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Oxalate content - grains, legumes, nuts and seeds

#21 · December 20, 2019, 11:38 am

Thanks for the info. I will drop the almonds in that case. Maybe can replace them with macadamias, pecans and sunflower butter based on these oxalate charts.

#22 · December 23, 2019, 6:32 pm

Im a little skeptical about the whole dietary oxalate building up in our body idea. Beans and whole grains are full of it and they are our source of b1 molybdenum etc? Years ago I was eating a load of sweet potato and actually started getting kidney pain, I immediately cut down on them and it went away. So my body was eliminating oxalate in the urine. A lot of wild foods/paleo foods are high in oxalate. Hunter gatherers ate a lot of nuts.

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#23 · December 24, 2019, 12:30 am

Quote from bludicka on December 24, 2019, 12:30 am

Quote from tim on December 23, 2019, 6:32 pm

Im a little skeptical about the whole dietary oxalate building up in our body idea. Beans and whole grains are full of it and they are our source of b1 molybdenum etc? Years ago I was eating a load of sweet potato and actually started getting kidney pain, I immediately cut down on them and it went away. So my body was eliminating oxalate in the urine. A lot of wild foods/paleo foods are high in oxalate. Hunter gatherers ate a lot of nuts.

But you were not seriously ill... Healthy people can eliminate excess oxalate relatively quickly. Why the worst oxalate problems are among mercury toxic people and autistic children? Because their detoxification mechanisms are very weak and the body does not manage to eliminate it continuously. Sally Norton was very ill because of oxalates stored in her body: https://sallyknorton.com/problems_from_my_wholesome_diet/ Some people have chronic deficiency in B1, B6 (too much of B6 is toxic but it is also a very necessary vitamin) and this can seriously disrupt oxalate metabolism in body: https://www.hormonesmatter.com/marginally-insufficient-thiamine-intake-oxalates/

Oxalates alters biotin metabolism and amino acid lysine is also needed.

People can have oxalate dumping symptoms for one-three years. One interesting story from low oxalate group:

"I'm 19 months into LOD, 13 months below 60mg of oxalates, during which I've also added many minerals and vitamins into my diet. Late summer this year my OAT showed that I'm an endogenous producer as well due to B6 and B1 deficiencies, so I've added them to the max, which naturally caused quite a bit of dumping. I also lowered closer to 40mg of oxalates at the end of the summer.

A month ago I started to modify my diet again to carnivore and the last two weeks I've been eating solely animal products. Here's what's breaking the camel's back:

I AM DUMPING LIKE MAD, AGAIN!

Now obviously I knew to expect some dumping, but the state I'm in is absolutely unbelievable! Horrible insomnia and nightmares, neck and chest pain, pounding heart, clicking joints, dizziness, weakness, bloating, rumbling, sandy stools, stabbing eye pain, chills and the list goes on.

You would think with 19 months of nonstop dumping I would by now start to run out of oxalates, but no, we found some more, yay! 😃 I know this is not "keto flu", as I was already fat adapted.

It also makes me wonder if some of us simply do not tolerate any oxalates at all, whether due to ancestral heritage or environmental causes. I know I have no Oxalobacter Formigenes in my gut and have no reason to believe I ever had any to begin with, as I'm Finnish for endless generations. Traditionally high oxalate foods were only available a couple of months during the summer as a treat with specific precautions taken and absolutely no vegetables grow in Finland for many months during the winter. Even bears give up and rather hibernate. Also fruit was unknown to my grandparents' generation. I don't see how the oxalate degrading bacteria would've survived in the guts of Finns even prior to antibiotics with nothing to feed on for months on end. UNLESS the elk, beaver and seal they fed on had been on a spinach smoothie cleanse prior to being killed.

So yeah, once again I'm just blown away how toxic oxalates are and the kind of damage they are capable of causing. And how I would have zero hope of surviving had I not found this group. Thank you to admins and moderators for all the hard work you do, you are literally saving our lives!"

"Mornings have been the worst for me during dumping, evenings are usually much better.
I ate about 1000-2000mg of oxalates for about 6 years, followed by 3000-4000mg for 6 months. I'm still dumping oxalates daily after almost three years of LOD, of which 13 months on carnivore. Luckily my dumping is no longer debilitating, but it is ranging between bearable and horrible."

https://sallyknorton.com/oxalate-science/oxalate-basics/Why does it affect some people and not others?

Quote from tim on December 23, 2019, 6:32 pm

Im a little skeptical about the whole dietary oxalate building up in our body idea. Beans and whole grains are full of it and they are our source of b1 molybdenum etc? Years ago I was eating a load of sweet potato and actually started getting kidney pain, I immediately cut down on them and it went away. So my body was eliminating oxalate in the urine. A lot of wild foods/paleo foods are high in oxalate. Hunter gatherers ate a lot of nuts.

