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Our Family - Behavioral Outburts, Acne, Urinary Problems, Hormones...Oh My!
Hi All,
I've been lurking here part time, as I race to also keep up with my four homeschooled kiddos and all the Stuff we're already dealing with. We started this Low A experiment almost seven weeks ago, because after a decade of GAPS, Perfect Health Diet, Resistant Starch Supplementation, Walsh Protocols, and every Low-Histamine/Low-Salicyclate/AIP/Milk Cure/Low Lectin Etc. Etc. Etc Dietary Experiment...I kinda thought we had nothing left to try! Silly me. 🙂 We certainly have enough symptoms to warrant more experimentation, so when I heard about this and did some digging, I thought: this might make some sense.
I was raised vegetarian (low zinc intake for 30 years!), and when I met my husband 22 years ago, he joined me in that "healthy" diet. Our first two kiddos (now 15 and 12) were also vegetarian until they were 6 and 3 - at which point the eldest was descending into autism, my husban's autoimmune diseases (many and varied, and beginning when he was three months old so can't blame vegetarianism entirely) were worsening, and I was definitely losing steam myself - ramped up hypoglycemia, hormonal issues, and PPD.
Since 2010, in an effort to stem the tide of All Our Issues, we've tried to eat "traditionally," whatever the heck that means when your intuition is BROKEN and it's literally impossible to know what is best for ones own body, let alone five other people's bodies! Yes, that's right - thinking I had once again found a Perfect diet, we had two more kids over the past seven years. 🙂 Hah! Lots more issues there, so certainly WAPF and GAPS was no panacea...
Anyway: I'll be specific about my issues because I have little shame, but I'll lump all my kids' together so as not to single any of them out in case they someday read this forum and feel embarassed. 🙂 Kids issues include bedwetting, tongue/lip-ties all plus feeding issues as babies, digestive issues, eating disorder, severe anxiety, gum sensitivity/thinning/recession, ADHD, short stature, behavioral meltdowns/tantrums, mold sensitivity/extremely severe headaches...etc.
My husband has asthma, has never been able to gain weight, has eosinophilic esophagitis (one of the only things he noticed when we started on GAPS was that this improved greatly), skin issues that ebb and flow, pretty severe fatigue, cloudy/fuzzy head/difficulty focusing/ADD, and did I mention that he is tired a lot? He is also a non-responder. Almost everything we have ever tried has had no effect on him. (Except...when he did a whole-raw-milk "cure" for 8 weeks, he gained 15 pounds! Which he lost again as soon as he started eating food again.)
I have had issues with my hormones from my very first period, many many years ago. I used to be incapacitated for about three days per month with pain/cramps/anxiety/etc., and over time that occurred (minus the cramping) each time I ovulated as well, so twice a month for 6 days total, and then mood swings in between. I had severe PPD after the first two babies, and then during-pregnancy depression with #3 that requred us to move in with my parents for three months. (I was never going to have another baby...until #4 happened, and that's when I discovered Walsh's zinc/B6 protocol, which saved my life. Having a baby without PPD is so amazing! I have been taking massive amounts of zinc and B6 plus cofactors for the past 5 years, and although it didn't solve everything, it made my life wonderful again.) I've struggled with OCD and anxiety that are greatly improved on the Walsh protocol, but not totally gone, and are often worst before my period. Also, I have to pee way more often than I should - every night I get up several times, and it's not due to sphincter issues and it didn't used to happen.
In terms of Vitamin A consumption...my husband and myself probably ate a lot for fortified foods during our childhoods and young adult years, but no accutane or anything. After starting GAPS, we were fairly moderate A...until about nine months in, when we started CLO and liver and egg yolks to the max, at which point we were quite high (two of my children have never been able to tolerate CLO, and i always thought it was the EFAs - now I wonder if it was the A)
This past February, I went to a Mensah clinc for myself, my older son, and my older daughter. My thinking was, since our healthshare had promised to pay for this (except now they aren't! 🙁 long 'nother story...), it would be a good idea to check with an actual trained doctor about the large amounts of supplements I'd been taking and giving to my kids. Most of their recommendations fit with what I was already doing, but they added a few other things, including Vitamin D, Vitamin E, Vitamin A for my son and myself, and calcium all around.
