Quote from Sarabeth on January 30, 2020, 2:14 pm

I forgot to add: I have updated (or rather, downgraded!!) our formerly immense supplement cabinet, so that we are each taking (unbelievably!!) only four things: low doses of b1, b2, b5, and biotin. So far so good, although I think we might take occasional doses of selenium and I still haven't figured out what to do about calcium. Even this combination was aggravating one of my children's already-not-good Frequent Urination Issue, so this child is ONLY getting B1. I have yet to figure out the Urination issues, but remedying years' worth of B deficiencies might actually help, in time, I think...  (Another of my children's urination issues are improving, slowly, but definitely surely, over this past fall.)

Quote from Sarabeth on April 17, 2020, 6:56 pm

Quick updates on food re-introductions:

Soaked oats: great for all.

Peeled white potatoes: seem fine, _maybe_ slight increase in bedwetting for some but also maybe not.

Soaked brown rice: nobody likes it, but they LOVE brown rice noodles, which I'm making occasionally.

Resistant starches (cassava flour, shirataki noodles, cooked/cooled rice/beans): seem fine, and cassava makes some very great waffles...

Beans: seem fine if SUPER well-cooked (pressure cooked), but if they're even slightly firmer than Very Soft...stomach issues for some.

Homemade long-fermented sourdough wheat bread: no neurological issues that I noticed, this time...but DEFINITELY digestive ones - pretty much every one of us got terrible gas, that we don't usually have, and which was stinky and painful. Not at all sure how to interpret a symptom that none of us usually have: does it mean we shouldn't eat it? Do we just need to Power Through and build up some microbes that haven't been with us for the last gluten-free decade?? Taking a break for the moment, at least!

Vitamin D supplementation: possibly an increase in urinary/bedwetting issues for some of us - not sure what the mechanism would be, though.

Small amounts of lowfat yogurt: seems fine.

An egg every day or so, per person: fine for all except one, who gets a patch of eczema on elbow, very itchy. This eczema is possibly also related to the yogurt for this person, but the egg correlates more strongly. Too much vitamin A at once?? Not sure whether to stop eggs and dairy entirely for this one family member, or if the extra nutrition is worth the extra A (this person is a small child; the eczema is not accompanied by behavioral issues which were the biggest issues prior to A detox).

Quote from Sarabeth on March 14, 2021, 6:21 pm

Hi All,

I have been so woefully out of touch, but that's cuz... All The Things. I can't find the appropriate posts to reply to, so I thought I would mention a few of our current experiments and my thoughts before another several months of silence goes by...

B12: I think this is interesting, because among my many abnormal bloodwork results that accrued during my ~10 years doing WAPF/GAPS, was EXTREMELY low B12. I went to see Kelly Brogan, who was at that time practicing in NYC, and she said my level (while I was pregnant with my third) was the lowest she'd seen - despite all the crazy amounts of organ meats and meat and dairy and eggs I was eating...

It is so hard to figure out what is a baseline Issue, and I've been having this discussion recently about Vitamin A and oxalates. Is vitamin A more of a baseline problem than oxalates?? I say yes, because it appears that A can wreck the gut which then leads to inability to digest everything else; rather than gluten or oxalates or whatever, which MIGHT in susceptible people ruin the gut on their own...but in more cases seem to be perfectly fine for a person to digest IF their gut hasn't been wrecked already!

Our diet these days: lots of beans, lots of rice, lots of meat, an egg or two per week in gluten-free sourdough, some iceberg lettuce, lots of mushrooms, minimal amounts of "green" spices like oregano. Last week, for the first time in 12 months (last experiment did NOT go well), I made sourdough organic wheat bread. Oh my god it tasted so good!!! 🙂 I had nausea and stomach pain for two days, but I am exceedingly good at making psychosomatic health issues occur, so i thought: I'll push through. Gas was a huge issue last year, but this year seemed fine. But Baby's poop turned neon green, and four days ago in the middle of the night, green poop. Plus he couldn't get through a nursing session without having to poop. Then three days ago...this baby, who has been a champion sleeper, had the worst day of sleep in his life. He's also been really agitated, and he's generally super calm. Then yesterday, same thing. Today, horrible. It cannot be coincidence...so gluten is off the table for me, at least for another year. 🙁

Two other family members developed severe diarrhea and Pains yesterday, so they will join me in returning to being gluten-free. Three others say they feel great and are loving the wheat bread, so I will for now keep serving it to them. I can get locally milled whole spelt flour and I have to assume there are more B vitamins in sourdough bread made from this than in our pots of white rice...

Since well before the wheat experiment, there are a few things that are not improving nearly enough for my taste: one child's nails have returned to being very thin, ridged, and breakable. Another child gets reddened skin issues. I have an infection in my nose that has been with me for 18 months, and I am SO ready for it to be gone! I thought leaving the desert would help, but it hasn't. This week after eating the wheat bread, the scabs are super huge and painful. I have no idea why wheat would make this happen, but I don't think it is coincidence. (Two kids had super massive nosebleeds after five days of wheat bread, so Noses seem to be a thing around here.)