But you were not seriously ill... Healthy people can eliminate excess oxalate relatively quickly. Why the worst oxalate problems are among mercury toxic people and autistic children? Because their detoxification mechanisms are very weak and the body does not manage to eliminate it continuously. Sally Norton was very ill because of oxalates stored in her body: https://sallyknorton.com/problems_from_my_wholesome_diet/ Some people have chronic deficiency in B1, B6 (too much of B6 is toxic but it is also a very necessary vitamin) and this can seriously disrupt oxalate metabolism in body: https://www.hormonesmatter.com/marginally-insufficient-thiamine-intake-oxalates/

Oxalates alters biotin metabolism and amino acid lysine is also needed.

People can have oxalate dumping symptoms for one-three years. One interesting story from low oxalate group:

"I'm 19 months into LOD, 13 months below 60mg of oxalates, during which I've also added many minerals and vitamins into my diet. Late summer this year my OAT showed that I'm an endogenous producer as well due to B6 and B1 deficiencies, so I've added them to the max, which naturally caused quite a bit of dumping. I also lowered closer to 40mg of oxalates at the end of the summer.

A month ago I started to modify my diet again to carnivore and the last two weeks I've been eating solely animal products. Here's what's breaking the camel's back:

I AM DUMPING LIKE MAD, AGAIN!

Now obviously I knew to expect some dumping, but the state I'm in is absolutely unbelievable! Horrible insomnia and nightmares, neck and chest pain, pounding heart, clicking joints, dizziness, weakness, bloating, rumbling, sandy stools, stabbing eye pain, chills and the list goes on.

You would think with 19 months of nonstop dumping I would by now start to run out of oxalates, but no, we found some more, yay! 😃 I know this is not "keto flu", as I was already fat adapted.

It also makes me wonder if some of us simply do not tolerate any oxalates at all, whether due to ancestral heritage or environmental causes. I know I have no Oxalobacter Formigenes in my gut and have no reason to believe I ever had any to begin with, as I'm Finnish for endless generations. Traditionally high oxalate foods were only available a couple of months during the summer as a treat with specific precautions taken and absolutely no vegetables grow in Finland for many months during the winter. Even bears give up and rather hibernate. Also fruit was unknown to my grandparents' generation. I don't see how the oxalate degrading bacteria would've survived in the guts of Finns even prior to antibiotics with nothing to feed on for months on end. UNLESS the elk, beaver and seal they fed on had been on a spinach smoothie cleanse prior to being killed.

So yeah, once again I'm just blown away how toxic oxalates are and the kind of damage they are capable of causing. And how I would have zero hope of surviving had I not found this group. Thank you to admins and moderators for all the hard work you do, you are literally saving our lives!"

"Mornings have been the worst for me during dumping, evenings are usually much better.
I ate about 1000-2000mg of oxalates for about 6 years, followed by 3000-4000mg for 6 months. I'm still dumping oxalates daily after almost three years of LOD, of which 13 months on carnivore. Luckily my dumping is no longer debilitating, but it is ranging between bearable and horrible."

https://sallyknorton.com/oxalate-science/oxalate-basics/Why does it affect some people and not others?

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#24 · December 24, 2019, 3:11 am

@bludicka

How does that person know their symptoms are from oxalates though?

Can you please tell me if this diet is low in oxalate? Should I remove the macadamia nuts? Is the white part of leeks high in oxalate? What about tea and beer?

Breakfast:

Sausage rolls and herbal tea with honey

Lunch:

Fish with potato, leek and cabbage and herbs and spices
Blueberry muffin, low fat yoghurt, iced tea

Dinner:

Chicken tenders, beer
Baked beans
Macadamia nut bar

Is nutritional yeast high in oxalate?

#25 · December 24, 2019, 4:52 am

Maybe fasting plays a role to eliminate toxins like oxalates?

#26 · December 24, 2019, 8:29 am

I know she did some tests for oxalate as organic acid test and it was positive. Her diet was very rich in oxalates, then drastically reduced on carnivore diet and oxalate dumping started.
Leek Medium per 1/2 cup (raw), Macadamia 47 mg oxalate per 1/2 cup, nutritional yeast are very low, black tea is high oxalate (most herbal teas are low), beer is low oxalate.

#27 · January 15, 2020, 4:27 am

Quote from Jenny on January 15, 2020, 4:27 am
Thank you @bludicka for all this useful information. Last week I watched & read quite a bit about oxalates after finding a Sally Norton link on Garrett Smith’s network. This led me to some videos by Elliot Overton on Youtube & I think he does quite a good job of explaining. I think one of his videos is linked in a Hormonesmatter article too that I maybe saw on here (it’s all a blur!). Anyway, I feel I learnt lots of useful information & reading this thread has just added to this.

