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New interview with Dr. Garrett Smith

#111 · July 16, 2020, 11:38 pm

Quote from lil chick on July 16, 2020, 3:03 pm

@matrixik thank you for the idea about iodine. I wonder whether we are getting enough iodine here. I should test it a little bit. I just really love sea salt.

I suppose the answer of eating iodized salt is popular, but I do want to mention that there may be other ways, such as eating kelp.

I use cheap iodized salt + take this https://www.amazon.com/NOW-Kelp-150-Mcg-Tablets/dp/B000OSQP3E

I used to take lugols solution drops where is like 1mg of iodine in one drop, but I think it can be dangerous..

#112 · July 17, 2020, 4:36 am

Quote from tim on July 17, 2020, 4:36 am
@matrixik

I have read one of Kwasniewski's books about the "Homo Optimus" diet LOL. I actually tried to follow his recommended diet years ago but it was crazy, it was just pure fat! I wasn't sure if his book was an April Fools joke or something!

Yeah your iron would benefit from coming down a bit.

I would recommend against a restrictive diet, one can eat from all food groups on a low vA diet, there's no point trying to eliminate every speck of vA. The diet you eat atm is not nutritionally sound.

Yeah iodine is incredibly important, if you are benefiting from it then your thyroid was underfunctioning. Average TSH is 1.5 so it's probably best to try to get as close as possible. I don't eat much dairy or eggs but I eat plenty of fish. For populations without access to decent fish, eggs and yoghurt/milk are crucial sources of iodine and with eggs, DHA. I'm not a fan of eating much seaweed. Aside from the taste it is high in bromine, an iodine antagonist. It also provides unpredictable amounts. Excess iodine is thyroid toxic. You get the benefit of iodine by having it in consistent normal amounts daily.

While we are talking about halogens it's important to avoid fluoride as much as possible when trying to improve thyroid function. I didn't check to see if you have been taking any sort of medication in the past? In addition to the plethora of toxic effects they have many are full of fluoride.

I don't have any regard for what Smith says. I'm sick of showing why he is usually wrong. I'm just going to get more hate for saying this but you are better off ignoring what he says. Potassium iodide in salt is fine.

Lack of thyroid hormone inhibits the production of BCMO1, the enzyme responsible for cleaving beta-carotene. I shouldn't have to say this but before anyone says this is a good thing, it most definitely isn't. Thyroid hormone is strongly correlated with liver retinol reserves, more thyroid hormone usually means less retinol on average. If thyroid hormone depletes retinol it makes sense that retinol depletes thyroid hormone and iodine. However, it's illogical to prioritize avoiding tiny amounts of vA over thyroid and general health by following a nutritionally unsound diet, it's important to follow a balanced holistic approach to vA detox and restoring health.

From what I have observed, supplementation, especially heavy supplementation typically leads to worse health outcomes. There are many possible reasons for this.

I've had exceptional results with anti-SIBO herbs. Your symptoms are a bit different from mine. I advise you read the SIBO study I posted here recently.

@matrixik

I have read one of Kwasniewski's books about the "Homo Optimus" diet LOL. I actually tried to follow his recommended diet years ago but it was crazy, it was just pure fat! I wasn't sure if his book was an April Fools joke or something!

Yeah your iron would benefit from coming down a bit.

I would recommend against a restrictive diet, one can eat from all food groups on a low vA diet, there's no point trying to eliminate every speck of vA. The diet you eat atm is not nutritionally sound.

Yeah iodine is incredibly important, if you are benefiting from it then your thyroid was underfunctioning. Average TSH is 1.5 so it's probably best to try to get as close as possible. I don't eat much dairy or eggs but I eat plenty of fish. For populations without access to decent fish, eggs and yoghurt/milk are crucial sources of iodine and with eggs, DHA. I'm not a fan of eating much seaweed. Aside from the taste it is high in bromine, an iodine antagonist. It also provides unpredictable amounts. Excess iodine is thyroid toxic. You get the benefit of iodine by having it in consistent normal amounts daily.

While we are talking about halogens it's important to avoid fluoride as much as possible when trying to improve thyroid function. I didn't check to see if you have been taking any sort of medication in the past? In addition to the plethora of toxic effects they have many are full of fluoride.

I don't have any regard for what Smith says. I'm sick of showing why he is usually wrong. I'm just going to get more hate for saying this but you are better off ignoring what he says. Potassium iodide in salt is fine.

