February 21, 2022, 9:26 am
Well, we took only 25 mg nicotinic acid today and this afternoon I have dizziness, blurry vision big time. I MUST stop tomorrow for a couple of days. Hope never dies, does it? I was so happy losing some of these crusts on my skin.
Well, we took only 25 mg nicotinic acid today and this afternoon I have dizziness, blurry vision big time. I MUST stop tomorrow for a couple of days. Hope never dies, does it? I was so happy losing some of these crusts on my skin.
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Quote from
Jenny on February 21, 2022, 1:09 pm
Yes certainly don’t push it if you are feeling worse. You could feel worse even though you are deficient in it. It’s not a simple matter.
I’ve been looking at B12 deficiency today. There is another theory of long covid by Dr Albert Mir saying that B12 deficiency is a major issue. Since covid seems to involve a huge dump of vA out the liver (Anthony Mawson) post covid problems can potentially throw a light on vA toxicity issues. I’ve been looking at connections between the NAD and the B12 deficiency long covid theories. I think they and the vA toxicity covid theory are all connected. Different pieces of the same puzzle. Blind men and the elephant.
Yes certainly don’t push it if you are feeling worse. You could feel worse even though you are deficient in it. It’s not a simple matter.
I’ve been looking at B12 deficiency today. There is another theory of long covid by Dr Albert Mir saying that B12 deficiency is a major issue. Since covid seems to involve a huge dump of vA out the liver (Anthony Mawson) post covid problems can potentially throw a light on vA toxicity issues. I’ve been looking at connections between the NAD and the B12 deficiency long covid theories. I think they and the vA toxicity covid theory are all connected. Different pieces of the same puzzle. Blind men and the elephant.
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puddleduckAudreyOuraniaHermeskathy55woodViktor2
Quote from
Hermes on February 21, 2022, 2:28 pm
Blind men and the elephant.
It's great to watch this thread to unveil the true shape of the problem. Thanks for the contributions, @jaj. I'm learning new pieces of information about the elephant daily. 🙂
Blind men and the elephant.
It's great to watch this thread to unveil the true shape of the problem. Thanks for the contributions, @jaj. I'm learning new pieces of information about the elephant daily. 🙂
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Quote from
Jenny on February 22, 2022, 3:37 am
I know what you mean @christian. I keep thinking I can see the elephant and then a new bit is revealed!
I’ve added an edit to the first post about the importance of slow change. If we have a slow ALDH due to NAD deficiency, then addressing this will take off the brake and speed up this enzyme. This could open the floodgates of retinoic acid formation too quickly. It’s a vital step for getting rid of vA from the body and we definitely need to support it, however, this cannot be done quickly imo.
Four days of 50mg of niacin gave me painful stiff fingers, a symptom I’ve not had for ages. Definitely a vA toxicity symptom for me. I’m thinking a retinoic acid symptom possibly. This and Ourania’s experience have focused me on this issue of increasing ALDH activity too quickly. For those of us here, detoxing from excess vA, this is very important to consider. I’m taking a few days rest and will start back on 25mg of nicotinic acid every other day. 🐌
I know what you mean @christian. I keep thinking I can see the elephant and then a new bit is revealed!
I’ve added an edit to the first post about the importance of slow change. If we have a slow ALDH due to NAD deficiency, then addressing this will take off the brake and speed up this enzyme. This could open the floodgates of retinoic acid formation too quickly. It’s a vital step for getting rid of vA from the body and we definitely need to support it, however, this cannot be done quickly imo.
Four days of 50mg of niacin gave me painful stiff fingers, a symptom I’ve not had for ages. Definitely a vA toxicity symptom for me. I’m thinking a retinoic acid symptom possibly. This and Ourania’s experience have focused me on this issue of increasing ALDH activity too quickly. For those of us here, detoxing from excess vA, this is very important to consider. I’m taking a few days rest and will start back on 25mg of nicotinic acid every other day. 🐌
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OrionpuddleduckAudreyOuraniakathy55wood
Quote from
Jenny on February 22, 2022, 6:34 am
PS thank you @ourania for sharing your experience. It has really made me think about this and look at my symptoms again. I spent a long time at the beginning of the vA detox trying to work out where my bottlenecks were and which symptoms correlated with aldehyde build up and which with too much retinoic acid. This has shone a light on this again. I think NAD deficiency is an important issue, but I also think adding it does several things I know about, so we have to be careful about this:
1. Speeds up retinaldehyde to retinoic acid, via ALDH. NAD is the vital cofactor. Good and bad. Needed to get vA out of body but retinoic acid is the nastiest form. Need to do slowly.
2. Slows down the de novo NAD (kynurenine or tryptophan pathway). In nicotinic acid form. Potentially very helpful.
3. Potentially ‘feed’ NOX enzyme if upregulated. Bad.
PS thank you @ourania for sharing your experience. It has really made me think about this and look at my symptoms again. I spent a long time at the beginning of the vA detox trying to work out where my bottlenecks were and which symptoms correlated with aldehyde build up and which with too much retinoic acid. This has shone a light on this again. I think NAD deficiency is an important issue, but I also think adding it does several things I know about, so we have to be careful about this:
1. Speeds up retinaldehyde to retinoic acid, via ALDH. NAD is the vital cofactor. Good and bad. Needed to get vA out of body but retinoic acid is the nastiest form. Need to do slowly.
2. Slows down the de novo NAD (kynurenine or tryptophan pathway). In nicotinic acid form. Potentially very helpful.
3. Potentially ‘feed’ NOX enzyme if upregulated. Bad.
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puddleduckAudreyOuraniakathy55woodRetinoicon
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