A low-A diet is definitely making us more resilient, especially the younger ones...but we are not there yet! Maybe never will be...but just the fact that we can eat oats and beans is a wonderful thing, after so many years of restricting...hopefully someday we can eat chile peppers again, but I won't hold my breath. 🙂

xoxo

s

Quote from Jenny on March 15, 2021, 3:18 am

@sarabeth-matilsky Hi great to hear your update. That’s very interesting about the B12. It does sound like you are super sensitive to gluten still sadly.

I agree that vA is more baseline than oxalates. I’ve been following the TLO. oxalate group for a while now & think it’s a serious issue but for me the vA toxicity problem came first. VA toxicity messes with so many systems that can then impact oxalates, for example, depletion of B1 can cause increased production of endogenous oxalates. VA toxicity can cause lack of sulphation/ sulphate - oxalates use same transporters as sulphate - according to Susan Owens. Vitamin A toxicity at the base of dysfunction makes most sense to me. This creates knock-on problems. Addressing the knock-on problems can help too but unless you get to the route cause you’ll still get problems. I see it as continually bailing out the boat rather than fixing the hole. (Although if the hole takes a long while to fix the bailing is necessary to stop the boat sinking!!) 

I also have a real problem with weak ridged nails. I’m sure it’s a deficiency but I don’t know of what. I’m testing minerals regularly (& supplementing appropriately) so I don’t think it’s a mineral. More likely a vitamin. Or it could be a toxicity. I’ve had this problem most of the detox & I really want to solve it! Also at one point I had terrible sores in my nose. It lasted for a few months. I seem to think that maybe some B vitamins improved it but I don’t think I was sure. It went away & has never returned. I do regularly supplement with a low B vitamin mix nowadays. 

Quote from Rachel on March 15, 2021, 3:48 am

Great to hear an update.  Thanks for posting.  I too have a truely messed up gut and can sympathise.  It makes things so difficult.  I read other people's accounts and am envious at the foods they are able to eat and the supplements they are able to take to address deficiencies.  Not being able to do that does slow the process down.  Like you I am seeing progress but it is painfully slow and until my gut is improved I am unable to change things. 
I also have periodic long lasting sores in my nose.  I thought I had it sussed last year when adding biotin resolved things but just before Xmas I got another one that is proving stubborn.  Sigh!
Still I am encouraged that this (low VA) is the first intervention I have made that is slowly improving things rather than making things worse so that is positive. 

@jaj I am thinking of adding a low dose of B vits.  Do you mind sharing which one you are taking?  I think we are both in the UK so that would be useful. 

Quote from Jenny on March 15, 2021, 6:26 am

Hi @rachel  interesting about the biotin as that’s one of the nutrients I’ve had my eye on! I’ve been taking this low B supplement. https://naturaldispensary.co.uk/products/Vegan_B_Complex_60_s-19142-734.html

I have no idea if it’s any good. I personally add in extra active B6 (for pyroluria) and sometimes some other extra Bs such as active B2, extra B1 & B12. I blow hot & cold on supplements! 

Quote from Sarabeth on November 10, 2021, 8:10 pm

“Two by once” was one of my toddlers’ favorite expressions when skipping stairs on a staircase…

 

Lately, I have been trying to figure out why five of the seven of us seemed to have especially had herpes reactivation before and during our cases of Covid...and why, now that Covid symptoms are gone, herpes continues to linger. 😞

 

We have always had susceptibility to herpes. If the kids eat nuts, lip rashes almost inevitably appear in at least somebody, if not everybody. Our gums are in bad shape, among many other annoying issues. Although, after reading @Grant 's recent post on scurvy, I'm thinking that it all fits a pattern! (But herpes is definitely involved beyond the vitamin A. I get painful herpes mouth ulcers, so at the very least, there must be viral reactivation _along with_ vitamin A dumping/detox/whatever the heck is happening.

 

Weirdly, the baby's gut was most affected by Covid and/or herpes. He has a small rash around his lips, a small lesion on his left hip, and he's had diarrhea ever since being sick (Covid was a low 24-hour fever for him, barely noticeable). Also, he has been much pickier in his eating, selecting more for carbs than protein (before he was a really balanced meat and potatoes kind of guy). He's also eating less, although still getting enough. I just notice that his gut, plus his nap schedule, has been disrupted.

 

I appreciate the various folks who share so many good stories and links - I have such a limited time to peruse and read, so i'm sorry if I don't have exact attributions, and am just pasting the interesting studies and theories in here! I do think the susceptibility to herpes reactivation/poor gum health comes from vitamin A toxicity, and this in turn is why my family’s gum health is generally and overall terrible. (I find this particular research study illustrative because the first bloodwork I had after beginning our “vitamin A detox” showed that my extremely elevated triglycerides and good AND bad cholesterol, had - after a decade during which NOTHING brought those numbers down, dietarily speaking - finally normalized.)

