I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Nine Year Update
Quote from Jiří on August 22, 2023, 5:35 am@r-2 you can detox all kinds of things by exercise. Gbolduev was talking about this all the time. In my worst point I was doing nothing, because I was believing that you have to just stay home and relax to heal adrenals etc.. But if you are already toxic and you slow everything down in the body. You will not detox anything obviously.. By increasing adrenaline during exercise you dump all kinds of toxins.. Btw nobody is talking about excessive perspiration is healthy. Normal sweating is healthy. If you are o the sun in 35 celsius it is completely normal to start sweating as your body temperature rises. Detoxing in the sauna is great example. Every single person will tell you that in their worst they couldn't sweat at all in sauna and as their health improved they started sweating more easily. When I was insanely hypothyroid I couldn't sweat at all. Healthy people sweat(during times when their body temperature goes up from exercise or hot environment) from all pores on their body face, legs, hands, fingers.. To say like somebody here that sweating is just stress reaction from estrogen etc.. you can't compare sweating from hot flashes during the night to sweating from sauna or exercise lol...
I may be slightly of the general topic (at least of this forum) now but I think it's worth commenting on it. It's maybe a bit confusing that I use the term stress-reaction, but it's from a physiological point of view. Exercise also induces stress even if I agree that it on average is healthy (at least compared to being completly sedentary) , though when I was detoxing the hardest I wasnt able to exercise at all- luckily now I have started to tolerate it again. I also agree that an inability to sweat is a bad thing. Its the mechanism I was trying to describe - as I see you quote gbolduev from ray peat forum I assume you are familiar with dr. Peats idea and my description of the mechanisms of sweating I first descovered through dr.Peat. SO what I was trying to underline is the mechainsms responsible for making the body sweat. I doubt that you really think the medical understanding of how sweating occurs actually is all wrong? (Im open for that too but find it unlikely). Im sorry if it sounds condecending its not my purpose.
I personally must say that the sicker I get the more I sweat, but also yes, being hypo made me unable to sweat. I think its important to separate the mechanisms from the individual experiences if not taken in context. I cant know if Grant is hypo, but I am not inclined to think so. It's also worth noting that the complexity of how much you need to sweat is far higher then what our discussion here might lead one to think. If you look at individual adaptions to heat they include a lot more than sweating and the mentioned hormone reactions. I think a good example is the reduced sweating in beduines. The marathon the sabre is one of the most gruelling ultra-marathons in the world and is going through sahara for days. The contestants drinks a huge amount of water to get through. But the amount they need is extremely different. An english ultra-marathoner was monitored in laboratory how much water he used during exercise at the same conditions as in the race having him run on threadmill, weighing him, having him breath with a mask and monitoring his sweat and the air-humidity (Im not able to completly remember the procedure) and then they did the same to most succesfull participant of that race during the last 15 years, a guy (morockon?) of beduin origin. While the english runner was a bit heavier (higher body mass due to size), the english runner had to replenish something like 11 liters of water an hour (think 60 degree heat) an the beduin guy about 3.5liters!!
Obviously his body was less bothered he wasnt just dying from hypothyroidism.
I think the clue here, as I was trying to get at in my previous post on the subject, is that his body was handling the heat better an thus didnt need to upregulate the sweating as much to keep from overheating.
I think one possible reason for this is how much of the energy-production from cell metabolism that goes to producing heat. This is largely a question of uncoupled cellular respiration if as far as I know and is one of the reasons drugs like bromocryptin is used in bodybuilding. It makes the body convert more of the ingested energy to heat instead of cellular fuel. It's actually been discovered even more effective drugs that do this but they have been banned (so has Bromo many places) because they can actually make the body convert almost ALL the energy from food to pure heat. It makes you lean but it also makes you dead.. from overheating as, in practice it makes you have a fever and no extra energy. Im not describing all this to promote any ideas of drugs, but it shows very well how the heat production is adjustable outside of both sweating and metabolism. In this case by drugs, but it highlights the mechanisms. So if your body directs less of the energy to cellular heat production it doesnt mean you are hypothyroid or that you have lowered bodytemps, as long as the heat-production ability is flexible. If your body downregulates cellular heat production during times with higher temprature around you, or during exercise, you would need to sweat less to stay stable. If the heat production dont get turned back up in a cold enviroment or after the cessation of exercise then you would have a problem. As illustrated by the marockan runner. I also noted that Grant got less affected by cold, so that indicates that his body now has gotten better at redirecting energy to heat as well, indicating its probable that his body has gotten more efficient at energy regulation, as sweating is not bad but ist only one of the factors involved in keeping a balanced body temp.