Lack of thyroid hormone inhibits the production of BCMO1, the enzyme responsible for cleaving beta-carotene. I shouldn't have to say this but before anyone says this is a good thing, it most definitely isn't. Thyroid hormone is strongly correlated with liver retinol reserves, more thyroid hormone usually means less retinol on average. If thyroid hormone depletes retinol it makes sense that retinol depletes thyroid hormone and iodine. However, it's illogical to prioritize avoiding tiny amounts of vA over thyroid and general health by following a nutritionally unsound diet, it's important to follow a balanced holistic approach to vA detox and restoring health.

From what I have observed, supplementation, especially heavy supplementation typically leads to worse health outcomes. There are many possible reasons for this.

I've had exceptional results with anti-SIBO herbs. Your symptoms are a bit different from mine. I advise you read the SIBO study I posted here recently.

Matrixik has reacted to this post.

#113 · July 17, 2020, 6:10 am

@tim-2, do you have ideas about the acid urine (and possibly other fluids like nasal mucus?)

It does seem to me that just drinking more water helps.

However, that gets me onto the subject of water. Although it is a side issue and not really about VA, you mention fluoride, and there is of course bleach in city waters. Horrible for thyroid.

I watched a video the other day that described how lots of medicines also end up in city waters. Besides these halogens messing with the thyroid, are there birth control pill hormones messing up the sex hormones and psych-meds messing with our minds and etc?

Perhaps we all need to put RO (reverse osmosis) systems on our taps.

#114 · July 17, 2020, 8:12 am

Quote from tim on July 17, 2020, 8:12 am
@lil-chick

Do you mean urine that burns on the way out? I haven't really studied kidney health much. Yes, it is likely exacerbated by dehydration.

Yeah there are lots of pollutants in water, most are hopefully low enough not to cause too much harm. My biggest concern is definitely fluoride though since it is added in significant amounts. It pollutes all food made with it as well as soil watered with contaminated water.

Fluoride is normally added to water supplies at a concentration of 1 mg/L as far as I know. Yet it affects the thyroid at concentrations of less than 0.5 mg/L. This study recommends reverse osmosis for those with hypothyroidism:

This paper compares measurements of the average amount of thyroid hormones (T3, T4, and TSH) in people with thyroid disease (specifically, hypothyroidism) and people without thyroid disease, with respect to fluoride concentrations in two levels 0–0.29 and 0.3–0.5 (mg/L) in drinking water and several other variables (gender, family history, water consumption, exercise, other disease conditions).

The major finding of this study is that TSH values are higher with a higher fluoride concentration in the drinking water, even for generally low fluoride concentrations. This is seen both in cases of untreated hypothyroidism and in controls. In multivariate regression logistic analysis, the independent variables associated with hypothyroidism were: gender (odds ratio: 2.5, CI 95%: 1.6–3.9), family history of thyroid disease (odds ratio: 2.7, CI 95%: 1.6–4.6), exercise (odds ratio: 5.34, CI 95%: 3.2–9), diabetes (odds ratio: 3.7, CI 95%: 1.7–8), hypertension (odds ratio: 3.2, CI 95%:1.3–8.2), amount of water consumed per day (odds ratio: 4, CI 95%: 1.2–14).

In other words, cases tend to have higher TSH values (greater impairment of thyroid function) with higher fluoride concentrations in the water. Controls, with normal thyroid function, also have higher TSH values with higher fluoride concentrations, even though their TSH values are still within the normal range. TSH values are higher (in both cases and controls) with higher levels of water consumption. This is consistent with an association between increased fluoride intake (due to increased water consumption) and increased TSH. It was found that F impacts human thyroid hormones, especially TSH and T3 even in the standard concentration of less than 0.5 mg/L.