 

I also find it interesting/strange that when I had Covid, my usual high doses of lysine did nothing to relieve my concurrent herpes issues (arginine is often a trigger for herpes). Recently researchers found arginine effective for some cases of Covid:

Use of arginine to reduce the severity of retinoid-induced hypertriglyceridemia:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10890031/

 

This next article is fascinating because of several case studies showing that Covid appears to allow concurrent infection by entirely different viruses…specifically herpes…each virus seeming to infect separate and particular parts of the body:

 

https://www.cureus.com/articles/45965-sars-cov-2-infection-covid-19-and-herpes-simplex-virus-1-conjunctivitis-concurrent-viral-infections-or-a-cause-effect-result

 

This was interesting in general, and I'm thinking these theories are correct: the liver and its vitamin A storage are integral to the virus' pathology (but perhaps the liver and vitamin A are integral to ALL infections' pathology??):

 

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/vim.2020.0330

 

One interesting thing: during Covid, certain symptoms were BETTER: facial skin was clearer, and my varicose veins were much less painful.

 

I can't remember why, maybe somebody posted about this, but I got the idea that my periodic thunderclap-type headaches needed more electrolytes/minerals. I have tried various drops and making home made electrolyte drink, and it seemed to help a bit, and for one of my kiddos as well. But I can't remember why this would be...? My case of Covid was arguably the worst in the family (I'd probably have to draw straws with my husband to determine whose was worst...) because it involved a torturous 8-day headache.

 

This round of Covid, by the way, was nearly identical to the "flu" that we had in February/March 2020, which caused me to post panicked notes on this forum because I was just barely pregnant... I think we had Covid then, and again now, and that perhaps Covid will be a semi-yearly event in some of our lives? 🙁 Bleah.

 

Thanks for listening, and sorry for my looooooong silences between posts!

xoxo

 

Use of arginine to reduce the severity of retinoid-induced hypertriglyceridemia:

Quote from Sarabeth on August 16, 2022, 6:22 pm

I treated myself to an early birthday present this year: some labwork! Almost miraculously, it was actually easy to get, fairly cheap with ultalabs and a coupon, and the results are back in three days!

Background: I had most of these labs done 8, 7, 6, 5, and 3 years ago, before and then during my Walsh Protocol which included tons of B6 and zinc plus cofactors (definitely saved my mental health when I was in a very bad place)...and then, 3.5 years ago, some supplemental Vitamin A plus calcium that led to horrendous kidney pain and me discovering this forum and community...

I haven't taken my Walsh supplements in about two years now.

Cholesterol and triglycerides went from ten years of being 250 or higher (and sky high triglycerides) prior to vitamin A detox...to normal.

Vitamin D is not back yet, but mine was very low before low vitamin A (something like 19 even after years of supplementing and living in the desert), and I'm hoping to see it higher now.

My zinc is now normal (before I needed to take tons every day to keep it not even as high as it is now. I haven't taken zinc supps regularly in nearly two years).

My copper is normal-ish! 🙂 And most importantly, I do not have the horrible high-copper symptoms I had before (anxiety, panic, severe PPD, during pregnancy depression, during All Life depression)...

Also, my periods are now normal. Sorry if TMI, but my whole life I thought that periods were just....heavy and clumpy. And that one could feel the gushes coming out because...well, that's always what mine were like! Accompanied by terrible horrible awful unbearable cramps, and horrible mood swings... Anyway, I finally have my period back after baby #5 and they are normal. No clots in the blood, just bright, medium flow, for two and a half or three days...and I can't feel anything. Not a twinge, not a gush, not a cramp. It's kind of amazing. Not even much in the way of any PMS... Just in time for menopause!

Interestingly, my vitamin B12 is still not in the range I would like. Before, at the worst of my mental health crises, it was 223. Kelly Brogan told me that it was about the lowest she'd ever seen and that that alone could be responsible for my mental breakdown. I supplemented for years and didn't have much of a change in labs. Now it is still shy of 400 (no supps in years)...but this is the supplement I am going to try now, in addition to the experimental high thiamine dose I am doing, for my gums. @wavygravygadzooks, I shall report back! 🙂

I am quite heartened to hear about @grant's improved varicose veins in his eight-year update! Here's hoping that mine go away sometime in the next five years, instead of getting worse. 🙂

Thanks to all of you participating in this most interesting science project...and your moral support along the way! It's working!! 🙂

Quote from Sarabeth on August 22, 2022, 8:34 pm

Just got vitamin D results back - almost 31 (with no supplementation), up from a low of 21 nearly 7 years ago (even with supplementation).

I haven't supplemented D in almost two years now, except for during a brief fit of covid hysteria last year when I first got covid and then took Masterjohn's (I now think poor) advice to bolus-dose for the first two days of the sickness. I actually think it made me particularly worse, due to dumping large amounts of A into circulation. Or maybe I just got a bad case, I don't know. In any case, after I recovered my senses, I wished I hadn't taken 100,000 iu twice in that week.

It looks like my D status is recovering overall, but like B12, is still lower than I'd wish. I don't plan to supplement, just interested. I never use sunscreen, but usually wear a wide brimmed hat.