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Not being able to fall back asleep
Quote from
Hermes on December 12, 2022, 6:05 am
The newest revelation to me is realizing how important choline is for liver health and the support of the stomach lining. Eggs don't work, but a sunflower lecithin supplement does the trick: I've had some really great sleep with it. And here's the BUT: Recently I started to wake up early in the morning without being able to fall back asleep. It's pretty distressing, and throughout the day I notice the sleep deficit. Usually, I need a solid ten hours of sleep to feel right in my mind. Has anyone experienced similar issues? What has helped you to get back to sleep again?
One thing to notice: I have SIBO which is yet to be cleared up. I strongly suspect that it's very relevant for proper sleep.
The newest revelation to me is realizing how important choline is for liver health and the support of the stomach lining. Eggs don't work, but a sunflower lecithin supplement does the trick: I've had some really great sleep with it. And here's the BUT: Recently I started to wake up early in the morning without being able to fall back asleep. It's pretty distressing, and throughout the day I notice the sleep deficit. Usually, I need a solid ten hours of sleep to feel right in my mind. Has anyone experienced similar issues? What has helped you to get back to sleep again?
One thing to notice: I have SIBO which is yet to be cleared up. I strongly suspect that it's very relevant for proper sleep.
Andrew B has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Andrew B on December 12, 2022, 6:31 am
@christian yes, once you realise the truth with what's happening with prolonged use of the eggs, higher choline foods or a lecithin supplement then you can never go back 🙂 I'm screaming - the detox gets stronger ! Absorption improves, sleep improves a little from better methylation usually, existing supplements pushing detox may be too much. SIBO does seem to improve with prolonged eggs per day.
I've had your issue from before the higher eggs as well. I think the detox is too strong for me. The 4 eggs a day increases it. What needs to be done is slow the detox down whilst the leakiness heals (now 8 months and still not there yet). I've said this to others. I reduced zinc, reduced zinc in beef, reduced protein (mine was high), reduced fat and increased carbohydrates. Another factor in sleep can be a need to increase B5 foods like chicken, mushrooms, avocados and eggs. B5 we might not absorb as well as some other vitamins.
Try to rest rather than become anxious about the issue. Being in the dark can help on it's own. I go to bed early. It's never made me that tired though. The detox with extra eggs or a supplement may increase daytime tiredness at first as mentioned before.
@christian yes, once you realise the truth with what's happening with prolonged use of the eggs, higher choline foods or a lecithin supplement then you can never go back 🙂 I'm screaming - the detox gets stronger ! Absorption improves, sleep improves a little from better methylation usually, existing supplements pushing detox may be too much. SIBO does seem to improve with prolonged eggs per day.
I've had your issue from before the higher eggs as well. I think the detox is too strong for me. The 4 eggs a day increases it. What needs to be done is slow the detox down whilst the leakiness heals (now 8 months and still not there yet). I've said this to others. I reduced zinc, reduced zinc in beef, reduced protein (mine was high), reduced fat and increased carbohydrates. Another factor in sleep can be a need to increase B5 foods like chicken, mushrooms, avocados and eggs. B5 we might not absorb as well as some other vitamins.
Try to rest rather than become anxious about the issue. Being in the dark can help on it's own. I go to bed early. It's never made me that tired though. The detox with extra eggs or a supplement may increase daytime tiredness at first as mentioned before.
Hermes and Deleted user have reacted to this post.
Quote from
Anna on December 12, 2022, 8:01 am
Sleep issues for me have always been a mag/k issue. It feels like a constant battle to get the right amount of each. Right now using lots of homemade magnesium lotion has been helping, at other times potassium gluconate helps.Â
I will also add that I am increasingly thinking that the issue at the forefront for me is copper toxicity, as all my detox symptoms seem to relate to copper dumping. This might help explain why larger amounts of mag, k and in particular zinc alleviate symptoms. No doubt I'm also detoxing vitamin a, but it's been going low copper that has helped the most with sleep, digestion, anxiety and headaches.Â
Sleep issues for me have always been a mag/k issue. It feels like a constant battle to get the right amount of each. Right now using lots of homemade magnesium lotion has been helping, at other times potassium gluconate helps.Â
I will also add that I am increasingly thinking that the issue at the forefront for me is copper toxicity, as all my detox symptoms seem to relate to copper dumping. This might help explain why larger amounts of mag, k and in particular zinc alleviate symptoms. No doubt I'm also detoxing vitamin a, but it's been going low copper that has helped the most with sleep, digestion, anxiety and headaches.Â
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Quote from
Andrew B on December 12, 2022, 8:35 am
@anna-2 I found eating 1-2 eggs a day helped magnesium absorption from foods. I rarely used any topical in the 3 years I've been doing this as rarely got any cramps usually helped by magnesium. Eating more meat saves the magnesium as well as it's usually used in insulin regulation with higher carbohydrates.