We took these additional supplements for three months, and this is what happened in me: extreme shortening of my period (down to 1.5 days of actual bleeding, and 26 day cycle), increasing circles under my eyes, lowered libido/dryness, fatigue, and then, once I tried calcium (this I'd had a bad reaction to before, so I added it after all the other new supps), a terrible bout of kidney pain that woke me up at 2am and nearly sent me to the emergency room except I was scared of what they might do to me there! (I'm not the most lucid at 2am...)
The kidney pain was so unusual (and definitely not a UTI) that I began researching calcium...which lead me to look into Vitamin D....which made me think also about Vitamin K...and it wasn't until I read some of these forums that I discovered the possibility that maybe it was the Vitamin A that I'd started taking that could be a contributing factor. The kidney pain happened again with some burning urination a couple more times, and I thought I was getting kidney stones (maybe I still am??)
I stopped the Vitamin A in June, and two days later I had a 3-day long spell of "dry eye" (which I'd NEVER had before, except my mom has struggled with it for years), so bad I thought I had pinkeye. This made me think that maybe there WAS something to this concept of a Vitamin A "detox." We started the Low A diet two weeks later, and...my libido came back!! Definitely a happy effect. 🙂
Unfortunately, pretty much all the other effects have been unhappy: I broke out in severe-for-me acne that is worse than anything I've had in my life, and that was four weeks ago - it happened very suddenly one afternoon, after a bizarre moments of whole-body itching; next time I looked in the mirror I had enormous zits popping out all over. My urinary frequency is possibly increased, although it's hard to tell. Definitely not improved! My children's gum issues/recession, bedwetting, and behavioral meltdowns/anxiety are all worse, to the point where my husband is kinda ready to throw in the towel, or at least is wondering how long we should try this if all of us are actually feeling WORSE as a result! I can't exactly reassure him, since we've been on so many of these quests before and they were never straightforward and it's often so hard to know when to stop. (GAPS was overall a very important healing step for our son...but we did it for perhaps a year longer than we should have.) I've said I want to try the Low A thing for 6 months, but he thinks maybe that's too long if our child is rigid and anxious and maybe our son needs more A in order to avoid gum surgery?! 🙂 🙁
Anyway...I know there are tons of stories from all of you, which I am slowly reading, but if anyone can point me toward specific ones from which I might glean useful information, I would be very thankful! I am currently traveling with my four kiddos and we have spent the past 1.5 weeks eating a Low A diet while camping in the Sierras...so I will say that eventually I will have useful ideas and strategies to share with you, IF we make it through the summer! 🙂 And assuming we are on the right course for our family's health...
Thanks so much for reading,
Sarabeth
I guess I forgot to mention what we're eating. 🙂 As per Garrett Smith, our particular diet includes the following (we've been gluten-free for ten years (!!), but I sure am thinking about trialing homemade wheat sourdough bread someday soon...)
Beef, chicken, turkey, lamb
White rice, Brown rice (only in homemade sourdough), tapioca, arrowroot, white peeled potatoes (this is only as of three days ago - we hadn't eaten any nightshades for the last two years)
Egg whites
Cauliflower, celery, cucumber (peeled), white onion, white garlic, green cabbage, mushrooms of all kinds, iceberg lettuce, green/globe/French artichoke
Parsnips, turnips, radishes, horseradish, rutabagas
Dates, apples, pears, grapes, bananas, lemons, limes, black fig, cherries, elderberry, raspberry, blackberry, black current, prickly pear fruit, blueberry, strawberry, pomegranates, white peaches, white nectarines.