@jiri Is right, not sweating much is a sign of slow metabolism and the bodies detox capabilities being shut off. I know this myself because it’s something I experience frequently. I do actually prefer being in slow oxidation as I find it relaxing, more grounding and easier to think.
Being at a lower metabolism can actually make people with autoimmune and neurological diseases feel better as a lower oxidation rate means less oxidative stress which is easier for their bodies to handle because they have poor glutathione recycling due to toxicities. That’s why things like keto diet helps people so much with autoimmune diseases and MS because it kills oxidation. Likewise with low Vitamin A and low PUFA do similar things.
When I take the TEI metabolic pack for slow oxidisers which has Vitamin A, I start sweating and I start detoxing properly, my energy and motivation is increased significantly but I am way more sensitive to stress and stressors as the oxidation rate is increased. And it’s too much for my body to handle at this point in time and with my living situation.
Crocodiles can live 100 years and they have a very slow metabolism. If Grant can’t eat onions without a bad reaction then I think he is toxic in heavy metals. It would be better for Grant to do a Hair Trace Mineral Analysis where we can see what his metabolic rate is like and also his mineral status and ratios. Blood tests aren’t really useful as they don’t give any idea about what’s going on at a cellular level. Serum retinol is the only blood test I think he should do.
Quote from Jessica2 on August 22, 2023, 3:33 pmAll 3 women though had previous miscarriages and all 3 women had hoped low VA would help that but it didn't.
@jessica2, it would be very helpful to know what years those miscarriages occurred. We know that recent events have apparently introduced a new toxin into the world and that some claim it causes miscarriage, even through coworkers/other associations that had a certain shot.
@jessica2
Yeah vitamin A is a problem for everyone in excess, it's just that the ability to metabolize it varies by the individual.
What I'm interested in is understanding what the optimal range of intake is. There's too many factors involved to work it out via maths equations but if one is willing to they can use serum retinol tests to work out the minimum amount of dietary vitamin A needed to keep them out of deficiency. The optimal intake for them is probably just a bit higher than that.
Same principle with iron. Optimal serum ferritin is probably just a little higher than what causes anemia.
Just understanding what minerals and fat soluble vitamins the liver bioaccumulates clues us in to the nutrients that are more problematic in excess. That's vitamin A, iron and copper.
I suspect but I don't have a firm conviction yet that an optimal diet for many is low (but not devoid of) in red meat, dairy, nuts, fruits and vegetables. A diet where most of the calories come from refined white (folic acid free) wheat flour and to a lesser extent sugar and unhydrogenated lard. A diet with a conservative protein (methionine) intake.
It may turn out that homemade cake made from flour, sugar, lard, eggs and milk is the ultimate superfood.
@alexm from my experience I agree with Dr.Smith on this one. For some things is better blood work especially iron and copper. You can have low iron on hair tests all the time, but your ferritin can be very high.. Same with low copper on hair test, but very high free copper in the blood.. The best approach is to do both to see the full picture.. Also measuring hormones and thyroid panel is very helpful. Just hair test alone is not the best way..
@jiri Oh yeah for sure I think blood testing for iron markers are good I was never denying that, I was just saying as Grant mentioned the blood tests in his country were expensive. So Serum Retinol would be the most important one out of the bunch. And hair test we can see his oxidation rate and ratios like Ca:K which is the thyroid ratio. As he has already done blood testing for thyroid markers etc a couple of years ago. I have seen that people can have normal blood thyroid markers yet have high CA:K meaning there is thyroid dysfunction going on at a cellular level.