I did a little summary on Garrett Smith’s Facebook as to how I thought oxalates could relate to vA detox. I think that @bludicka has covered these points already but in case it is of any use I’ll add here:

‘As I mentioned in my question last week I’ve been down the oxalate rabbit hole. I thought it may be useful to quickly summarise how I think oxalates relate to the vA detox. Oxalates are a plant toxin. As with vitamin A, the body can cope with a certain amount but unlike vitamin A, oxalates are not metabolised by the liver but go straight to the kidneys. 80% of kidney stones are calcium oxalate. Excess is also stored elsewhere in the body (sometimes as shards of glass like crystals). I can think of three ways that oxalates could relate to vA detox:
1. If someone has been eating a diet high in ‘super’ foods such as spinach, sweet potatoes & beets, they could have a high amount of oxalates stored in the body. If they start the vA detox & remove these foods they could experience an ‘oxalate dump’ which is said to be very nasty. If people’s diets have been high in high oxalate foods then a slow reduction of 20% a week is recommended.
2. Although the vA diet removes many of the worst oxalate foods there are a few that are high & therefore I don’t think one would want to base one’s diet around these & eat an excess e.g. almonds & buckwheat. The recommended amount is no more than 150-200mg of oxalates per day. Don’t want to remove one problem & add another!
3. Our bodies also produce endogenous oxalates & this production increases with B1 (&B6) deficiency. Another reason why avoiding B1 deficiency is important.
These facts were gathered from work by Sally Norton, Elliot Overton & Susan Owens’.

Thank you @bludicka for all this useful information. Last week I watched & read quite a bit about oxalates after finding a Sally Norton link on Garrett Smith’s network. This led me to some videos by Elliot Overton on Youtube & I think he does quite a good job of explaining. I think one of his videos is linked in a Hormonesmatter article too that I maybe saw on here (it’s all a blur!). Anyway, I feel I learnt lots of useful information & reading this thread has just added to this.

I did a little summary on Garrett Smith’s Facebook as to how I thought oxalates could relate to vA detox. I think that @bludicka has covered these points already but in case it is of any use I’ll add here:

‘As I mentioned in my question last week I’ve been down the oxalate rabbit hole. I thought it may be useful to quickly summarise how I think oxalates relate to the vA detox. Oxalates are a plant toxin. As with vitamin A, the body can cope with a certain amount but unlike vitamin A, oxalates are not metabolised by the liver but go straight to the kidneys. 80% of kidney stones are calcium oxalate. Excess is also stored elsewhere in the body (sometimes as shards of glass like crystals). I can think of three ways that oxalates could relate to vA detox:
1. If someone has been eating a diet high in ‘super’ foods such as spinach, sweet potatoes & beets, they could have a high amount of oxalates stored in the body. If they start the vA detox & remove these foods they could experience an ‘oxalate dump’ which is said to be very nasty. If people’s diets have been high in high oxalate foods then a slow reduction of 20% a week is recommended.
2. Although the vA diet removes many of the worst oxalate foods there are a few that are high & therefore I don’t think one would want to base one’s diet around these & eat an excess e.g. almonds & buckwheat. The recommended amount is no more than 150-200mg of oxalates per day. Don’t want to remove one problem & add another!
3. Our bodies also produce endogenous oxalates & this production increases with B1 (&B6) deficiency. Another reason why avoiding B1 deficiency is important.
These facts were gathered from work by Sally Norton, Elliot Overton & Susan Owens’.

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#28 · July 17, 2020, 7:13 am

Is sorghum and brown rice high in oxalates? I am trying to keep oxalates low. What is interesting buckwheat should have the highest content of oxalates from all grains. But when I eat buckwheat groats cooked or pancakes from flour I don't feel any oxalates on my teeth like from beans, spinach, cocoa or any oxalate high foods.. Maybe it is because buckwheat is high in magnesium so those oxalates are already bound with that mineral?

#29 · July 17, 2020, 8:48 am

oh, thanks for that notion, raspberry time is here, just looked them up and they have oxalates, and my teeth do feel a bit weird.

#30 · July 17, 2020, 9:27 am

@lil-chick I think that feeling on teeth after eating foods high in oxalates is basically that oxalate crystals get stuck in there.. Maybe they are even trying to bind with calcium in teeth.. 🙂 I feel it the most with spinach, kidney beans and chocolate. They are all really high in oxalates.. My biggest source of oxalates is buckwheat. I can't stop eating buchwheat pancakes. 😀 But it is not too bad like 230mg of oxalate for 100g... If the rest of my diet has not high oxalate foods. I think it is ok.. But people who eat cocoa, spinach, kale, sweet potatoes, a lot of nuts like almonds etc.. Like Paleo people eat insane amounts of oxalates..

Oxalate content - grains, legumes, nuts and seeds

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