Brazil nuts, pecans, walnuts, macadamias, pine nuts, chestnuts
lighter honey
Butter and ghee in small amounts
Refined coconut and avocado oils, and white tallow when we can get it
Peppercorns, rosemary, mustard, turmeric, dill, peppermint, celery seed, Ceylon cinnamon, coriander seed, cumin, ginger, vanilla, miso, tamari, capers
--What I keep wondering: where are we getting calcium?? I have made broths etc. from bones for the past ten years, but never felt like this was a good source of calcium, and now we aren't even eating leafy greens. What will happen to our bones and teeth?!
Thanks again for reading,
Sarabeth
Hi Sarabeth
It sure is a big journey and I feel it is an important one to be patient with. A quick reply re the calcium. From what I understand the high VA in our bodies means it draws the calcium out of bones and teeth. I suspect this accentuated my teeth issues years ago. I am curious what others say re calcium. I suspect we need less of many nutrients with low VA.
Another realisation was the link to pelvic floor issues, incontinence and VA. https://nutritionrestored.com/blog-forum/topic/incontinence-and-pelvic-muscle-dysfunction
My children's gum issues/recession, bedwetting, and behavioral meltdowns/anxiety are all worse, to the point where my husband is kinda ready to throw in the towel, or at least is wondering how long we should try this if all of us are actually feeling WORSE as a result!
It is important to realise that there are cycles with the low VA and this can intensify symptoms and retrace old ones too. Also you may need some extra support re nutrients eg VIt C. Mag etc. This could make the difference re some of the intense symptoms. IN our family we have passed most of the meltdowns and bedwetting before going onto low VA. Try searching for specific symptoms here and Dr G forum and it may help you with the longer term.
keep the focus
My bones are much stronger since doing low VA and I'm probably getting less than half of the RDA for calcium, so I'm not sure its that important.
To add another culprit to your list, might wanna check out oxalate toxicity since there are quite a few foods in your list that are very high in oxalates like brazil nuts and dates/figs. There is a big overlap between VA and oxalates, many of the "healthy" dietary patterns like WAPF and vegetarianism that contain excessive amounts of VA will also be rich in oxalates, they also bioaccumulate and can cause similar symptoms as VA. Incidentally the basic diet of white rice, beef and small amounts of beans that Grant was most successful with is also low in oxalates.
As an experimenter of this diet with a toddler that has an egg allergy and had eczema, gut and sleep issues, I want to share a bit of my journey.
I stumbled upon this in late October last year. I thought I'd give it a shot since I was doing worse on a "healthy" diet with more fruits and vegetables. My toddler had previously been fed mainly fruits as snacks with some meat and dairy. I was restricting processed food and sugar. I started by cutting out major sources like most colorful fruits and vegetables and foods fortified with A. The eczema cleared up in the first month and did not come back, my toddler continued to scratch himself though so it have continued to itch without turning into eczema. Sleep was still an issue until I cut out lactose entirely, this intolerance his probably caused by a sensitive gut from all the carotenoids I gave him in the past. Behavior also improved a bit after I put him on the diet, it improved further when I removed lactose. I was worried he had autistic traits.
Then, last month, we were on vacation for a full 2-week period and he improved much much more during that time. It's like he finally got out of his little cocoon. He's now a good tempered 2 years old with good social skills and he sleeps well and eats well.
I must also mentioned that he suffered from chronic infections (plugged nose and eye mucus) all winter until we got on our vacation. The eye infections seemed to always start with dry eyes and giving him drops did help, so I'm thinking there's a link.
The 2-week break from daycare allowed him to heal. Looking back I think he was not eating enough at the daycare and that triggered stress hormones which affected his behavior and sleep. Since this little break, we have changed daycare and he's so much happier, I won't ever know if the other daycare was part of the problem, but the new one seems much better.
