I needed to disable self sign-ups because I’ve been getting too many spam-type accounts. Thanks.
Oxalates and Salicylates
This vitamin A detox reads very similar to the Oxalate detox pattern. You want to detox them but its dangerous to do it too fast. Your body will (allegedly) periodically dump causing symptoms at random and will continue to do so for months /years. In my health quest I've been around many fields of elimination started with salicyltes, then oxalates, then histamine, went carnivore then Keto.
This is the latest possibility I have found that could help me. I am looking at it as I have come from a Keto, high egg, wild salmon, avocado and liver background. This actually helped my inflammation but I have had non stop peeling lips for 6 months and happened upon vitamin A as a possible explanation.
Straight away I tried green grapes and strawberries which are low in Vitamin A but experienced inflammation within minutes (these were a problem years ago for me during testing and retesting has reaffirmed this). So salicylates remain a problem for me in spite of low vitamin A. I wonder will other food intolerances go away if I detox vitamin A. I was actually on Accutane twice in my 20's (now 48) but didn't really notice any lingering side effects. I wonder is it possible that it has had an effect on my liver stores or indeed somehow impaired vitamin A metabolism?
Point is, there are so many toxins in plants that you may not be experiencing vitamin A dumping, you could be reacting to something else as I do with salicylates and as others do with Oxalates.
Hi Neilky,
I spent some time experimenting with sals and amines (and all sorts of other things) I kind of hope that the vitamin A withdrawal helps with all of these sensitivities as the tissues of the body become stronger. Maybe it's the granddaddy? 🙂 who knows.
Oxalates are more aggressive in detox if your diet is very low in oxalates and you are quite toxic, vitamin A detox is a slower continuous process... with occasional worsening for 2-3 days... (sunbathing for 5 days was not the best idea, I stopped it completly) Fortunately, I had no problems with salicylates, in the past with histamins, I had many sensitivities when I had heavy metal poisoning and MCS - multiple chemical sensitivity, they completely disappeared. Many people with heavy metals have oxalate and salicylate problems....
Detox pattern and "dumping" is similar for many toxins....When I was mercury toxic I was super sensitive to high thiol-sulfur foods, little garlic and the mercury was mobilized from the tissues, three years I had low thiol diet, when I was copper toxic, I was super sensitiv to copper foods, a handful of almonds and I was ill and toxic.... With oxalate dumping I was sensitiv to oxalate foods.. with VA toxicity I am sensitive to VA foods....I'm constantly on some diet for the last 10 years. And this vitamin A story may take at least another one - two years and I hope that it will be the last and I won't find any other toxin, that would probably kill me.
Heavy metals, oxalates, copper, I am not sure about vitamin A are as toxic leaving the body as they were coming in and storing into the body, therefore the detox is painful, only some supplements, foods can help the body during dumping, open the detox pathways, protect the body from the oxidative stress, adrenal, liver, kidney support, infrared sauna, body brushing, coffe enema - very helpful for me during copper detox... and proteins are very important for detox.
After three months on low VA diet I realized I had to be really very restrictive with the diet otherwise progress will be very slow, no fruits, only occasionally peeled apple, no chickpeas etc.
I can very well distinguish which symptoms make oxalates, mercury detox, copper detox, histamins and vitamin A... because I've been dealing with it for years (and I had no idea three years ago that I have vitamin A and oxalate problems, there was always something "more acute") but I can imagine that this toxic mix can be confusing to many people and I think many people have problems not only with vitamin A toxicity. E.g copper toxicity is also very common, because of stress and many people have weak exhausted adrenals, zinc and mineral depletion... especially in women due to estrogen is very common.
"At the Princeton Brain Bio Center, where serum heavy metal concentrations are routinely assayed, only three cases of hypocupremia have been documented from over twenty-five thousand patients treated, and these were precipitated by excessive zinc ingestion. In contrast, 64% of all female patients and 37% of all male patients exhibited copper intoxication and subsequent zinc deficiency in 1982. From a clinical standpoint, it is these symptoms and signs with which the physician should be familiar." [64](Note: Ample evidence exists to suggest the prevalence of copper toxicity today far exceeds that seen in the 80s).
And this is a very good parallel to vitamin A toxicity:
"They will also likely come across the slew of online articles out there that ad nauseam promote the idea of copper deficiency and associated symptoms - yet very few of those authors understand that most copper deficiency in the West is actually caused by copper toxicity! And that distinction makes a world of difference - the difference between leading the public to believe that more copper consumption will do them well, instead of helping people understand that too much copper exposure is at the root of many of their health symptoms. True dietary copper deficiency in the West is rare. "
I'm starting to think that these toxicities are somehow related, the capacity of the body to excrete toxins is limited, the body, mainly liver is overtaxed with other toxins - heavy metals, copper, oxalates, the body is then low in retinol-binding proteins and the free VA is toxic or is low in ceruloplasmin and free unbound copper is toxic, both of these proteins are made mainly in the liver....