@anna-2 I found eating 1-2 eggs a day helped magnesium absorption from foods. I rarely used any topical in the 3 years I've been doing this as rarely got any cramps usually helped by magnesium. Eating more meat saves the magnesium as well as it's usually used in insulin regulation with higher carbohydrates.
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NavnHermesDeleted userAnna
Quote from
Jiřà on December 12, 2022, 9:06 am
@christian I don't know if it's also your case, but I just wrote this comment under video about insomnia during chronic/adrenal fatigue..
If you wake up in 2-3 am every night it's mainly because your liver glycogen was depleted. So blood sugar drops and the adrenals need to pump up some cortisol to rise that low blood sugar and that will wake you up.. So to prevent this eat more carbs in general if that doesn't help eat some snack before bed. Ideally some carbs and fats. It can be some rice cake with some jam and nut butter or whatever you like. This will also lower cortisol directly and will help you sleep. If you still wake up in 2-3 am eat some fast sugars like tbsp of honey or again what you like when you wake up. That will help you to fall a sleep again.. Do this until your adrenals and overall health gets better from changing your life style etc.. and eventually you should just eat dinner 2 hours before bed and have no issues with sleeping 8 hours.. Every time I start to wake up in 2-3 am I know I am under more stress and/or I am not eating enough calories/carbs..
And choline should help with increasing liver glycogen capacity. So it should help with what I was talking about directly..
@christian I don't know if it's also your case, but I just wrote this comment under video about insomnia during chronic/adrenal fatigue..
If you wake up in 2-3 am every night it's mainly because your liver glycogen was depleted. So blood sugar drops and the adrenals need to pump up some cortisol to rise that low blood sugar and that will wake you up.. So to prevent this eat more carbs in general if that doesn't help eat some snack before bed. Ideally some carbs and fats. It can be some rice cake with some jam and nut butter or whatever you like. This will also lower cortisol directly and will help you sleep. If you still wake up in 2-3 am eat some fast sugars like tbsp of honey or again what you like when you wake up. That will help you to fall a sleep again.. Do this until your adrenals and overall health gets better from changing your life style etc.. and eventually you should just eat dinner 2 hours before bed and have no issues with sleeping 8 hours.. Every time I start to wake up in 2-3 am I know I am under more stress and/or I am not eating enough calories/carbs..
And choline should help with increasing liver glycogen capacity. So it should help with what I was talking about directly..
Orion, lil chick and 6 other users have reacted to this post.
Orionlil chickAudreyNavnHermesDeleted userAndrew BAnna
Quote from
Celia on December 12, 2022, 10:42 am
@christian do you test your blood sugar or ketones? With the lecithin could you be upping or absorbing your fat better? When I'm transitioning between sugar burning and being in ketosis my sleep gets spotty.Â
@christian do you test your blood sugar or ketones? With the lecithin could you be upping or absorbing your fat better? When I'm transitioning between sugar burning and being in ketosis my sleep gets spotty.Â
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Quote from
Hermes on December 12, 2022, 1:25 pm
@andrew-b
Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe it is the detox which makes me feel agitated and wired in the morning, making it difficult to fall back asleep. What might be odd: when I wake up, I'd have up to four bowel movements in about a three-hour window. Is this toxic bile being expelled?
So you would not supplement with zinc anymore? I've been supplementing with it daily in the range of 30 to 50 mg. Eating less meat might not be so easy for me because I'd feel cold without the protein. But maybe I can try to ditch the meat at dinner and see what happens. I already eat pretty low fat. I don't think I can spare any further. My B5 intake is good since I supplement with 200 mg daily.