Even after the addition of iodine to salt by the integrated program in Iran more than 27 years ago, this study showed that the problem remains unsolved. The results showed that those who consume larger amounts of water per day have an adjusted OR of 4.1 (1.2–14). Hence, the application of standard household water purification (such as reversed osmosis, electro dialysis, activated carbon filter, and other adsorption/ion-exchange methods) is recommended for patients with hypothyroidism since they have a higher consumption of drinking water. The purification systems can help remove fluoride that interferes with thyroid functions.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5805681/

Sufficient iodine is protective against fluoride:

There are several potential mechanisms by which fluoride and iodine may interact to affect thyroid function. First, fluoride interferes with Na/K-ATPase (Suketa et al., 1995; Murphy & Hoover, 1992) and iodothyronine deiodinase (Shashi & Singla, 2013), two enzymes that are important for thyroid function. Na/K-ATPase maintains functionality of the sodium iodide symporter which facilitates thyroidal iodide uptake (Nicola et al., 2014). Iodothyronine deiodinase catalyzes T3 from deiodination of T4 (Bianco & Larsen, 2005), and therefore, interference from fluoride could decrease T3 production, and subsequently increase TSH. Fluoride has also been shown to inhibit prolactin, which promotes thyroidal iodine uptake, lowers T4 secretion and inhibits stimulatory effects of exogenous TSH (Ortiz-Perez et al., 2003; Rillema & Rowady, 1997; Grau & Stetson, 1977). Consistent with our findings, interference by fluoride with any of these mechanisms would result in more pronounced adverse effects on the thyroid gland among individuals with iodine deficiencies because their iodine stores would be more readily depleted.

There is also evidence that despite fluoride's lighter atomic weight, iodine may contribute to increased excretion of fluoride from the body (Xu & Zhang, 1994; Zhao et al., 1998). One study conducted in China found a 40% higher prevalence of dental fluorosis among individuals living in a community with low water iodine levels than those in a community with sufficient water iodine levels, despite both being fluoridated at 0.8 mg/L (Xu & Zhang, 1994). Prevalence of dental fluorosis and bone fluoride concentrations have also been shown to be significantly higher among rats with iodine deficiencies than rats with normal or excess iodine levels, despite both having equivalent excess fluoride concentration exposures (Zhao et al., 1998). These findings imply that deficient iodine intake may lead to increased fluoride absorption. However, more research is needed to better understand the mechanism by which fluoride and iodine interact within the body to affect thyroid function.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016041201830833X#bb0155

@lil-chick

Do you mean urine that burns on the way out? I haven't really studied kidney health much. Yes, it is likely exacerbated by dehydration.

Yeah there are lots of pollutants in water, most are hopefully low enough not to cause too much harm. My biggest concern is definitely fluoride though since it is added in significant amounts. It pollutes all food made with it as well as soil watered with contaminated water.

Fluoride is normally added to water supplies at a concentration of 1 mg/L as far as I know. Yet it affects the thyroid at concentrations of less than 0.5 mg/L. This study recommends reverse osmosis for those with hypothyroidism:

This paper compares measurements of the average amount of thyroid hormones (T3, T4, and TSH) in people with thyroid disease (specifically, hypothyroidism) and people without thyroid disease, with respect to fluoride concentrations in two levels 0–0.29 and 0.3–0.5 (mg/L) in drinking water and several other variables (gender, family history, water consumption, exercise, other disease conditions).

The major finding of this study is that TSH values are higher with a higher fluoride concentration in the drinking water, even for generally low fluoride concentrations. This is seen both in cases of untreated hypothyroidism and in controls. In multivariate regression logistic analysis, the independent variables associated with hypothyroidism were: gender (odds ratio: 2.5, CI 95%: 1.6–3.9), family history of thyroid disease (odds ratio: 2.7, CI 95%: 1.6–4.6), exercise (odds ratio: 5.34, CI 95%: 3.2–9), diabetes (odds ratio: 3.7, CI 95%: 1.7–8), hypertension (odds ratio: 3.2, CI 95%:1.3–8.2), amount of water consumed per day (odds ratio: 4, CI 95%: 1.2–14).

In other words, cases tend to have higher TSH values (greater impairment of thyroid function) with higher fluoride concentrations in the water. Controls, with normal thyroid function, also have higher TSH values with higher fluoride concentrations, even though their TSH values are still within the normal range. TSH values are higher (in both cases and controls) with higher levels of water consumption. This is consistent with an association between increased fluoride intake (due to increased water consumption) and increased TSH. It was found that F impacts human thyroid hormones, especially TSH and T3 even in the standard concentration of less than 0.5 mg/L.