Low Iron on a hair test is bad news means your iron metabolism has been shut off. I had that for a lot of my first HTMAs and my ferritin was high. When my iron increased in my HTMAs my health improved.
Quote from AlexM on August 23, 2023, 1:12 am@jiri Oh yeah for sure I think blood testing for iron markers are good I was never denying that, I was just saying as Grant mentioned the blood tests in his country were expensive. So Serum Retinol would be the most important one out of the bunch. And hair test we can see his oxidation rate and ratios like Ca:K which is the thyroid ratio. As he has already done blood testing for thyroid markers etc a couple of years ago. I have seen that people can have normal blood thyroid markers yet have high CA:K meaning there is thyroid dysfunction going on at a cellular level.
Low Iron on a hair test is bad news means your iron metabolism has been shut off. I had that for a lot of my first HTMAs and my ferritin was high. When my iron increased in my HTMAs my health improved.
What do you mean with the ca:k ratio?? calsium to potassium?? how is that showing thyroid
“Calcium/Potassium (Ca/K) Ratio:
Called the thyroid ratio because calcium and potassium play a vital role in regulating thyroid activity.
Does not always correlate with blood thyroid tests because hair analysis is a tissue test. Often blood tests will be normal but hair analysis will indicate an impaired thyroid function. Sometimes symptoms of hypothyroidism may be evident, but the hair test will show a hyperactive thyroid ratio. For nutritional correction, it is prudent to follow the hair analysis indication.
HIGH CALCIUM/POTASSIUM (Ca/K) AND HYPOTHYROIDISM:
High calcium relative to potassium will frequently indicate a trend toward hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). The mineral calcium antagonizes the retention of potassium within the cell. Since potassium is necessary for sufficient quantity to sensitize the tissues to the effects of thyroid hormones, a high Ca/K ratio would suggest reduced thyroid function and/or cellular response to thyroxine. If this imbalance has been present for an extended period of time, the following symptoms associated with low thyroid function may occur.”
Quote from AlexM on August 23, 2023, 4:05 am“Calcium/Potassium (Ca/K) Ratio:
Called the thyroid ratio because calcium and potassium play a vital role in regulating thyroid activity.
Does not always correlate with blood thyroid tests because hair analysis is a tissue test. Often blood tests will be normal but hair analysis will indicate an impaired thyroid function. Sometimes symptoms of hypothyroidism may be evident, but the hair test will show a hyperactive thyroid ratio. For nutritional correction, it is prudent to follow the hair analysis indication.HIGH CALCIUM/POTASSIUM (Ca/K) AND HYPOTHYROIDISM:
High calcium relative to potassium will frequently indicate a trend toward hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid). The mineral calcium antagonizes the retention of potassium within the cell. Since potassium is necessary for sufficient quantity to sensitize the tissues to the effects of thyroid hormones, a high Ca/K ratio would suggest reduced thyroid function and/or cellular response to thyroxine. If this imbalance has been present for an extended period of time, the following symptoms associated with low thyroid function may occur.”
Thanks for clarifying- I would though have to question the validity of that. It might be somewhat indicative but to be honest it sounds like someone (not you!) is selling something? It seems like a very unreliable marker. I would suggest checking the PTH instead as that actually shows if the calcium is artificially elevated. I havent seen any serious articles seeing this direct connection - And potassium/calcium in the cell is regulated by sodium and estrogen primarily as far as I know (yes thats a gross simplification but trying to make it discussable). But if you have any sources Im interested 🙂
@henrik Not many people know something about hair testing. You have to learn at least the basics to see how it works. I think it is great especially for trace minerals and heavy metals. But for other things it is best to do blood work as well. Like you say PTH can tell you a lot about your calcium metabolism.. Ideally people should do hair/blood testing every 3-6 months.. So you can see the pattern in which direction things go.