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Parasites! worms! (asking for a low-VA friend)
Hi Guys,
Could reducing intake of high-VA plants (and high veg-toxin plants in general) open you up to *MORE* parasitical infections?
Once the Naturopath said to me: what plant on earth has no medicinal usages? I shrugged, and he said: THEY ALL DO
Plant's immune system are chemicals.... designed to help protect them from bugs, worms, bacteria, fungus, sunlight
When we ingest or otherwise use these plants we are getting some of that same benefit.
I think Joe mentioned that Andrew posted a link to a study saying vitamin A was related to gut health in some manner. I can't find that link right now. Could this be why? Could it be because it IS a weapon? Weapons can be dangerous and I could see how it might harm too. Many drugs have bad side effects.
It's traditional to have some veg toxins in the diet. Especially in tropical climates.
Edited to cut to the chase: "I think this thread has calmed me down about worrying that VA might be important in keeping parasite loads down. But I do think that OTHER plant poisons might be important, and traditional. Such as those in spices and herbs and traditional parasite remedies. Thanks for the participation here!"
It also occurs to me that a low VA person can also turn to non-VA cures such as ivermectin or diatomaceous earth. Any ideas here?
I'm going to ping on @tim-2
Because I know I've seen him comment about parasitical infections before. Hopefully he will have some ideas for my friend.
My low-VA friend has seen worms in the feces and the standard MD's seem to not be very helpful. The equivalent of: doc closes eyes, puts hands over ears and says: "lalalalala"
I like where you are going with this. Yes I could see vitamin A being used as a weapon. It was very very enlightening to see an original study on an infant with apparent vitamin A blindness was not blind because it somehow destroyed the retina (as many would be led to believe by the name!), but because the oil glands were destroyed and another study showed the glands only get destroyed in vitamin A deficiency if there was an infection. If we can't produce the oil the tears evaporate and cause scarring of the cornea. The infant also had fluid in the lungs indicating some level of infection and she also had a fever before death. That doesn't mean that being low in vitamin A actually causes the infection though.
In an an environment that's ultra clean and pasteurized I wouldn't expect there to be much parasite pressure though. I have been a fan of sanitation since being anti-vax because it's clear looking at the graphs that infectious disease dropped significantly after the advent of plumbing. So I'd rather poor communities be given access to clean water, mosquito netting, and sewage treatment rather than vaccines and pesticides. I think ivermectin would be safe to use if there are nasty parasites, but some say our lack of parasites causes other problems.
Quote from lil chick on August 30, 2024, 1:01 pmMy low-VA friend has seen worms in the feces and the standard MD's seem to not be very helpful. The equivalent of: doc closes eyes, puts hands over ears and says: "lalalalala"
She should ask her doctor to order a stool for ova and parasites test. It would also be helpful to actually collect some of what she describes as worms in the containers they provide for the test. If she has been drinking untreated water while camping or visiting a country not known for consistent water treatment and sanitation she might have parasites. I don't think Vitamin A protects anyone from parasites.
Strange, I didn't get a notification from that tag, I just happened to check this thread and saw it.
Visible fecal worms normally indicates pinworm infection. Pinworm infection isn't a big deal AFAIK and can even reduce autoimmunity.
Could reducing intake of high-VA plants (and high veg-toxin plants in general) open you up to *MORE* parasitical infections?
I'm not aware of carotenoids or retinoids expressing much anti parasitic activity. Is there any evidence that they do?
Avoiding carrots, sweet potato, pumpkin and spinach probably won't make one more susceptible IMO. Being stricter, which I don't recommend, avoiding herbs as well as a broader range of medium carotene containing foods could make one more susceptible.
Growing white carrots is probably a good idea because carrots are a healthy food minus the carotene.
Eating vegetables raw will significantly increase risk of parasitic infection.
In the gut, protozoa like blastocystis and giardia tend to be the most problematic.
In the gut some helminths like hookworm are symbiotic. Outside the gut helminths like liver fluke and pork tapeworm are very problematic.
Some anti parasitical herbal medicine can reduce liver fluke but triclabendazole is what is needed to clear an infection. That's why I don't support the use of triclabendazole in farming because it promotes resistance in liver fluke.
I wouldn't take ivermectin or anthelmintic herbal medicine lightly, they could cause liver injury.
There's a guy over on the ray peat forum who takes ivermectin all the time because it increases GABA, that's ridiculous!!! Of course now he's dependent on it to get the same effect like any other drug.
I wonder if Grant has any parasite infections being he's avoided all spices, veggies and herbs for many yrs.
I once had a nagging dry cough from a sickness it was keeping me awake all night so finally I boiled some onions and put them on my chest. It completely cleared it up. Old folk remedies rock! But now I haven't been sick in over a yr. since really working on my health.
Quote from lil chick on August 30, 2024, 12:51 pmIt also occurs to me that a low VA person can also turn to non-VA cures such as ivermectin or diatomaceous earth. Any ideas here?
I'm going to ping on @tim-2
Because I know I've seen him comment about parasitical infections before. Hopefully he will have some ideas for my friend.
Ivermectin is a toxin. Slow kill infertility and neurological problems.
Quote from lil chick on August 30, 2024, 12:47 pmHi Guys,
Could reducing intake of high-VA plants (and high veg-toxin plants in general) open you up to *MORE* parasitical infections?
Once the Naturopath said to me: what plant on earth has no medicinal usages? I shrugged, and he said: THEY ALL DO
Plant's immune system are chemicals.... designed to help protect them from bugs, worms, bacteria, fungus, sunlight
When we ingest or otherwise use these plants we are getting some of that same benefit.
I think Joe mentioned that Andrew posted a link to a study saying vitamin A was related to gut health in some manner. I can't find that link right now. Could this be why? Could it be because it IS a weapon? Weapons can be dangerous and I could see how it might harm too. Many drugs have bad side effects.
It's traditional to have some veg toxins in the diet. Especially in tropical climates.
Plenty of folk on Lover Your Liver network with parasites going away on their own. (Gory pictures too as they pass.) As the bile recipe improves, the bile gets into the GI tract and does its job. Gut flora and fauna improve and parasites / pathogens are passed out of the system.
Meanwhile, are we getting parasites or are we getting vitamin A toxicity from eating pork? Or both?
Quote from Janelle525 on August 30, 2024, 1:03 pmI like where you are going with this. Yes I could see vitamin A being used as a weapon. It was very very enlightening to see an original study on an infant with apparent vitamin A blindness was not blind because it somehow destroyed the retina (as many would be led to believe by the name!), but because the oil glands were destroyed and another study showed the glands only get destroyed in vitamin A deficiency if there was an infection. If we can't produce the oil the tears evaporate and cause scarring of the cornea. The infant also had fluid in the lungs indicating some level of infection and she also had a fever before death. That doesn't mean that being low in vitamin A actually causes the infection though.
In an an environment that's ultra clean and pasteurized I wouldn't expect there to be much parasite pressure though. I have been a fan of sanitation since being anti-vax because it's clear looking at the graphs that infectious disease dropped significantly after the advent of plumbing. So I'd rather poor communities be given access to clean water, mosquito netting, and sewage treatment rather than vaccines and pesticides. I think ivermectin would be safe to use if there are nasty parasites, but some say our lack of parasites causes other problems.
What evidence is needed to diagnose an infant as vitamin A deficient? Would an old man be deficient by those standards after eating a vitamin A depleting diet for a decade?
Agree on the hygiene movement where Leicester proved your theory out during the early internal warfare over forced vaccines in England.
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