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New interview with Dr. Garrett Smith
Do CZ people tend to have a higher vA diet than other Europeans or lower do you think?
I read that CZ has the highest rate of male pattern baldness in the world. Maybe they are more genetically susceptible to it, I also read that CZ is a low iodine area. Do you have any ideas for why it is so high in CZ?
I will give up now as this sort of negative conversation is not something I want to be involved in - but just to say one last thing - many of the assumptions you have here about Dr Smith’s opinions are simply not correct. I find the negativity directed towards the only naturopath actually exploring vA toxicity quite frankly weird & extremely unhelpful.
@tim-2 We have also very high amounts of colon cancer.. I think our "traditional diet" is really bad. It is full of wheat flour, sugar, the worst fats so vegetable oils, pork and poultry fat + a lot of alcohol drinking especially beer. There is also good amount of days without sun. A lot of stress from low income( for example people next to us in Austria, Germany they make like 4-5 times more for the same job..). In terms of vit A intake. I would say it is low in general as we eat mostly regular potatoes, white flour, meats, oils.. Not many people eat things like organ meats, vegetables high in beta carotene etc. and if they do. Those are mostly people from small villages that work around their house in gardens, with animals. SO they are active all day outside. They will handle vit A much better.. My grandma was crazy fit and active even in her 80s.. But that was that old generation growing up without any toxic exposures etc.. Anyway I would say a lot of stress from working hard for less money than in other western countries, smoking, alcohol, diet high in bad calories low in key micronutrients will be the main culprit..
RE: Scurvy
Of course, most cases of scurvy were reported by sailors, who would have been eating fish, and fish oils oxidized by air. So, could scurvy really be caused by vA toxicity? It’s at least possible.
Also, note that the British navy was quite successful in treating and preventing scurvy by eliminating fish and adopting oatmeal instead. Here’s just an example reference.
https://www.historyhit.com/what-did-sailors-in-the-georgian-royal-navy-eat/
Additionally, a number of people have now reported self induced scurvy by consuming cod liver oil.
Next, consider this rather direct evidence of vitamin A toxicity inducing the condition.
CONCERNING THE TOXICITY OF VITAMIN A
EDWABD B. VEDDEB AND CHABLES BOSENBEBG
Department of Experimental Medicine, George Washington University Medical School
(Beceived for publication December 17, 1937)
Since the rat is known to be capable of synthesizing vitamin C and is not susceptible to scurvy, it is difficult to explain this action of vitamin C. A possible explanation is that vitamin C destroys the toxic factor and that all the vitamin C synthesized by the rat is used up in this process, leaving it susceptible to scurvy. Scurvy of the rat has never been described, but the symptoms produced by fish liver oils are not unlike scurvy; they include failure to grow, hemorrhages, particularly from the eyes and nose but to some extent from other mucous membranes, and abnormal rarefaction and fragility of the bones.
Then, if you are following what is going on in the carnivore diet community, scurvy is not being reported. That’s rather odd isn’t for people 5+ years with no apparent source of vit C?
@ggenereux2014 interesting.. Btw I wonder if they really were all eating liver oil? Because fish meat will not give you vit A toxicity.. Even if you eat like 1kg of mackerel for example it is still under 2000iu of vit A and almost 5000iu of vit D3... That is fish high in fat soluble vitamins. Fish like cod has almost no fat soluble vitamins.. You can eat 10kg a day without even reach 800iu of vit A..
Hi @jiri,
Yes, I totally agree that just eating fish would not cause harm, not even over say 10+ years. But, I did read that it was a common practice aboard the navy ships to harvest the fish liver and let it ferment in a barrel. (Sorry, I don't have a reference handy).
Somewhat related, I was for a long time wondering what happened to the liver of cod fish harvested from Atlantic Canada. Turns out, it was canned and sold separately ( and still is).
But, my real point was that oatmeal was used as a moderately effective treatment for scurvy, and oatmeal has virtually no vit C. So, it was not an increase in vitamin C that prevented the scurvy condition. Rather, I think it was that the oatmeal displaced the fish (and fish oils) in the diet. Admittedly, lots of speculation. So, I'm really keen to see what happens to the carnivore diet followers over the long term who are regularly including liver in their diets. It's almost the perfect natural experiment of this vA toxicity theory.
@ggenereux2014 also rancid cod liver oil can deplete vit C by a lot of oxidation? So if they stop eating it the body will regain some homeostasis maybe..
Quote from Jiří on July 4, 2020, 12:20 am...People in CZ are beer people. I don't drink at all. So I am outcast..
@jiri I just learned this week that my great grandparents were from Silesia, which seems to be an area that the borders change and it isn't Germany now? They spoke German and had German last names. They came in the late 1800's . Would love to hear anything you might have to say about this. My great grandfather made beer and wine in his spare time.
I recently saw a video about making your own fish sauce and the difference between just letting fish get rancid, and making something edible, is Salt.
Quote from Jiří on July 4, 2020, 11:10 am@ggenereux2014 also rancid cod liver oil can deplete vit C by a lot of oxidation? So if they stop eating it the body will regain some homeostasis maybe..
That's really interesting. Thanks.
Here's an example product.
https://www.amazon.com/Officer-Smoked-Cod-Liver-4-26/dp/B0001HAF48
Hi @lil-chick:
Oh, that's really interesting. I know that fish sauce was very popular with the British, and with the Chinese of course. I wondered what they were producing by saving the fish livers in a barrel and letting it ferment in the sun. That could explain it.