Even after the addition of iodine to salt by the integrated program in Iran more than 27 years ago, this study showed that the problem remains unsolved. The results showed that those who consume larger amounts of water per day have an adjusted OR of 4.1 (1.2–14). Hence, the application of standard household water purification (such as reversed osmosis, electro dialysis, activated carbon filter, and other adsorption/ion-exchange methods) is recommended for patients with hypothyroidism since they have a higher consumption of drinking water. The purification systems can help remove fluoride that interferes with thyroid functions.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5805681/

Sufficient iodine is protective against fluoride:

There are several potential mechanisms by which fluoride and iodine may interact to affect thyroid function. First, fluoride interferes with Na/K-ATPase (Suketa et al., 1995; Murphy & Hoover, 1992) and iodothyronine deiodinase (Shashi & Singla, 2013), two enzymes that are important for thyroid function. Na/K-ATPase maintains functionality of the sodium iodide symporter which facilitates thyroidal iodide uptake (Nicola et al., 2014). Iodothyronine deiodinase catalyzes T3 from deiodination of T4 (Bianco & Larsen, 2005), and therefore, interference from fluoride could decrease T3 production, and subsequently increase TSH. Fluoride has also been shown to inhibit prolactin, which promotes thyroidal iodine uptake, lowers T4 secretion and inhibits stimulatory effects of exogenous TSH (Ortiz-Perez et al., 2003; Rillema & Rowady, 1997; Grau & Stetson, 1977). Consistent with our findings, interference by fluoride with any of these mechanisms would result in more pronounced adverse effects on the thyroid gland among individuals with iodine deficiencies because their iodine stores would be more readily depleted.

There is also evidence that despite fluoride's lighter atomic weight, iodine may contribute to increased excretion of fluoride from the body (Xu & Zhang, 1994; Zhao et al., 1998). One study conducted in China found a 40% higher prevalence of dental fluorosis among individuals living in a community with low water iodine levels than those in a community with sufficient water iodine levels, despite both being fluoridated at 0.8 mg/L (Xu & Zhang, 1994). Prevalence of dental fluorosis and bone fluoride concentrations have also been shown to be significantly higher among rats with iodine deficiencies than rats with normal or excess iodine levels, despite both having equivalent excess fluoride concentration exposures (Zhao et al., 1998). These findings imply that deficient iodine intake may lead to increased fluoride absorption. However, more research is needed to better understand the mechanism by which fluoride and iodine interact within the body to affect thyroid function.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016041201830833X#bb0155

#115 · July 17, 2020, 8:43 am

Reverse osmosis appears to be the best solution but perhaps lose dose iodine supplementation is a more practical one?

#116 · July 17, 2020, 8:45 am

@tim-2 I think everybody should take 150-300mcg a day...

#117 · July 17, 2020, 10:23 am

@orion I think benfotiamin works. My muscles feel full even day after decent workout. I am finding myself flexing and doing dips and L sit in the kitchen all the time lol. 😀 Today I took it with breakfast and I forget that you need to up your carbs. I had only 80g of brown rice and 2 hours later when I was riding my bike in the city I felt hypoglycemic.. Last 5-7 years I wondered what is going on that when I eat carbs. I don't feel like my muscle glycogen is replenished anymore like it used to during my bodybuilding days.. That carbs actually cause just sore muscles( a lot of lactic acid) and inflammation like puffy face... I was thinking that it must be bad thyroid.. But now I think that it really was B1 deficiency. When I was bodybuilding eating crazy amounts of white rice. I think I was barely having enough with some B complex. But when I stopped bodybuilding and started riding long 3-5 hour rides on road bike and consuming a lot of simple carbs for energy. That was also the time when I crashed hard. I think it was also the time when my B1 completely dropped to zero..

#118 · July 17, 2020, 12:41 pm

Quote from tim on July 17, 2020, 4:36 am

@matrixik

I have read one of Kwasniewski's books about the "Homo Optimus" diet LOL. I actually tried to follow his recommended diet years ago but it was crazy, it was just pure fat! I wasn't sure if his book was an April Fools joke or something!

I've had exceptional results with anti-SIBO herbs. Your symptoms are a bit different from mine. I advise you read the SIBO study I posted here recently.

There are normal people living on this diet for 30 and more years. By their approximation around 2 million people eat like that now. It's not keto and he advise to be close to ketosis but not in it all the time. There are places in Poland where you go for 2 weeks and you eat it all the time with lessons how to do it. Actually it was quite tasty and felt like normal food that was prepared by my grandma. First 2-3 days was strange because of how "empty" you feel. And as I wrote I was almost acne free at the end of this 2 weeks (even that I was eating dairy daily there that suppose to make acne worser).

This study about SIBO?: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3099351/