I am now exploring oxalates which might have been the problem all along since there's a big overlap between high carotenoids and oxalates with a few exceptions. I baked some chocolate muffins last week and I noticed that the symptoms were starting to come back. Curiously, this week, we're both having some kind of throat issue as our oxalate intake as gone down again. The other two pieces of the puzzle that seem to help me and my toddler the most are increased meat/iron intake and higher calories. I'm thinking the healing process increases the demand for proteins, iron and calories in general. To get those extra calories, I have laxed quite a bit on processed foods and allow a lot more than I previously did.
If you want, I can share my partner's and my story.
Whether its Vitamin A, oxalates, histamines, salicylates, lectins, phytates, etc, it seems there are countless potential issues when people go overboard with nutrient dense "super foods". I'm starting to think that the nutritionism and focus on nutrient-dense whole foods in both mainstream and alternative health has been a giant misstep, and the more important focus when constructing a healthy diet is to minimise the toxins rather than maximise the nutrients, while still meeting your macronutrient needs. Hence why refined grains and meats is the dietary foundation of all major cultures. Always found it curious that the most popular vegetables and fruits worldwide like onions, tomatoes, cucumber, lettuce, squash, eggplant, apples and bananas are some of the least nutrient dense, but its likely because they are the lowest in overall toxic substances as well.
Hi Mokus, thanks so much - I will read the links you sent!
Collden, that's very interesting - I've always been annoyed by the low-histamine followers in the past, but I'm definitely thinking that you're right, that there's a connection between A and histamine and it could be worth trying for sure. I had sorta forgotten about it, even as I wash loads and loads of laundry from the unquenchable urine tide. 🙁 Which of the foods I listed is high in histamine apart from the brazil nuts and dates, may I ask? (When I get back from this camping trip I'll check out a low histamine food list more thoroughly!).
I have certainly went whole-hog into "increasing nutrient density", over the past ten years! And it hasn't been as effective as I'd hoped. 🙁
Somuch4food, thank you - I would love to hear more of your story!
Off to make breakfast and go to the laundromat,
Sarabeth
I should clarify that I wasn't just blindly "annoyed" at the low-histamine idea - it was just one of those things that caused non-responsiveness in my husband and us over a three-month period, and so I decided I was done with "special diets"...haha! as if that was even possible! 🙂 But I see now more than ever how important it is to dial in the right combination of factors in order to respond to any particular intervention.... If the A is an issue for us, than certainly I have always (a la Wahls and others) been insuring a constant supply of very high-A foods along with any other intervention I tried, over the past many years.
Regards,
Sarabeth
Note I'm talking about oxalates, about histamines I don't know. Brazils and dates are extremely high but most nuts, seeds, beans and whole grains are quite high, brown rice and potatoes too if eaten as staples, there are good online databases like https://regepi.bwh.harvard.edu/health/Oxalate/files/Oxalate%20Content%20of%20Foods.xls
A high intake would be something like 200mg or more per day.
I will write another chapter of my little story 😀
My partner is a guinea pig in this little adventure. He's not into diet intervention to improve health, but he gets influenced by my choices since I cook during the week and do most of the shopping while also telling him to restrict certain things for the family when he cooks. He also is mainly clueless about all this since he's not interested, so I don't share much of the information I find with him.
His main issues are chronic sinusitis, frequent infections and loss of sense of smell. He also has some vitiligo. As stated earlier, I started this diet last fall by mainly cutting high carotenoids foods. We were already egg free and I kept dairy around and just reduced the amount consumed. Soon after that, he started smelling again more often. The winter was pretty dreadful for him he had many bouts of acute sinusitis which made him miss work multiple times. I'm guessing the change in diet triggered all this, not that he would believe me if I told him. After a round of antibiotics following a really bad strep throat, his nose cleared up and he recovered his smell. He also hadn't had an infection since.
Fast forward to this week, he's having trouble again with a sinusitis and I'm thinking it's the oxalates this time since he's been eating chocolate muffins almost everyday since we bought them at Costco. He's the only one eating them since they contain eggs.