Very informative, thanks. I'm just coming off a few months on Keto and I have turned to potatoes but they have a high oxalate and copper profile. Maybe not such a good idea. I had been experiencing persistent blurred vision on Keto and I have no idea why, carbs fixed this. Otherwise I felt good!
I am eating potatoes, they are ok for me - but not chips and fries, they are too concentrated and contain more oxalate, nuts, seeds and grains are more problematic from oxalate and copper perspektive. If you are feeling quite good you can't be toxic, or not too much... because with only one single toxicity one feels pretty miserable and with a combination of multiple toxicity - my case, you are practically in a vegetative state and just survive - I am feeling much better now, for me the symptoms of vitamin A detox are not at all dramatic, mercury and copper were much worse. Blurred vision - it was a symptom of oxalate dumping and VA toxicity for me.
Whether you have vitamin A toxicity or not ... you can try low VA diet, certainly not more complicated than keto and carnivore....
"I had been experiencing persistent blurred vision on Keto and I have no idea why, carbs fixed this"
Some people are hypothyroid on keto and carnivore diet, especially if you have problems with thyroid... and worsened vision is one of the symptoms.
Quote from bludicka on July 8, 2019, 11:56 amI am eating potatoes, they are ok for me - but not chips and fries, they are too concentrated and contain more oxalate, nuts, seeds and grains are more problematic from oxalate and copper perspektive. If you are feeling quite good you can't be toxic, or not too much... because with only one single toxicity one feels pretty miserable and with a combination of multiple toxicity - my case, you are practically in a vegetative state and just survive - I am feeling much better now, for me the symptoms of vitamin A detox are not at all dramatic, mercury and copper were much worse. Blurred vision - it was a symptom of oxalate dumping and VA toxicity for me.
Whether you have vitamin A toxicity or not ... you can try low VA diet, certainly not more complicated than keto and carnivore....
Thanks Bludicka.. very interesting on the oxalate dumping affecting vision . I had been eating a lot of chips (and dark chocolate) before going keto. Maybe that is my main problem with the vision but it does get better when I include carbs possibly because the eye prefers glucose for energy. I also notice my floaters get way more noticeable on keto. Historically I also used to eat a lot of trail mix and my skin got really sensitive and I put it down to the huge nut / raisin intake.
When I say I felt good, I'm actually singling out my main issue which is joint inflammation. The only reason I gave up keto is because my blurred vision was getting worse and energy was nose diving. I'm in and out of Keto quite a lot and my vision always improves with carbs. My brain fog and mental energy is poor regardless of diet or sleep success. I can do a full 8 hours and still wake up tired.
It was the persistent peeling lips that flagged VA. I had the usual B and iron tests to see if anything showed up but all good there. I'm on day 3 of a reduced VA diet and my lips aren't peeling. Early days on that as I sometimes would get a rest bite for a day or 2.
Out of interest, is it the boiling of potato that effectively dilutes the oxalate into the water? I had been airfrying chips. I might divert to rice as I'm not a fan of boiled potato!
Quote from bludicka on July 8, 2019, 12:09 pm"I had been experiencing persistent blurred vision on Keto and I have no idea why, carbs fixed this"
Some people are hypothyroid on keto and carnivore diet, especially if you have problems with thyroid... and worsened vision is one of the symptoms.
That's the only other thing I am aware of that it could be. It always takes a few days for the vision to get better after I reintroduce carbs and I always wondered why that would be if it was a simple glucose issue.
I know small red potatoes are low oxalate and boiling allows some of the soluble oxalate to leach into the water.
Every time I started with a new treatment strategy such as vitamin D supplementation and I was deficient, magnesium supplementation or low oxalate diet, low VA diet...., I had ALWAYS "honeymoon period" for 2-4 days... I felt much better, it looks like the body is finally getting what it needs... and then it startet slowly saturation (with vitamins, minerals) or repair and detox... and I felt worse for a long time and then slowly better and better... It happens now with this low VA diet.
So if you feel on this low VA diet the first days really well, so it's a good sign.
"It always takes a few days for the vision to get better after I reintroduce carbs and I always wondered why that would be if it was a simple glucose issue."
I didn't know there was a link between keto, low glucose and blurred vision, some people write that it takes some time and the eyes will improve.
Maybe it's a glucose problem and your eyes need some time to adjust? After you reintroduce carbs.
"Whether you are diabetic or not this quick swing in blood glucose can affect the tiny veins in the retina and cause the type of blurring" https://www.ketogenicsupplementreviews.com/blog/blurred-vision-on-keto/