@andrew-b
Thanks for your thoughts. Maybe it is the detox which makes me feel agitated and wired in the morning, making it difficult to fall back asleep. What might be odd: when I wake up, I'd have up to four bowel movements in about a three-hour window. Is this toxic bile being expelled?
So you would not supplement with zinc anymore? I've been supplementing with it daily in the range of 30 to 50 mg. Eating less meat might not be so easy for me because I'd feel cold without the protein. But maybe I can try to ditch the meat at dinner and see what happens. I already eat pretty low fat. I don't think I can spare any further. My B5 intake is good since I supplement with 200 mg daily.
Andrew B has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Hermes on December 12, 2022, 1:35 pm
@jiri
Your thoughts remind me of the advice Ray Peat would give to clients asking similar questions about not being able to fall back asleep when they wake up in the middle of the night. Now, I already eat a lot of sugar as in simple glucose and honey, and usually I'll have a snack when I wake up early in the morning. It's not doing a thing. I've tried different supplements too which don't seem to work at all. As I mentioned in the previous answer to Andrew, I'll have several bowel movements after I wake up too early. It's as if my body is working through some stuff. But I just seem not to be able to relax or get tired, instead, I'm wired. Maybe some adrenaline issue? If you have any idea how to tackle this grouchy morning beast, I'm all ears.
Sometimes I've had success with saunas the night before. They would really exhaust me, and then I'd sleep through the night. I think sunlight throughout the day helps too to be really sleepy in the evening and have a somber night of sleep.
@jiri
Your thoughts remind me of the advice Ray Peat would give to clients asking similar questions about not being able to fall back asleep when they wake up in the middle of the night. Now, I already eat a lot of sugar as in simple glucose and honey, and usually I'll have a snack when I wake up early in the morning. It's not doing a thing. I've tried different supplements too which don't seem to work at all. As I mentioned in the previous answer to Andrew, I'll have several bowel movements after I wake up too early. It's as if my body is working through some stuff. But I just seem not to be able to relax or get tired, instead, I'm wired. Maybe some adrenaline issue? If you have any idea how to tackle this grouchy morning beast, I'm all ears.
Sometimes I've had success with saunas the night before. They would really exhaust me, and then I'd sleep through the night. I think sunlight throughout the day helps too to be really sleepy in the evening and have a somber night of sleep.
Andrew B has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Hermes on December 12, 2022, 1:46 pm
@celia
No, I don't measure those metrics. I'm on a high carbohydrate, low fat and moderate protein diet. Actually, I'm able to go without food for up to five hours without complications. I can also sleep straight for ten hours when it happens. I've not changed much in my diet over the last couple of weeks, and actually, my sleep got much better recently, especially since introducing a lecithin supplement. So this recent but not unknown erratic sleep schedule comes as a surprise. Well, the only thing that changed a week ago: I started a new job. That's the only thing I can think of. And that's where it gets kind of iffy to me: How do I tackle this distress I experience with proper mental hygiene? I can be so oblivious to the psychological realm, I deny it outright. Maybe @jessica2 has some ideas?
@celia
No, I don't measure those metrics. I'm on a high carbohydrate, low fat and moderate protein diet. Actually, I'm able to go without food for up to five hours without complications. I can also sleep straight for ten hours when it happens. I've not changed much in my diet over the last couple of weeks, and actually, my sleep got much better recently, especially since introducing a lecithin supplement. So this recent but not unknown erratic sleep schedule comes as a surprise. Well, the only thing that changed a week ago: I started a new job. That's the only thing I can think of. And that's where it gets kind of iffy to me: How do I tackle this distress I experience with proper mental hygiene? I can be so oblivious to the psychological realm, I deny it outright. Maybe @jessica2 has some ideas?
Andrew B has reacted to this post.
Quote from
Inger on December 13, 2022, 2:01 am
Maybe it is the stress from starting a new job? It is always higher stress several months into a new job because you need to learn so many new things.
Maybe it is the stress from starting a new job? It is always higher stress several months into a new job because you need to learn so many new things.
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